Is this accurate?
http://forums.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?5,1013777,1013867#msg-1013867

1. I think the dagger that went out a while back is actually stronger than the whip, but somehow most of its coolest bits weren't noticed as far as I can see.

2. Most of the whip-based discussion seems to involve people who have no idea what the relevant powers/spells do but declare them to be overpowered despite being completely incorrect about any relevant facts.

The timing of my tweaks has more to do with my vacation than people's forum frothing.

I'm pretty sure the vets know exactly what muddle/confuse work. Here is a snip of an affect list from a log on Dio's.

Power: 'favor of the sun' modifies mental resistance by 38 for 31 hours.
Physical effect: 'feeblemind' modifies wisdom by -10 for 22 hours.
Physical effect: 'feeblemind' modifies intelligence by -10 for 22 hours.
Skill: 'warcry' modifies save vs spell by -12 for 22 hours.
Power: 'harmony' modifies wisdom by 1 for 18 hours.
Spell: 'muddle' for 11 hours.
Commune: 'ethos protection' for 11 hours.
Commune: 'detect invis' for 11 hours.
Spell: 'fear' for 9 hours.
Commune: 'protective shield' for 4 hours.
Commune: 'sanctuary' for 4 hours.
Commune: 'frenzy' modifies armor class by 40 for 4 hours.
Physical effect: 'cabal raid' modifies morale by 13 for 4 hours.
Power: 'windwalk' for 2 hours.
Power: 'windwalk' for 2 hours.
Spell: 'mental jolt' modifies intelligence by -6 for 0 hours.

muddled for 11 hrs
fear for 9 hrs
feeblemind/mental jolt as well

Now, I don't know if its the whip that progs parting blow, or if he was given the actual skill - frankly I don't care.

I remember when entropy went away, and we all rejoiced because everyone knew it was just a bunch of powergamers abusing dopple/muddle/confuse for PK, and it was never the #### 'elite rp' group it was claimed to be. Interacting with those chaos chars was often painful, getting PK'd by one was infuriating based on how debilitating their abilities were.

you basically took the 2 signatures powers that made the chaos cabal OP and plugged them into a weapon..combined with mental jolt and potentially parting blow.

You are surprised that people are complaining about this?

What happened to "We will scale back rewards" Since that statement, we've seen two quest forms and this whip.

It seems like this time around, you realized it was OP and took action - this is a much better response than the norm.

I know you dislike it when I say "The playerbase" so, I will say "People"

People have continually asked that you (the staff, not you specifically) stop handing out RP rewards that affect the actual PVP balance of the game.

You (again, the staff not you) had said you would honor this request, and have..flip-flopped on that decision?

Honestly sect leader powers are arguably some of the most powerful in the game, not to mention emperor powers. I don't see "why" "someone" decided this specific character warranted uber-####-whip-o-power.

Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the game is bleeding players because of decisions such as this.

That is my feedback, read/react as you will and good luck.

I don't recall us ever saying that we would stop handing out PK-relavent rewards. I'm pretty sure you imagined that.

This is just one example of many in which you and I fundamentally disagree about the nature of reality.

I think what you are remembering is that they said no legacies/quest forms for role contest rewards (which they are keeping to). I don't remember them ever saying they were going to scale back pk relevant rewards. Honestly, if you did this game would become too predictable and boring.

This is possible, Basically the gist (which Daev very craftfully ignored to get in his 1 liner dig) is that a good portion of the playerbase is tired of RP rewards having such a HUGE affect on the PK aspect of the game. I don't need to argue on whether I am right or wrong....the declining playerbase is proof enough.

Actually, I really don't agree that it is proof. To think that the only or even main reason people are leaving the game is because of RP rewards is very short sighted. Those that got into CF in their younger years are at varying stages in their lives and careers where sometimes they have to back off. Sometimes people get burnt out, and sometimes new people join. I'm not going to pretend the numbers are great, but I don't think you can so easily claim what the factor that is doing it.

Regarding RP rewards providing PK advantages - I really don't understand how this makes everyone so mad. I generally don't whine about them, and even if I do it is half-hearted. Mostly, I try to step up to be the next guy to get them!

Well, here is the thing. I posted a goodbye on the other forums with this in it, and it will probably fall on deaf ears here, but I will try to put forth what I believe is a huge problem.

You're right. This style of rewarding is nothing new.

What is new, is we have a LOT less players.

I had to fight vs Ahtieli, and sure I complained - it was hard, and I never beat him. However: there were enough players online at peak/the hours he played to be a threat to him, and that kind of counter-balanced his being "OP" somewhat.

Now, you've generally got less than 20 people on during a weeknight. Sometimes less than 10. If you have a hero range of 3, and one of them is billy-badass overewarded character and the other 2 guys are folks that cannot mechanically "team up" that is pretty much a broken funstick.


The decreased playerbase DEFINITELY exaggerates the OP factor of these rewards. Because, there just aren't the anti-super OP gank #'s around REGULARLY anymore.

This whip probably isn't a problem in a diverse hero PK Range of 20 or so

It is DEFINITELY a problem in today's small/limited/bandwagon hero range.

I mean #### man..a spade is a spade, and you guys have logs from your own hand-chosen CABAL LEADERS (epitomy of RP/Best in the game due to title) saying its ####.

The admin team can of course, ignore these posts (as they have done historically) but, I believe that will only contribute to a quicker demise of CF

Or, They can maybe..I dunno..hold a Poll and ASK the playerbase what they'd like to see. Who knows, I could be wrong..but I seriously...seriously doubt that the results of such said poll would be 'that whip is awesome, more please'

There's a poll on the facebook page right now. So far maybe one of the responses half agrees with you.

You and Nepenthe obviously don't agree all the time...

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=52974&mesg_id=53022&page=

I appreciate you taking the time to set up a poll on this. I posted my .02$ along with the others. I like the fact that you did create a poll though, as it does show you want feedback. And, it will probably come in a form much better than this flame-thread.

Honestly I don't know why I need to set up facebook to talk about *this* game when I have an account *here* lol.

Sorry about that. :)

But I've been on that soapbox since before Iunna deleted.

Surely you have some idea of how terrible the logic you're abusing is.

In other news, the sun didn't explode this morning, therefore I'm right about everything now and forever, because those things are totally related.

Nice distraction.

What I wrote is an opinion, as opinions cannot ever be wrong yes, I guess I am right that my opinion is RP based rewards that affect PVP are bad.

I am also likely right that others share this opinion with me.

And, I can also say the following truthfully.

"I have never cheated at a game that I administer."

Can you?

Yes. You're completely missing the point.

Basically, you perpetually start with the conclusion you want and then work backwards, choosing facts you like and ignoring ones which contradict that conclusion. Ideally, you would start with the facts instead.

Edit to add: the promise of no mechanical rewards thing is the perfect example - you're actually angry that we didn't live up to a promise we didn't make. I have to think some part of you can grasp the utter insanity of that.

Who wins in the theoretical CF Cold War arms race?

I don't think there actually is one.

But I do not agree in the slightest.
It is a good reason to RP well.
I would not say RP rewards have a huge impact on the game.
But they should have some impact. Should a warrior get a third legacy if they are really well RP'd, hellz yes. Should they get a Quest form, quest spell, quest skill, a custom piece of equipment? Yes, I would say that any character that is really well RP'd should get cool stuff. You do not have to agree. I am not asking you to. But that is part of the game I enjoy. So why break parts of the game that are actually fun for some players?

I wonder if it is that you do not want to put that kind of effort into the game and therefore you think it is unfair that someone else who does gets some sort of reward out of it. Because that is the only logical explanation I can think of as to why. But without rewarding good RP you are left with just another PK mud where morons run around with little to no RP. Sorry, I do not think your argument is valid at all. And I am not that sorry.

A declining playerbase has little to do with that. People get tired of any game. Even the best games have a declining playerbase over time. Look at all major MMO games. They hit a peak then slowly decline from there. Are there still people who play WOW? Yes. Are they all the baddies? Yes. XD It is amazing we have a playerbase at all for a niche game like this.

Should a warrior get a third legacy if they are really well RP'd?

Whose definition of RP are we using? Cabal IMMs? Players? Dio's denizens who don't even play (like me!)?

How about this? Just try to RP and have fun. You have IMMs constantly saying "Don't play for IMM rewards or attention" but then they consistently #### all over that statement with their actions.

I really hate the amount of doublespeak that goes on (and IMMs aren't alone, those miscreants on the other unofficial forum are just as bad). We're not ####ing idiots, please stop treating us like we are.

So, what, with all of the cool items, skills, spells, forms, etc in the game, no one should ever get them for anything? No one should EVER get a third legacy or virtue? Greater conjuring? Quest form? One of the set of AP weapons that has apparently been made to be given out as a quest form like reward to AP's?

The hell with that. CF instantly becomes a much more boring game if all anyone can ever be is vanilla warrior, vanilla shifter, etc etc, no matter how well they might do in roleplay or pk. This goes back to what Daev said about what some people hate being what other people love; I don't mind getting my ass kicked by a certain item or skill or spell, because A) I don't try to win CF, and the ways I enjoy playing CF don't revolve around being unkillable or necessarily always having a chance to kill someone else in a straight 1 v 1 battle, and B) Seeing other people with cool rewards is also cool for me, because I know that I can also get that reward.

I don't get pissed when Jack Blaguar or some quest reward AP weapon kicks my ass. I just think to myself how I can overcome that, and that the next time I roll a shifter I should really try to run a well played character so that I can get the same.

You and a few others don't feel that way. That's fine. But not everyone feels like pk ratios and being able to always win against everyone 1 v 1 are the end all/be all of a fun game. The words "silent minority" come to mind here.

It's also ridiculous to blame declining numbers on stuff like this. We're playing a text based roleplaying game in the year 2013. I'd say the average age of the playerbase at this point has to be over 30. I think lessoning timesink requirements would be a good thing, given the lesser abilities of an actual grownass adult with family and responsibilities to sit and put in 3-5+ hours a day into a game, but "OP" rewards that have, generally, been given to well played characters since CF began? That's not the problem, at least not for the vast majority.

Also, I'd just like to state my appreciation for your continual torrent of ####posts around here, Sam. I know you don't play anymore, you only mention it on about a weekly basis, but it really helps make the game look good to new people who might be checking it and the forums out to have people such as yourself going on and on and on and on about how unfun and ####ty the game is. Thanks for that, I know how much effort it must take for you, to make these posts when you don't play anymore and don't want to. It's just what a normal person would do.

...but I actually want to help CF.

As a consumer, the only way I can make my opinion heard is through my wallet. Thus, if the only way I feel I can influence CF in any way is by continuing to harp on the fact that I (and many others) no longer play, than you know what, that's what I am going to ####ing do. I won't apologize for that nor let you or anyone else bully me into shutting up.

I've offered many constructive ideas and solutions to a wide-range of problems. Most of the time, it's met with crickets.

Also, if it were me, I'd be asking my customers what they want more. And I love the pre-written response to this. "Sam, you're ####ing retarded, different players always want different things". Well, yes, but you need to look at the reason they want these things and seek to change the culture not the behavior.

I have a lot of great ideas (and some have been implemented so it's not just me who thinks this!) and some of them have even been considered OP!

Edited to add counter-points to some valid points you made:

1) Just because a bunch of mobs in the game do cool #### doesn't mean the players should be able to do it. It's been that way on every game in the history of ever.

2) CF had a majority of these cool skills/spells 10 years ago...WHERE WERE ALL THE QUEST #### THEN...oh right, there wasn't much, and yet there were 100 people and 10 active IMMs.

3) This ####ing SLAYS me: "because A) I don't try to win CF," RIGHT BEFORE "I don't get pissed when Jack Blaguar or some quest reward AP weapon kicks my ass. I just think to myself how I can overcome that, and that the next time I roll a shifter I should really try to run a well played character so that I can get the same."

You do realize, you just said something along the lines of "I don't try to win, but when I see someone who wins, I try to do the same thing as them".

...

...

4) "But not everyone feels like pk ratios and being able to always win against everyone 1 v 1 are the end all/be all of a fun game."

You have me mistaken with someone else. I love that CF has gangs, and characters that can't be killed 1 v 1 depending on your class/race matchup. I played too many village berserkers not to feel this way.

I do however worry that a culture that creates a system of appeasement will eventually led to the annexation of Poland scenario (would it be AR in this analogy...how ####ing cool would that be? Strike that...I want CF to annex some other MUD!). And that's what we are on now.

5) "but "OP" rewards that have, generally, been given to well played characters since CF began?"

Not really. At times, rewards like Leader Weapons, titles, tattooes, long desc's were given to well played characters. Eventually we all got sick of Lightmage being so much better than the rest of us that we bitched and bitched to the IMMs about wanting rewards that now we are the ####ing ghost in the machine.

6) "Sam. I know you don't play anymore, you only mention it on about a weekly basis,"

I wish I could post on a weekly basis. Change that to monthly and you're closer to the truth.

7) "thanks for that, I know how much effort it must take for you, to make these posts when you don't play anymore and don't want to."

Actually, it would take a whole ####load less time and effort to just never visit this website again. But you know, I actually really care about this game (I have wasted at least 2000 hrs on it as well) and I want to see it succeed and thrive.

8) "It's also ridiculous to blame declining numbers on stuff like this."

I never said this is the reason we have 15 players on during certain peak hours. I did say this has driven me and at least 4 other players away though. And most of the 4 are WAAAAAAAAAAAY better than me at CF.

'6) "Sam. I know you don't play anymore, you only mention it on about a weekly basis,"

I wish I could post on a weekly basis. Change that to monthly and you're closer to the truth.'


...things are becoming quite clear.

nt

When I say I don't try to win CF, I mean that I'm okay with not going 200-0, being leadered and tattooed, with Silent Tower and Hell gear on every character. I'm okay with taking punches in the mouth. I play the game with what it gives me.

So, no, it's not really as strange as you're making it out to be. I don't define winning the same way you do; as in, pk'ing other people. I don't see someone else getting a quest form and kicking ass with it as them winning CF. Because, ya know, you CAN'T win CF. That's kind of what that whole meme is about. I don't think someone who has a cool skill or spell and has killed me with it has won CF. I think they've pk'd me, and I've been pk'd before. I'll be pk'd again. Often it'll be my fault, sometimes it won't, but that some other well played character was able to kill me a little easier isn't really going to splash piss in my Cheerios.

When I say I get killed by something unique, and then say I want to have that unique thing, it's not because my number one goal is to use that unique thing in order to rule over the mud and rack up the pk numbers. It's because it sounds like fun. Getting a bulette form and seeing what it does, playing around with it, would be fun in much the same way as getting one of my dream shifter combos, things like cheetah-vulture, or croc-porcupine. It'd also be fun because, yeah, it'd be more powerful. But that's not the main reason. And frankly, I'm bad enough at PK that you could give me bulette/black jaguar and I'd still suck.

It's cool that a fun thing like that is available to players, and despite seeing and hearing some pretty shady rumors and whatnot, I'm still relatively certain that if I play a good character I've got at least a decent shot of getting something like that. Which, for now, is good enough for me.

I get that it's not good enough for you and your four friends. That's cool. It just gets kind of annoying to see people talking about this kind of thing "ruining CF forever" or some such #### and speaking as if their sentiments are that of the ENTIRE playerbase.

ETA - What's kind of amusing here is that I used to most definitely play to win CF, even though I wasn't remotely good enough to. What finally turned me off of that was when Ghrimriddor either killed my human Nexun transmuter Teltranix, or avoided getting killed, or something else similar to that. Anyway, I completely went off on you. Cursing, OOC, the whole bit. I cooled down within ten minutes and sent you a note to apologize, but it ruined the character for me and I deleted. And I looked at that experience and realized that I'd have much more fun if I didn't give a damn about my pk ratio, or my equipment, or anything but having a character to log into and have some fun with for a while, without placing expectations on the experience. I guess it's amusing because it was an interaction with you that gave me this outlook on the game that's so different from your's. Again, though, your opinion is your opinion and you're completely entitled to have it. I just wish you'd realize that it IS an opinion, not fact, and not everyone shares it.

"...and that the next time I roll a shifter I should really try to run a well played character so that I can get the same."

I don't really think that is realistic and maybe that's the problem. Let's assume there is 0% bias against players who don't agree with you or who have different styles than you. Let's further assume that the world is perfect and you get to absolutely watch 100% of every character the same amount and see every good and bad thing they do. Even with those two non-sense assumptions, I have a feeling that whatever criteria there is for developing these rewards behind the scenes isn't consistent or metrics driven. That is to say, some rewards are better than others *not even intentionally*.

So no, I don't think to myself, "Hey I can get the same thing" because it's not realistic. It's a lottery, one that I've never won in as long as I've played and plenty of other players of higher quality than me have never won in many years as well.

A lot of it boils down to fairness, transparency and consistency. And if you can't have all those things, it's probably better to limit the impact of your rewards.

And this by the way is the same logic I have for most of my arguments - arguments against death blow, arguments against frenzied uber elementals, etc. When it comes to RP and exploration - do whatever you want - but when it comes to player versus player - skill should be the real measuring stick. Not luck. Not rewards. If PVP isn't driven 100% by player skill, it becomes meaningless and if PVP is meaningless, that kills the game for me in a major way.

Your questions all answer themselves. I think you are yelling at me No, No, No. When really how you feel is not to far from what I am saying.

Yes, they should. For being reasonably long lived and well RP'd. It is a matter of incentive to RP and heighten what you put into the game. We play for the highs not the lows. Maybe you have forgotten that in your time not playing. The problem becomes when you EXPECT the reward or believe you DESERVE it when you do not.

We were talking about a 3rd Legacy for god sakes. It its not like they are giving a warrior ABS locations and wand useage.

It is pretty obvious when a character is well RP'd. It usually catches an Imm's attention. And yes, it should be up to them. They are the GM's. We all have our bad days but usually a good RP concept will shine through that. Even if it is not everyone's cup of tea.

It is not a bad thing to want rewards for your characters. It is a bad thing to only play for the rewards. To expect and whine about not getting the rewards.

Taking away one of the things people like about the game because YOU do not like it is a bad idea. Unless that part of the game undermines the entire game.

If you are said there would be no cool RP rewards, no imm quests, and no immteraction. I would have little to no incentive to RP better other than I really like my own character idea. I am sure that I am not the only one who enjoys shiny Imm RP rewards.

At the end of the day, yes. The whole point is to RP and have fun. Why don't you?

"Taking away one of the things people like about the game because YOU do not like it is a bad idea. Unless that part of the game undermines the entire game."

To be fair, if this guy was 400 hours old, leader of a cabal, with 7 con left and holding events all the time - I *might* be ok with this kind of reward.

I've got a few different characters. So I've fought this guy, killed this guy, died to this guy and been in the same cabal as this guy and from all sides, I didn't see *anything* special. That's not to say he's bad, or RPs bad, but having a good role and praying to the right imm seems a low and totally inconsistent bar for rewarding people and one that doesn't actually contribute to the game (you know, in terms of us other air breathers who are playing the game). I feel like any sort of mechanical reward should be contingent on people who are socializing with the rest of the mud - since we're supposed to be rewarding RP and RP between yourself and your Imm doesn't go very far towards making the game fun for everyone.

I might not have such a problem with these types of rewards if guys like Gedunthos got rewards like this instead of chars like Andira. I'm not going to cry favoritism, since my own chars have been rewarded as well (though, not in any sort of way that got me any kills) but it seems bizarre that great rewards like this go to some 100 hour old guy who doesn't particularly go out of their way to interact with you at all. And even my own rewards were purely role contest rewards on a char I wasn't otherwise happy with my RP performance on, so I probably didn't deserve jack either. And just so we're on the same page, I'm not saying that *I* am anything special either. I don't play for rewards and I don't expect any.

Then there's the fact that I don't think rewards should have the capability to muddle you, or make you unable to flee or spellcast - that's way too overpowered especially on an AP. The fact that the guy isn't Cabdru reborn (in terms of player skill) doesn't mean I want to have to fight against that sort of crap.

In short - I like that there are custom rewards in this game but I want the game to be fun and competitive and fair. Handing out rewards to guys under 100 hours or purely for role that heavily impact their PVP capabilities is bad for the rest of us. Keep it balanced and reasonable and scale the reward with their contribution to the game as a whole as opposed to just interactions with a single imm.

This specific situation yes.

I agree with you. I do not think things that have a chance to make you unable to move period should be added to an AP weapon. Even if it does not do it often, it is very OP. The rest of the effects I have no problem with. It is not that I do not mind fighting an AP with a cool prog'd whip. It is that the prog can make you not move at all for multiple rounds with no easy way to defend against the morale drop other than run screaming. If it just did some extra damage, or poison, or plague even. I would not care. With its effect is was almost like having a transmuter neuroing your opponent every once in a while.

But Cool rewards in general are a different story. This whip is the exception not the rule. And it sounds like Daevryn already toned it down a bit.

I still believe that a character that is reasonably long loved we are talking 300, 350, 400 hours should be eligible for such a reward. Anything sub 200 can still get rewards, just not these type of rewards. I am all for characters getting tattoos when that Imm feels they are ready/get the religion/do something cool. There are a whole bunch of rewards that can be given out before then like

n/t

Look at that affects list and tell me that you can call this a competitive game while handing stuff like that out to an imperial AP?

And yes I know what muddle and fear does.

Feeblemind I'm not aware of its effects, there's no helpfile so that probably shouldn't surprise you. Some people have said it stops spellcasting, not sure myself though since...again...there's no help file. Muddle and fear vs. a rager though for instance strikes me as a free win as a fire AP.

I'm sorry but a minor reward (like 23 dex->24 dex) is all that's needed. You don't need to create artificial and non-reproducible powerhouses.

I don't remember them ever saying they were going to scale back pk relevant rewards. Honestly, if you did this game would become too predictable and boring

I don't get this point of view. You can still PK without PK-relevant rewards. There's still the tension of wanting to engage but also not wanting to get stomped and lose your gear. Etc. Your comment seems to suggest the game would be significantly less enjoyable for you without the exercise of "gaming" a system designed to reward role-play to extract as much mechanical advantage as possible.

That most of the things went unnoticed because a felar AP with aura and shield and a dagger unholy had very few rounds with which to see anything except for the bleeding. I tried to add role entries about my confusion and RP ways to discover it's true nature but to no avail. Even discuss in the Inn with some svirf a way to mount the blade on a shaft to make it a spear.

I was left with a great looking weapon that, even when bloodlusted, with over 40 hitroll, never hit anyone with the ability to dodge and parry....or even monks or champion paladins for that matter, all the while using my cute brown felar noze to parry with. In the end I gave up using it and gave up trying to see what it did, if anything. So very frustrating.

Did you miss all the extra skills it gave you?

either that it was broken or that he didn't notice :P

nt

Edit: Just looked and have deleted all the Grezoosh logs.

Have to admit that I am usually pretty good at spotting extra skills from items.....maybe it was broken or maybe I was. I was just made up about having the shield spell anyway. Perma-shield saved my arse plenty times.

Makes an RP session in the giving/receiving of weapons/training for edges or legacies and specs or spells seem more appropriate. I made up that the shadows found me and offered me the dagger but in actual fact an Immortal just gave me it. I wouldn't be crying on my keyboard now if a shadow/demon/cool mob offered it to me and gave some hints as to it's use ;-{}

Going to cause more problems than it solves past this point.

I'll agree with that.

I think it's pretty clear at this point from the various polls that people who want mechanical rewards to go away are at best about a quarter of the people who cared to vote.

Neither side is really going to convince the other but maybe next time something like this rolls around people will be less quick to claim false populism.

Some of that's accurate, some of that isn't.

I have (NCR) tweaked a few things that, upon reflection, I think are most obnoxious about having to fight against this weapon. Its basic nature remains unchanged, however.

Having no idea who actually created the whip or knowing what the progs it really does are, I am going to say that some of the things posted there are probably related to the whip while others are not.

For as much as people seem to be complaining about that whip being OP, its like people are forgetting that the stats of it are public knowledge now because he was Pked and the info about it was posted. As soon as he turns into an stoppable wrecking ball who doesn't die for months on end, hell even going more than 10 days without a death in PK, I'll be more worried about the fact he might have received something too powerful.

It's the precedent that it sets. It raises the bar beyond what is reasonable. Just because it has been given to someone who isn't that great at PKing doesn't justify its creation. In the right hands, things get ugly real fast.

but since when does the imms admit their errors?

I was not complaining or bitching I did not say OP or anything similar. I was simply inquiring about the weapon.

cheers

its the fact other people are dying to the overpowered weapon by means they probably should not be. He also receives a power boost that they do not when they kill him. For example, getting controls.

2nd virtue, 3rd legacy, extra spec, some select chain sups/spells, barrier spell, shifter quest form (or even sand lizard depending), etc.

nt

It was OP when entropy had it and shocker - its OP as a weapon prog.

It allows people with no chasing skill to catch people that they normally wouldn't. On a class that can blind, deafen, and plague. It's kind of disgusting.

I remembered a long time ago when I thought bash was overpowered because it would consistently get me killed. I could have claimed at the time that it was his(random warrior with vuln weapons) better armor, or weapons that got me killed. But it was just that I was a newbie with no bash protection preps (or really any preps at all). I think the only thing here is that if this weapon has an easy counter to its affects it would be nice to know that in some fashion. Instead of being the newbie getting bashed to death over and over. But with flashy progs. ^_^

I wonder if -svm makes a difference.

> I think the only thing here is that if this weapon has an easy counter to its affects it would be nice to know that in some fashion

One hint is that it cares a lot about morale.

It's like Luck stat 2.0 lol.

This doesn't seem the least bit accurate to me, so it would be lovely if you'd like to clarify what you mean by that.

...Morale, much like the luck stat if I am not mistaken, is a stat very few people have a handle on. It's a non-intuitive stat (unlike say strength or damroll etc) and I'd be frankly shocked if a non-IMM understands the ins and outs of the stat.

I'm sure you can then see where that might bother a player such as myself?

Frankly morale has been a sore point for me for years. I have an idea that's it's a modifier for many skills and spells, I know it has an effect on skill learns and experience received. However I only know of vague ways to increase or decrease morale. Whereas if my character is constantly doing minimal damage I can change gear, increase weapon skill, getter higher average weapons, etc. For all I know having intrepid morale makes you act like you have haste (but #### if I actually know how to get morale that high short of always leading groups where no one dies or gets seriously maledicted).

I just think it's a slippery slope to keep increasing the difference between those haves versus the have-nots.

Things that seem to boost Morale.
1. Being in a group with fwiends!
2. Certain foods/drinks.
3. Certain spells - like inspiration.
4. Hamsah Prostitutes.
5. Taking and retrieving cabal items.

So what I got out of that is
1. Bring friends!
2. drink tasty beverages!
3. Eat tasty food.
4. Sleep with women?!?

Morale, generally, is not that huge. I think at most it's something like a 10% bonus to experience gains and it has zero effect on skill gains, parrying/dodging/damage/etc. or non-mental saves.

Edit: Add to that, probably 98% of skills/etc. don't care at all about morale. Stuff that does is usually teamwork stuff like rescue.

This is one unique item that cares a lot about it.

Morale is visible on score; even if you don't understand how to change your morale, I think it's reasonable to expect that you might be smart enough to figure out, "My morale is in the absolute basement and this weapon is really going to town on me. Maybe this isn't the best time for me to spam 10 bashes in and pray."

I've had that build in mind for at least my past 3 a-p's. Now everyone's going to be countering it before I can see if it works.

/bitter

nt

nt

I prayed asking for explanations for poor morale a number of times and never had a response. The particular example:

Tribunal holds the fetish, I face one shaman in PVP range who is attempting to kill outer and retrieve it. I repeatedly drive them off of the captain, they are fleeing from me but I cannot pursue into town. My guards are not dying, I'm releasing them when my guard call cool down comes up. I am successfully defending the cabal outer for 45 minutes - 1 hour. My morale continues to drop from insecure - anxious - distressed.

No specifically -morale effects are hitting me, I'm entering a room, blinding an opponent, guards rescue me, fight an enemy for 2 - 3 rounds before he flees. I'm being hit by plague, weaken, curse, blind etc. However I'm using a healer or curing these myself.

Why would my successful defense of our outer be draining my morale?

I want to believe you, I really do. Just like cranial!

But then I see this post:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=17&topic_id=20333&mesg_id=20343&page=

And this text:

"There was a undocument morale reducing affect on the repel henchmen edge doing this. I've removed it until someone like Daev can explain what the intention of that was. Zombies should be immune to morale affects anyway."

So morale affects charmies and how well an edge works, and THERE WAS UNDOCUMENTED WORK TO MAKE IT THAT WAY? THAT'S KINDA WEIRD....

Please don't act like something does nothing and then show in other areas that it is patently false. Do you even check your own code man?

It's something that's only relevant to mob autoassisting, which I would say actually us pretty niche. YMMV.

Thanks!

nt

CF is what it is now though.

I'd gladly expand on something that isn't clear

Your answer still sucks. As does any answer that takes the tone of "We don't care if it's OP not like dude is going 225-0 and if he does maybe we will change it".

It's also clear to me in regards to the actions of the entire staff (including those IMMs that deleted or quit) that instead of focusing on making things even you merely spin the absurd reward roulette wheel to level the scales (which is like taking a loan out to pay off existing debt...you're only making the problem worse). Fort has OP rewards? Let's give some Empire guys OP rewards.

It sucks and it reminds and reinforces my desire to not play.

Why don't the Imms create a "TMNS is right" button that you can push anytime you don't like something. This will submit a message, similar to a bug or typo report, to the server, which will then transmit a signal into the night sky of what appears to be a dirty ball-sack. This will let them know immediately that you didn't like something, so they can drop everything they're doing (including giving the wife the business, dishes, or CPR on a baby) and get it changed so you don't threaten to leave.

Or you could just realize that no one's going to make a change to a reward that's already been handed out without some concrete, measurable (think PK stats) data that shows it is truly over-powered.

>Or you could just realize that no one's going to make a change
>to a reward that's already been handed out without some
>concrete, measurable (think PK stats) data that shows it is
>truly over-powered.

You clearly didn't read Daev's post. Might want to take that foot out of your mouth bud.

.

Where's that button?

Your angst is unbearable. CF doesn't need a dark knight.

It's a game, a hobby, treat it as such or at least try not to poop on everyone else if you're unhappy.

The rock dude. The rock. See my hands, they are high above my head.

The rock.

Now be constructive or be quiet. I know you're more than capable of the former.