The reason I'd like to see assassins revamped is because they don't 'feel' like assassins to me and certainly don't feel like medieval times assassins to me at all unless we are talking medieval japan or something. They feel like ninjas, and in fact if I remember correctly back in the day they WERE ninjas (its the class I first picked when I started playing way back when) back when the class had hellfire.

When I think of assassins I think of someone who has a variety of ways to kill you. They can poison your food, shadow you until you are alone and stab you in the back, shoot you in a crowd of people from a distance with a well-placed arrow shot to the head, etc.

Basically certain paths of the thieves guild feel more 'assassiny' to me than the actual assassin class. I believe it would be a great revamp oif the skills were tailored to make the class feel more like a medieval assassin.

Some ideas:

Give assassins that ability that Etropy used to have to look like other players. Allows the assassin to get up close to you before striking - maybe make this a choice between this and hiding ala two different schools of assassination, one based in shadows (hiding) one based in subterfuge (the entropy thing)

Give assassins the poisoner path instead of thieves.

Per the 'arrow' thing, perhaps various ways to assasinate people from a distance? Obviously with a variety of restrictions to kerp it from being OP except in niche situations. For example..you can 'fire' an arrow from a room away but you have to be visible and in the same area, the target cant be fighting, you must be calm (i.e neither fighting nor recently in one, this would go great with the entropy power btw allowing a person to get close without making the target nervous for example while remaining visible. Perhaps some lag when you fire and you need some time to 'reload' your arrow if you want to try again.

All in all, you could have (like thieves) different schools for assassins (not as many) but perhaps instead of getting to mix and match skills like thieves do, you pick a school and eery skill you get from that point is tailored towards that style of assassination.

Shadow School (sneak up and assassinate like you have now)

Subterfuge (get close to target through trickery, and use skills to kill them without them even realizing the damage has been done, MALICE is perfect example of this!)

Distance (specializing in distance attacks)

Sounds like you want assassin renamed ninja or martial artist and a new class created.

For that matter thieves could be renamed rogues and an assassination path added. Unless you can flesh it out more I can't see how it would be a solid assassin revamp. The distance thing isn't going to happen (it's already extremely limited in CF for very good reasons) and doppleganger-based (the entropy power) subterfuge tree you mention doesn't seem like it would really make a lot of sense. What you're saying sounds cool and could work in a novel or a different game, but in CF you can't really kill people without them realizing what's going on. Not after the first 6 months of a new class. Pretty soon everyone will know exactly how malice works and it won't have that subterfuge element anymore.

I don't see why the distance thing can't happen as there are many abilities in the game that hit at a distance (shamans just got a few and you have 'call lightning' for example). Also you can look at distance not as a mechanical feature but as a core concept. Meaning not all 'distance' skills would involve being in a seperate room. For example 'poisondarts' would fit nicely in this path as is since poisondarts are a skill whose concept involves 'distance' from the target.

Also as for doppleganger I remember it being pretty effective even knowing people had it. There was definately an entropy anti-paladin (can't remember his name) who was killing lots of folks with it.

Anyways here is the fleshing out:

Basically except for a few things being moved around I figure everything stays the same until the 35th rank where right now assassins get the 'assassinate skill'. The major change would be getting rid of most of those special 'kicks' because only the 'shadow' path woiuld have kicks. The shadow path (minus a few skills) would most closely resemble the current setup.

Shadow path: Your 'ninja' assassinas, specializing in getting up close and personal and taking down their target through direct assassination attempts or combat. This is the assassin who will either bust through a window and kill everyone in the room to get their target or sneak into their bedroom past all their guards and slip a dagger through their back as they sleep.

35th - stalk/assassinate
36th plus - kicks and everything they have now.

Subterfuge: Your 'trickster' asssassins specializing in utilizing trickery and deception to fool the senses and leave a target open for highly debilitating and lethal skills. This is the assassin disguised as a trusted butler who slips poison in your drink and watches you die wothout ever actually fighting you.

35th - Doppelganger (lose hide?), Peek (no hiding), and Plant
36th plus (various poisons but definetly needs mind control)
40 plus - Something like 'malice' which can be applied without the target even knowing it happened until later.
40 plus - Ghost - an automatic skill takes you off the 'who' list when you use 'doppleganger'
40 plus - 'Finisher' A quick finishing blow, only usable if target is at writhing and only can be used when (not) in combat, can only be attempted once every few hours to open combat, if successful instantly kills target. (like disembowel with more restrictions)

Distance: Your 'distance' killing assassin who prefers methods that allow him to escape easily if their attempt fails. This is the 'JFK' assassin (lol) who sits and waits patiently for his target then makes their attempt. If they fail they have a variety of means to escape before the target can lock onto their location and give pursuit.

35th - Bow (lose daggers?) and Vanish (maybe have other two paths lose Vanish as an option?)

36th - Stalk and Arrowstrike (type) (assassination using a bow, various failed effects depending on type of arrows used) so for example you load your bow with 'razor' arrows and you try for the assassinate and fail, you still have a chance to leave them bleeding, etc.

40 plus Arrowshot - While using a bow, can attempt to fire at a fleeing target (like parting blow) or by specifying a target they can hit a person in the area but require some time (lag) to reload.

40 plus - Poisondarts (I'd make a few changes here - can be used while visible, and can be used in combat - perhaps leave every class with poisondarts but lift those two restrictions from 'distance' assassins).

40 plus - Hunter's Aim (Allows arrowstrike from a room away, slightly lowers chance of success on both assassination and failed effect, causes some lag while taking aim)

40 plus - Escape Route (Planning ahead to escape, the distance assassin can 'mark' a room to vanish to within the same area, greatly improving chances of vanishing to that exact spot.)

...and maybe it's not justified...is that assassins are very balanced and fun to play *right now*. I'm concerned that these changes would fall in line with some of the ranger and thief changes that create lots of "painful to play" or unviable builds rather than increasing the 'fun' factor for assassin players.

Legacies were great because they were in addition to everything a warrior could do. Same with shaman paths. Where I think we have stumbled on the balancing/fun-factor side has been in places where we're replacing well tested core abilities with "froofy" (for lack of a better term) skills that don't have the same power that the originals had.

the guy hiring the butlers drank a detect evil potion. Oh well

Make doppelganger copy everything...including aura....

Not sure if thats how it worked before, but a good idea nonetheless.

Even better...split the ability up ointo a tree of skills gradually allowing this.

Example:

Level X - Disguise features (allows person to mimic the features of another)

Level X+5 - Disguise Body (allows person to target someone and mimic what they are currently wearing, their race if considered, etc.)

Level X+8 - Disguise aura - Allows person to mimic a target's aura.

I'd add that there should be a size restriction meaning that the target should be within one size of you for the skill to work if you want to keep it non-magical.

I remember the days of Entropy, and doppelganger was "one of" the most powerful abilities in the game, especially in the hands of an assassin.

It did not duplicate the victim's aura, nor did it duplicate the victim's size, and those were the only ways to see through it, other than behavior. You could use it outside of pk range, and when you doppelganger someone, you even fool that person's guildguards, so you can walk into other guilds unrestricted. So as an assassin, you see some schmuck you want to assassinate, just go find some newbie level dude of the same class and doppelganger his ass. Then sneak into the guild and stalk away while the schmuck sits there spamming c "detect invis". When you have enough stalks, wait til his mana is gone and he goes to sleep, then assassinate at will. Even for non-hiding classes, it was extremely potent for similar reasons.

The ability still exists in the game, and I've seen it pop up from time to time over the years, in various forms (an item, a role contest reward, etc...). Whenever it does, all I can think is, "Man, if I had that, I would totally wreak havoc on my character's enemies."

Making doppelganger a CLASS ability is just sickening. Mud dynamics were much different back then than they are now, and that made Entropy abilities easier to deal with. High on the list of differences between then and now is playerbase numbers. Back then, the numbers were 80+ throughout the day, occasionally dipping below that in the wee hours of the night, and well over 120 during peek hours. Having some random dude running around garbling someone and then doppelganger them wasn't much of an increase in threat when you had so many other enemies around to worry about anyway. What's one more?

Moreover, most abilities in general were more potent back then. Damage multiplier abilities didn't have the damage cap that they do now. Ambush deathblow, charge deathblow, and backstab deathblow were often instant kills except against well prepared victims. Backstab + dual backstab (without deathblow) could easily become an instant kill for the properly attired murdering thief (My rager thief, Klaak, was one such thief, and I gained many mage kills by waiting at pits spamming backstab until my intended victim appeared, at full health, and then instantly died). A/B/S was more prevalent and easier to obtain back then. Frightful Fiend was much more potent and far more likely to result in sure kill (and often times, mass killings from a single song). Pets could be ordered to bash, so necromancers would run around with armies of giants perma-lagging anyone they fought. Masters had Transform for uber HP, plus Scourge of the Violet Spider for strong fireball + blind + poison + weaken (if I remember correctly). In short, a potent ability like doppelganger fit in perfectly with all the other abilities that were almost "I win" buttons. It was the Golden Age of CF, and certain death lurked around every corner.

Such is no longer the case.... (sigh)...

Entropy was definitely the _best_ pvp cabal for a good while. What always used to crack me up was Pico would always say "Entropy is about RP, not PK!!!" yet mysteriously most entropy chars were very very pk successful..

They tried to enforce RP over PK in the cabal and failed, which is why I think they just did away with it

I tried for a long time to get into entropy back in the day and could never figure it out. Randomly saying stupid #### never has and never will be my thing. I suppose if I was a PG who could care less I would have been fine :)

Dunno about the killing people from a distance with arrows bit. It would have to have a disembowel type chance of actually hitting something, which would make it highly unreliable for sealing a kill on the first go.

I do think all types of assassins should have different poison paths.
IE: Shadow- Plant/Emetic, Subterfuge: Contact/Mind Control, Distance: Grenade/various

Divvying up the poison types according to the school of training would make it difficult for there to be roundabout poisoners running around putting toxic stock in someone's inventory.

Per Subterfuge, I think it would be better to be able to make yourself look like a mob than an actual player. All things considered though, it would make Subterfuge RP significantly better because it would involve actually getting to know your marks to be able to readily fool them if the player route were taken.

Per Distance- Bring spells back for assassins. Having a bow is good for rangers and all, but the vast majority of assassin skills involve being up close and personal. Just having the bow makes the Distance assassin a one-trick-pony.

My two cents anyway.