Hi.

I am curious as to why the difference between the dispel supplication vs the dispel spell? How is it a priest is able to dispel spells AND supplications, but a mage can only dispel spells?

It would make sense to me that a priest would be able to only dispel communes, and I think this would bring shaman dispel "more in-line" with other classes.

Right now as it stands, with shaman dispel not reflecting any benefit from sv vs spells, as well as dispelling BOTH spells and communes....I just opt not to fight Shamans.

Is there a reason Shaman dispel is so utterly vicious in comparison to mage dispel?

I guess the other solution would be to make mage dispel match...

>Is there a reason Shaman dispel is so utterly vicious in
>comparison to mage dispel?

Yes. It's one of the keystone abilities of the shaman class instead of kind of a throwaway ability.

Also, it doesn't get spellcraft, so there's that. Because of spellcraft (conjurers excepted), mage dispel is ridiculously better at the things it CAN dispel.

This has been like this for as long as I can remember, and was really one of the few nice things about being a shaman. Then paladins got it in multiple forms... and now there's a phoenix shifter form who got it...

I think people are just in shock that shamans aren't one trick ponies anymore.

>This has been like this for as long as I can remember, and
>was really one of the few nice things about being a shaman.

Just because it's been like this for a long time doesn't make it right (read up on the history of 'rescue'). Sounds like you're playing a shaman :P Commune dispel is out of whack. It will get fixed eventually. How long we actually have to wait is the question.

As Torak mentioned, the dispel commune hasn't been changed as far as I know. Probably not since shamans were introduced, in fact. I've always felt that a shaman was awesome for fighting almost any class that relied on either sanctuary, shields, or buff spells such as those that a transmuter has.

And shamans were the original class to need "bashmen" back in the day. Dispelling someone's protective shield+having a bashman usually meant a pkwin.

You're seeing it more, naturally, because of the shaman revamp (and thereby more shaman chars being played). But I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it to be changed.

And no I'm not playing a shaman currently, nor do I expect to anytime in the near future.

You're right in all your points but it doesn't change the fact that commune dispel is out of whack. People complained for how many years about rescue before a fix was implemented? 10? That's all I'm saying. Eventually it will get to a point where someone sits down and says "Let's tone commune dispel down a bit". But yeah, I won't hold my breath because it could be a decade away.

> Eventually it will get to a point where someone sits down and says "Let's tone commune dispel down a bit"

I honestly don't see that happening.

It was such as huge letdown when I learned I couldn't dispel anything off a shaman as a shifter.

1) You can dispel things off a shaman, just not their supplications. That is very handy in a lot of situations depending on the forms you have and or allies present.

2) Unless you are a double defense shifter, dispel magic on a shaman is probably the last thing you want to do since you should be able to just outright win the fight.

Not with the one I played, though, with no forms whatsoever.

Of course, nobody said it should be viable. Just noting that when I was thinking up the build, amongst other things, I counted on dispel actually doing anything. It didn't.

Daev,

I think whats not being taken into account in this argument...is the wealth of utility/functionality your shaman revamp just brought to the shaman class.

I would argue that you are 100% right that shaman dispel needed to be the way it is to give them a much needed 'edge' pre-revamp.

The versatility that your revamp just added to the class closed the 'gap' quite significantly from my observations.

I do not think shaman dispel was out of 'whack' with old shamans - hence I've never posted about it

I do think its a bit out of whack on a new double-path poison/whatever shaman...

Old shamans had maledicts - sure...only a few of them had 'good damage' AND a maledict (Wither/Fatigue/Etc)

poison/plague didn't do outright nasty damage

now mr poison path has spammable thief poison success that comes along with NICE damage...

This wasn't the case before...shaman needed that dispel so his hellfire would be 'effective' by stripping an opponents preps..

Now, I've seen logs of these shamans spamming noxious cloud for good damage through sanc, not to mention adding a bunch of arguably extremely nasty debuffs...

Neo shaman != Old shaman, please re-examine dispel.

The only other class that can dispel a shaman without specific gear (or virtue) is another shaman. (I think a high-level devil will shaman dispel too but you have no control over that). Which makes them the perfect ganking class, imo better than Transmuters. Atleast with a Transmuter they have to dispel your flight for them to trip you, then they have to soften, decalcity. Which takes much longer than a single dispel.

If other classes could dispel their supplications, such as healers or paladins?

I am not arguing that Shaman should not have a decent dispel, it is just with the totally awesome new shaman paths they can #### you up and all they lost is rot, well...some of them.

I like neo shaman from what I have seen. I want to play one but I am a little too invested in my current character and do not want to waste an imm's time just to test it out. When I find time I will try it out.

nt

Reading this I feel like you think you're telling me something about the class that I don't know.

I think dispel is still fine.

Edit: If you like, lay out a scenario for me in which you think shaman dispel is so great, keeping in mind that unless you're trying to dispel communes, mage dispel is clearly, unambiguously, ridiculously superior.

I'll be your Arolin re: shaman dispel if you want :)