I got to mulling this over.

Exactly how much would the game change if the sacrifice command was disabled to mortals? Corpses already rot, as does unlooted gear left inside.

But I think the game would change immensely for warriors and necromancers. You would have to restrict the sacrifice command to anti-paladin unholies.

I don't know about anyone else, but for my lowbies finding stuff on the ground is pretty important. I'd hate to see a clutterless CF.

nt

If anything, maybe disable sacrificing of anything that was in a player's possession within the past 24 ticks or so. But that would mean putting a counter on every item, which may or may not be a huge pain in the ass code-wise (Or maybe it's already there to detect cheating).

nt

Where it was definitively said that neo-difficult-to-sacrifice corpses would not drop what they were holding when they rotted?

Why do we assume that if sacrifice were disabled that corpse rotting would remain untouched?

Ever wanted to slay elves with a lowbie and ran and got an iron sword off the ground? Say goodbye to ever finding armor in mid level ranking areas left by upper levels. Say goodbye to ever finding armor on the ground again, basically. Don't know if I like that, finding a treat or two passed over by an upper level is sort of nice when you know where to look.

You would definitely come across a lot less of the "trash" equipment which gets left around. I don't think you'd necessarily come across less of the better stuff though. Remember that everything taken out of a corpse in a CF without sacrifice will persist. That means a lot more items being dropped, given to mobs, put in pits, stashed in far away places, sold, whatever.

Most definitely the places you can find gear on the ground will change... But it will still be out there. And what is left out there will have a high probability of being really nice.

I think the fact that it's more difficult to find avg 21 iron weapons lying around might be generally a good thing and bridge the gap somewhat between mithril and iron vulns. Right now iron vuln is worse than a mithril vuln from levels 10 to 20 specifically because of this problem. It's such a marginal level range that it won't impact the game much beyond that narrow, already lopsided level range.

To me more of an issue is probably that the game isn't seeded very well with decent low level staves and whips but maybe that's just me - I always rely on dropped items for those two weapon types in the low levels. Everything else I can find something avg 17+ pre-15.

On the positive side, it would limit two of the major ways people outfit their alts, and it would put limits on those people who take pleasure in destroying the gear of the fallen.

But I am afraid this plan would have unintended consequences. Some characters -are- ridiculously strong, and small setbacks might take them out of the perpetual godmode they had been running around in.

This change would also make locate more powerful than it already is in the ability to find people.

It might add to realism, but it would add clutter in the ranking areas.

This might be a non-issue, but it would increase the amount of memory allocated to objects.

If objects on the ground rotted to address the previous issue, it would mean that no one could be the lucky beneficiary of finding dropped mob gear.

People autosac now. Which means mob items will sit on the ground. When you DON'T sac a mob, the items disappear along with the corpse in just a few hours. Less memory and less clutter will result from no sac.

I don't support the idea either, but if clutter was an issue, this would be answer for it. Not an exacerbation.
.

I like the outdoors. Leave no trace.

To his point, you do that because it takes you just a second -- you might think differently if getting rid of a corpse turned into a scene from a mafia movie. :)

n/t

Was the boost in power to locate part of the discussion?

not saccing a corpse ;). You are an exception and not being able to sac mobs easily would have the same result.

I'm sure you've experienced being blinded just before you kill a mob and being unable to loot it before it decays because you're blind. Mob corpses decay pretty darn quickly.

nt

People could probably adapt inventory-wise, though (get vs sac).

Here's the thing, if you already removed the capacity for weaponbreaker and stoneshatter to destroy a piece of gear, sacrifice is either going to break the gear and force the player to spend money to repair it, or it's not going to happen until you pick it up and deal with it.

If you disarm a 29 pound axe from an orc and pick it up as a dagger spec elf, that SHOULD affect your concealed strike chances to a degree.

As it happens, one of Valg's started-but-never-quite-finished projects was to phase out the sacrifice command in favor of a dramatically more complicated version that would still let you destroy a piece of gear, given appropriate resources to do so, but without guaranteed success and not nearly as quickly.

I wonder what's left to finish that up.

I mean..certain rooms where people farm mobs for coins/preps/items/etc are already quite often littered with pieces of erroneous gear that such said mobs wear. Wouldn't removal of the sacrifice command just result in no way to clear up such said 'trash items'?

No saccing mobs means the gear/coins/etc. disappears when it deteriorates, just like it does now if you leave stuff in an unsacced corpse. It doesn't take long either. Less than the length of a low level blindness.

As it stands right now, people autosac everything and tons of garbage gets left on the ground.

i am still working on it. It is an aspect of the game vastly different than all others.

It is the single option that really makes me think CF is really in my control if another player really turns me off. Mostly an option, but an option none-the-less.

CF has been on the decline about that hardcore aspect. And i'm less and less excited to really share my thoughts and the risk/reward of the game at the excitement I use to have for the game.

After playing CF for so many years I couldnt even play WOW for more than a few hours because of the limits of what I could do to another players. No open pk/no option to destroy stuff on overpowered characters you beat.. etc


If this gets limited even further you have taken the single one talking point I have. And I don't think I could justify really playing anymore and join what other friends I have in other games.

Was just commenting on the clutter. I'm not sure what they have in mind or the scope of how this would change things. I'm always for more risk than less, but no comment here.

But I mean what I say.

Most people from other games think, "Wow, that's hardcore, I'd never play a game like that."

It's a net negative. You could, incidentally, achieve the same thing, it just would not be as easy to do.

nt

I don't think the game needs both full looting and gear sacrificing.

One or the other has to go. I suspect you would rather keep get all corpse rather than the 'take 1 tick to undo straps on anything that isn't on a ring/neck slot or in the inventory' suggestion.

The MUD needs the capacity to strip naked powerful players and undo their snowballing to the degree that you can. That doesn't mean you should be able to actually destroy the gear.

It is reasonable to expect that the removal of sacrifice makes a very good argument for turning off corpseguard.

You can still loot crap and give it to random mobs (which is worse than sacrificing imo) or cabalmates, randomly sell them in MS, etc.

Plus, they are not really getting rid of it. Just making it more difficult to destroy stuff. You could still do it. Even just giving sacrifice trip lag would do wonders for it. Giving someone else the chance of killing the person trying to full loot you before they destroy all your gear. I don't really see your downside.

I actually like to sacrifice items, to prevent other players from tracking my movements based on the items I leave lying around.

I don't feel sacrifice has been so problematic a command to demand such a drastic change.

Bottom line is that you should not, in fact, be able to cover your tracks from someone capable of using locate object, which is already not a foolproof way to find people levelling or exploring.

The MUD is not for you to hide in solely because you feel like exploring and your predators don't know how where to look.

Besides any 'evidence' you leave behind can either be found because you left the trash gear lying around instead of carrion, or the body parts in question are just going to decay in a few ticks.

Are you presenting an opinion or a point of fact?

If it is the latter, please state your support.

>> The MUD is not for you to hide in solely because you feel like exploring and your predators don't know how where to look.

You assume I am 'hiding' from 'predators' and therefore need to conceal my movements. I simply don't wish people to know what areas I frequent, and build a strategy against me using this knowledge.

As far as trash gear goes, that is precisely what I would use the sacrifice command for. I also don't particularly want to deal with a plethora of lowbies adhering to me in a remora-like fashion in the hopes that they can collect gear.

Why was the get all corpse command for charmies never disabled?

If player have the time, the willingness, and the open inventory space to type get all corpse, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as when a guy with two guards or a bunch of zombies full loots six people in a row and walks away with all their items.

No risk, no effort, no need to even drop the twenty other super elite items you're hoarding in your inventory at the moment. Bam, instant douchery.

The most popular non-class specific charmies have no ability to loot whatsoever e.g. the silver construct.

The rest of them had their number of carry slots nerfed hard. Granted this is rather moot for necromancers as they can get enough charmies not to care, but everyone else is going to have huge problems actually keeping a humanoid mercenary alive long enough to loot in most fights, an underlevelled merc gets pasted the moment any fight involves fleeing.

Having taken a peek at the half-finished code, I'd like to clarify that I think people are assuming a much greater difficulty to sac things than would be the case if it were ever finished.

Like, probably it would take you on the order of a couple ticks to "full sac" someone instead of a couple seconds.

I like this idea and it passes the logic of how long it should take to loot someone. I can't even get my baby's diaper off in the time it now takes to to full loot someone. A breastplate or chainmail is much more than two velcro straps and rolling a fat dead orc/giant over isn't that easy.