If the official line is now that the game isn't fair, the following blurb would seem to be in need of updating:

"Everyone plays on a level field. If that guy just beat you down, or got picked to be Captain of the BattleRagers over you, it's because he's better"

Granted the context is that nobody is paying currency for perks - but divorced from that context the above is no longer even trying to be true?

I've never been able to capitalize on the things for long.

I would have to play at 2/3 AM (my time) to play at US 'prime time'. I may do that occassionally (during vacation) for empowerment or something similar, but it's the exception rather than the rule.

Some of you play so long that I can catch you in the morning, but it is unlikely I will ever play when the max player count is reached.

That means I miss out on a lot, so that's unfair.


Also, I'm much farther away from the CF server than US citizens, even with a good connection, my response times will be slower. That means I get beaten in time, even when mechanically I shouldn't.

That's also unfair.


But nothing anyone can do anything about. Bottomline is, forget a level playing field.

I think you're taking some stuff I said a bit too far. For some of the special sauce/imm rewards? Yeah that's not really a pure fair thing in that it isn't governed by mechanical rules and not to play something with the expectation you'll get said sauce. When it is given out? We don't have THE RULEBOOK...and if things aren't tightly governed there's going to be some inherent chaos in how it works...thus on some level? Not fair. IE: Some guy RPs something subjectively worse than you, but gets a reward you don't get? That isn't 'fair', but that's just gonna happen. Maybe they had better hours or a more active imm. That stuff will happen, and that's where I want to temper expectations. I also stated that's part of what makes this game special is we do that kinda stuff and hand out that to the players so you have these standout moments. I'm not saying it's this wildly unfair system, but it's not one where you see all the rules and can set expectations with them. We try to maintain consistency and we try to make sure the rewards don't break the game. Is there an unfair element? Yup. Like I said you could play a role angling for something special and do it amazingly, and you won't get it. Someone might do a subjectively worse job and get the reward. That's going to happen. That's the main point I wanted to get across about fairness. You aren't going to get some things you think you deserve, and some people who you don't think deserve them will get them...and maybe you *should* have gotten them.

However with regards to the tagline? 98% of the time someone beats your ass, it's because they are better. The basic game we do try to keep fair and balanced. It's an asymmetric balance so it's way, way trickier to maintain, but in terms of how the classes/cabals/races all match up? That stuff we try to maintain balance and fairness. It's those once in awhile "Holy #### rager paladin?!" moments that aren't. Even those special/rare combos we try to make sure don't completely break the balance of the game. However sometimes warriors get a third legacy and paladins get a third virtue. That stuff happens and the impact of those moments we still try to keep balanced, even if they'll be more powerful than the average warrior/paladin/shapeshifter/whatever because they have some tools most the others don't. However at the end of the day the core game we try to keep fair and balanced. It's the fact we let the admin staff step in and impact the game is where the unfairness resides, and like I say above, we try to maintain consistency and keep the balance of the game in mind when we do it. So while there is an unfair element? It's not the cornerstone of 90% of the game. And those 10% moments? Are some of the truly unique and shining moments the game will offer because we allow that sorta thing.

In the end, that tagline still completely fits. :)

Why are these 3rd legacies and quest powers so often given out to Immortal characters? Have you even seen the percentage of Twist and Daevryn characters that have been given perks. Come on, this is just cheating man. Immortals are giving themselves unfair powers over the rest of the player base. It is #### and should stop.

You can say whatever you want about me (because frankly the 10% of it about which reasonable people might disagree is utterly lost in the 90% of it that is utter #### or fabrication) but Twist is probably the top CF player of all time.

There are lots of people who can play maybe two or three different things better, but nobody else plays as many completely things as well.

As long as anyone can get any kind of rewards based on quality of play, Twist would rack up a decent amount of them unless he just didn't play at all. Which, I don't think he actually has played in many months so maybe you've gotten your wish.

It is like fighting myself, who knows what will happen. I miss clashing heads against him then finding out we killed each other a few times.

You act like everything is aboveboard, but there is an observation/exploration list floating around that Twist was passing around to the rest of the immortals so they would have an advantage over the player base. That is just one example, but sure it is all just smoke and mirrors.

Who do you consider to be these good players that do not get rewarded? I know that there are a lot of players out there, both good and bad, who have been rewarded in far greater amounts than I ever have been during my CF career.

>Who do you consider to be these good players that do not get
>rewarded? I know that there are a lot of players out there,
>both good and bad, who have been rewarded in far greater
>amounts than I ever have been during my CF career.

I don't think you have any ill will, but I don't think any of them would like to be named in this thread. One common thing that the ex-imms have said that happens is player and immortal characters alike get outed over the immortal channels. I wouldn't be doing them any favors.

I am sure you have names, but your refusal to name them kind of just makes it seem like you do not. If said players are already on the "naughty list" and not receiving any perks, then what difference does it make to name them here?

I know for a fact that imm rewards are given to railroad tycoons, like Twist, who play cf without any pk prowess or rp. Twist used these rewards to pk me while his goons burnt down my farm to build a railroad across my land. We all know Twist can't pk and doesn't roleplay at all, so the rewards were the only way he could accomplish this. Excuse me, just talking about this brings up some bad emotions. I have to go be alone for a while. How dare you, immortals? How dare you.

lol

Characters which made little impact and had less than 200 hours, yeah?

>Characters which made little impact and had less than 200
>hours, yeah?

Longevity is honestly one of the biggest keys.

Find people who had something cool and 90% of the time they either won a role contest or were a long-lived character. Lots of my favorite characters of all time weren't even on my radar at 100 hours.

Letting someone play for hours in silence = My character is not going to get the attention I need to get the imm exp I want to get the edges I'd like to try. = delete delete = roll new character = ! = ! = !

As an example.

I have no idea at all what you're trying to convey.

I'm leaning to your side, but honestly, your assertion has nothing without names.

>but there is an
>observation/exploration list floating around that Twist was
>passing around to the rest of the immortals so they would have
>an advantage over the player base.

I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.

Somebody misused their powers to pull what is supposedly a pretty good (but I'm sure not nearly complete) list, but I highly doubt it was Twist.

>>but there is an
>>observation/exploration list floating around that Twist was
>>passing around to the rest of the immortals so they would
>have
>>an advantage over the player base.
>
>I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.
>
>Somebody misused their powers to pull what is
>supposedly a pretty good (but I'm sure not nearly complete)
>list, but I highly doubt it was Twist.

The heroimm it was given to said it was Twist. I highly doubt it was a frame up job to ruin Twist's good name.

>The heroimm it was given to said it was Twist. I highly doubt
>it was a frame up job to ruin Twist's good name.

Twist has said otherwise to me and I have no reason to doubt him. I think if he was handing out explore lists I would have noticed at some point.

So we're at an impasse because you've decided something is true and I've decided it isn't.

nt

I don't know where you get your information (neither do I particularly care), but this is a game. It's also a game of pk and rp with many many mysteries and leveling requirements, etc. Someone is better at you for X reasons, whether they are true or false? Get better. RP it out so that these so called secrets and unfair leverage other players or imms have are not so secret or unfair.

I highly doubt that people say 'oh it's Twist's IP, so let's give him a ton of stuff.' He plays a lot of good, quality characters - instead of focusing on whether he's an admin or not, why not focus objectively on whether or not you really think, out of everything his characters do and play out, he deserves at least some, if not all of those rewards? Instead of pointing fingers at so called cheating, why not look into ways to get better yourself, both RP, PK or whatnot?

As Arvam said, CF is an unfair game. People who put hours and hours of their lives in this game are inevitably going to have a hands up against other players. My observation/exploration is probably about 30k each, and I don't know any immortals. I consider myself one of the top pkers/rpers in the game, in line with Twist or whatnot, and I didn't do that by cheating. I can navigate Organia blind from beginning to a few of the end areas without missing a step. Do I have a hands up on a lot of players? Yea, I do - I've been mudding since the early 90s in CF and pseudo-CF muds that have a similar structure. I put hours into this game to get to where I am.

(Sorry Daev) Is it possible that some imms 'cheated'? Yea, I wouldn't be surprised - Cabdru, for instance, probably tweaked some of his skill percentage and Nep certainly could've looked at the code for the talisman of ultimate evil/whatnot. Does that really detract from my game? Not particularly. I don't get what people are whining about re: skill percentage - is it the pk/hr, or the fact that he didn't have to go through the gruel and most players do? I'm actually ok with the skill learning/practicing - it doesn't really bother me that much. Is it that he knew about those cool hell items? Guess what - if he didn't use them/bring them out, I wouldn't know about them. Coincidentally, it's one of my goals (once hell is open and once I have more time) to get those items myself - all because he allegedly 'cheated'.

Finally, case in point - Did Cabdru, or Tavlin, or an innumerable of Imm characters that allegedly had reward granted to them because of their imm connections detract from my game experience? No, in fact, they created stories/experience that I rather enjoyed. With Knac and Ghrummin, I did something really similar to them. With Mhournhul (I still kind regret I deleted - pk/rp wise, I was so on top of things), I could've probably done something better than Tavlin/Cabdru/Hunsobo whatnot. FYI - I think the biggest badass thus far, besides Cabdru, was Kostyan/Igbah/Ahtieli. Guess what - not imm played.

Besides focusing on the nature of the alleged cheating, why not really look at the big picture? Are you pointing fingers because they got something that they possibly did not deserve through circumventing the system, because you think that since they're the admins they shouldn't be doing such allegedly shady business, or because, in the entirety of the game and your enjoyment of it, they are really detracting from the experience/environment?

Igbah/Kostyan/Ahtieli.

The only characters I've fought where I felt like I barely had a chance to escape, let alone win. I fought Tavlin and that bard emperor Hanord or whatever played by Twist. One I almost could beat and the other couldn't pin me down.

Edited because I left out a (3) on my bullet points.


>The heroimm it was given to said it was Twist. I highly doubt
>it was a frame up job to ruin Twist's good name.


So...yeah, I heard about this accusation, so I made an account and went to view it. After I saw it, I sent a PM to the original poster. Here's what I said:

"Pretty sure I never sent that to you (or anyone) since I don't know of a way to get a list like that.

I know how to see one person's observation/exploration, but I don't know of a way to get a list of all of them.

You sure you have the right Imm that shared this with you? Which character(s) were we in the same cabal with?

Twist"


That PM was sent over a month ago. No response. In fact, the original poster on that board hasn't actually logged into the board again since posting that on the day he/she created the account, about a month and a half ago. I'm not expecting a reply. We'll see.


At any rate, here's the facts of the matter, for what it's worth:
1. Anyone at 53+ can view OBS and EXP on any character. It's two separate commands to do so. Obviously someone, somewhere, set up this list. I could create a list that looks like that. So could any Immortal who got to level 53+. But not without a little work.

The immstaff is able to see which observation and exploration exp points any given character has gone to. The syntax is pretty much "observation charname" or "exploration charname".

The list that had been posted had all of those points comingled. It also had extraneous information stripped out (such as what character(s) it was for and what level the character(s) hit that point).

So the point I'm making is this: there's no imm command to simply list all obs/exp points in the game. Not that I know of, anyway.

2. There's no way I'd bother making a list like that and send it out to someone (though honestly, if I *did* send it to a fellow imm, it wouldn't be cheating, it'd just be really poor judgment). Not for ethical reasons (that too, I suppose) but because I'm way too lazy to bother. You'd have to string together 20-30 hero-level chars to get all (most?) of the OBS/EXP points and put them in a file like that, plus de-duping and so on.

3. If a fellow Imm DOES ask me a question like the one this guy says (where should I go for OBS/EXP so I can get edges), I tell them "Trothon, Jade Vaults, Organia, Khardrath's, Thar-Acacia." If they've done all those, I start listing other areas like Octagonal, Maethien, Delar-tol...you get the idea.

4. If I were cabalmates with this guy as a mortal, odds are quite high that I'd simply have taken him to places that he needed to go. Pretty sure I took roughly 12 shapeshifters through Trothon as Olthundor alone.


So yeah. Now, maybe you and those who post there feel that it is unfair for imms to have access to the OBS/EXP points for characters. I can't deny that the information makes it easier for any of us to know where to go. The purpose of the command is intended for troubleshooting purposes and other things (Yean sent Woldrun on a quest to find 5 Battle_only items, and was able to track whether he'd actually been there via the command, for instance).

I'll leave the "Imms got unfair knowledge" debate out of this post (other than the above) and just go ahead and say that I believe that the person who claims I posted that is (hopefully) mistaken or (probably) trolling.

Happy CFing!

not only do I have irrefutable proof that you posted that list, I have proof you gave your characters a skill that stole obs and explore exp from enemies and gave them to you, which is why no one can ever get as much obs exp as you.

I also have proof you set my character's skills lower (and set them back up after I deleted) so that I couldn't beat your character. I would easily stomp you if you hadn't been imm cheating.

Edit: I would write more but I'm too lazy to continue the joke.

The logic seems to be something like: I can't do that, therefore that act must be an unnatural phenomena. In the context of games, that phenomena is obviously "cheating".

Just one of many ego protecting cop outs I've encountered on the internet.

Do you consider knowing/passing around wand locations cheating? It was considered that way at one point at least. Maybe it isn't anymore? But it's certainly frowned upon/ban-worthy sort of thing to do on these forums or Gabe's site.

Do you consider snooping quests to be cheating?

How about knowing how to get gear in ST which other people don't know?

The game relies on secrecy as one of the main 'balancing' factors. So if you can "get around" the "legwork" by knowing things then are you "cheating"? What about if you send that info to lower level imms? What about if you use that info on your morts? What if you send that info to morts who are your friends?

I personally don't *care* what Twist does, or Nepenthe. I just want to enjoy *my* game. So long as they're not multikilling me over and over I could care less how well their stats look when they die - I'm still going to do my own thing. The only thing I ask is to not exclude people from the game, which from what I can tell Nep and Twist don't do.

If I do log in and I'm getting stomped by people who are passing around info that I don't have access to, I'll just bounce back to SWTOR or Eve Online or GW2 or whatever. You're not required to stay here and based on how the game works (which is how most of the players like it), it will *never* be a level playing field because it's designed to reward knowledge gained by playing LOTs and LOTs of characters (or info sharing). If that's a fundamental problem for you, I'd suggest you switch to a game which has a no secrecy policy (WoW, SWTOR, etc). I've played those games too and they're cool, but CF has a certain depth that is fun to play now and then. Plus it's cool to come back after years and years of not playing and still kick ass.

Also, I personally don't know why anyone *cares* about Obs/Exp XP lists. Did you not know how to farm this? I figured it out like 2 chars into it and it's basically what Twist said above. Pick areas that are relevant to your level that have quests or a lot of keywords and explore thoroughly - boom you get 1k obs/explore xp. Once those are done, hit the area explores. It's really that simple.

I found the ABS lists more disturbing, because those are *direct* power. See when I hit 30 without this list I don't know where all the aura wands are. I might search 70 locations, only 10 of which are legit aura wand locations. Having this narrowed to a finite list is *HUGE*. It means every mage I play will now have aura, barrier and shield so long as I can kill the mobs that guard it - and since I know pretty much every trick to soloing hard to kill mobs this really means I have access to full ABS on every mage I play. See I've played 4(?) mages that did not have barrier except 'named' barrier and I've had 2 that did have barrier...so I appreciate what that means and it MEANS A LOT.

------

So I guess I covered a lot of stuff there but to sum up :

1) I kinda get why people call it cheating because years ago, if a mort did that, it *was* cheating or considered cheating. I don't think it should be called cheating, it's like asking people not to fornicate. Just unrealistic.

2) Ultimately it shouldn't matter to *your enjoyment of the game* unless you're really considering this a tournament style game, in which case, you're barking up the wrong tree.

3) Use what information you have available to you and try to enjoy yourself.

Twist probably hasn't noticed this, but sadly because of all this the exploration and observation commands were bumped up in level so now only the IMPs, Ray/Baer and Amaranthe can use them.

I feel like one of them is an alt of yours.

>I feel like one of them is an alt of yours.

I assume you're referring to Ekaerok. That isn't me. I haven't had a mortal since Slanistarn (which probably nobody knew of or remembers), actually.

In a serious question...if you plan on admitting you played a character and posting logs...as an Imm/Imp, why would you even enter a role contest?

Let's say you win and you get a 3rd legacy...that now will forever taint that character, even if it's something *completely trivial* that has *no bearing at all on gameplay*. It's worse if it's something really, really good.

Maybe I'm dumb but I'd just not enter a role contest so later down the line, I could just say, "I didn't get any rewards at all." Right?

I can and surely do play tons of chars that don't even enter role contests so it's kinda easy for me to say I'm not relying on RC rewards to carry me (I'm not saying RC rewards carry you, but it's really hard to win an RC if you don't enter it to begin with).

Anyway, I guess I'm of the mindset that I don't need that #### anyway and I'd rather avoid the drama, if I were in that situation.

Edited to add: That's not to say I think there's anything wrong with you guys winning RCs. It's just a discussion question from one guy to another. I guess I'm lucky in the sense that, there's a lot of the game I can explore and have fun with without having to give two craps about whether or not I win an RC. And as a guy that has a kid, a busy job, a mortgage and a wife and all that jazz, I've learned that some battles just aren't worth fighting.

C'mon I love Twist as much as anyone (still my only tattoo! Screw you Khaso :) but yeah) but there are several players at his level.

FFS Balrahd got Shadow Lord and went 150-15 or whatever with his FIRST assassin. Jaguab had people convinced a gnome polearm spec was you cheating :)

nt

If you're an imm you are probably at least aware of the substance of the conversations that go on behind the scenes when it comes to handing out rewards or grading roles etc. Most likely (especially for twist and Daev) you are a key player and possibly a decision maker in those conversations.

You will know all the little nuances that the staff looks for when handing out these rewards that the common player base is unaware of and will be able to take advantage of this when playing morts.

Actually, the special sauce imm rewards have never really bothered me that much. I was just pointing out the incongruity of two categorical statements made about the game.

I personally don't believe the game is fair, but that has more to do with balance issues and player cliques than imm rewards.

Oshui probably cost me an entire characters worth of con, but that was because he was very good (other air shifters don't tend to compare very favourably to his abilities to sniff out my hiding places), I'm quite sure he could have done just the same with only his dire wolf form.

> If the official line is now that the game isn't fair

I missed where this was declared.

n/t

A level playing field means only that the arena in which the competition is taking place doesn't unfairly favor one participant over another.

A game of one on one basketball, played on a regulation court, with a regulation ball means that the environment doesn't favor me or my opponent, who happens to be Michael Jordan.

Unfortunately for me, my skills don't match up too well with his.

But that doesn't mean that it's not a level playing field.

this brings up a point I wouldn't mind discussing.

In your example, you nad Michael Jordan both have the full knowledge of the game and its rules and limitations. He has more skill, definitely, and perhaps a bit more "game knowledge" in the intricacies of play, but fundamentally you both know that a basket is worth 2 points, where the out of bounds is, etc. etc.

CF is not like that. For a long time game knowledge has been used as a "balancing" factor where even things as fundamental as what affects bash lag were unknown for a long time (decades?).

Something like intricate knowledge of the Inferno might be akin to have a few NBA championships under your belt in a difference in "game knowledge", but knowing that bash lag is pure random as long as it hits is fundamental knowledge that frankly should be available.

I wouldn't play one on one against MJ or anyone else if they refused to tell me where the 3 point line is, or where out of bounds is, or what a foul was, but that is what we are asked to do here in a lot of cases. How much svspell is enough? If I have -100 am I only 2% likely to get slept, but at -50 I'm 5% likely? Is the extra 3% worth the sacrifices in other gear I'd have to make?

I'm not saying Daevryn or Twist have this sort of knowledge exactly figured out, but they sure as #### know better than I, and I don't consider that a level playing field. That said, I love Twist's mortals. I don't want Imms to not play mortals, nor do I begrudge them knowledge gained through NBA championship level experience, but I've never been pleased with the hiding of information that is fundamental. Just because it is long-standing policy and you don't want people "min/maxing" doesn't mean you can't change that policy and at least let people make informed choices.

Hopefully this post is mostly of a tone that can be handled in the way it was meant, as a hopeful discussion point.

That said...{begin rant} Edge points piss me the #### off in exactly the same way thief points (before the values were known/knowable) did. I should be able to make an informed choice about what I spend my points on. {end rant}

I agree that, for instance, I should be able to ask if bard songs are affected by save vs spell it seems like a really reasonable think that should be well known and understood.

I had a saves post on the new players forum (and a trapper post here and a couple other mechanical posts) that didn't get answered I *presume* because the information is not meant to be well known.

Honestly, I feel like that's counterproductive. Look at 'smear mud' (other thread). A half dozen skills have their chances reduced by using it, but it *requires* you to have an empty slot. If I don't know what those half-dozen skills are, how am I supposed to make that decision?

Then people wonder why 'wood-elf sword spec RBW' (or other obscure combos) turns out to be so good (ignoring the whole, "those edges got put in to facilitate that toon" argument...since its out of scope for this discussion) - but how realistic is it that I mechanically figure out how viable every combo is to play it max'd? I can only play so many characters in one year and without going OOC to experiment there's only so much legit unbiased information I can gather from each one, to a point where I could probably play 2-5 rangers without ever knowing the full extent of smear mud.

And it's like this with a lot of skills (hypno was like this, trapper dusts were like this, smear mud is like this, templar's maneuvers for 2h spec pally were like this, etc) where at least 80-90% of the utility of an ability aren't known to people who possess the skill.

>I had a saves post on the new players forum (and a trapper
>post here and a couple other mechanical posts) that didn't get
>answered I *presume* because the information is not meant to
>be well known.

Generally if I'm reading the forums I'll answer the post where I know the answer or am pretty sure I know the answer without looking it up. If I'm not sure I tend to put it off to maybe look up later and often something shiny distracts me first.

>And it's like this with a lot of skills (hypno was like this,
>trapper dusts were like this, smear mud is like this,
>templar's maneuvers for 2h spec pally were like this, etc)
>where at least 80-90% of the utility of an ability aren't
>known to people who possess the skill.

I've been thinking that once I sort through all of the feedback and stuff around the "bad skills" thread I might start a "what skills have helpfiles that aren't detailed enough" thread.

End of thread :P

Too much work. :P

But, for example, the Templars defense helpfiles are a lot better than before I rewrote them.

That'd be awesome. Brain dump on various skills/spells.

Of good, but not quite good enough. Let's look at couple and I'll point out what I mean....

'TEMPLARS DEFENSE HIGH' (910)

The various high attacks are spin, slash, deflect.

SPIN:
As you deflect your opponents attack up, you make a tight spin to bring your weapon around in an unblockable blow to the back of their legs, leaving them weaker.

Legs + weaker? Is that a dex malediction or a str malediction? Does the tight spin bit mean this is dex dependent for success?

SLASH:
As you parry your opponents attack, you duck and place a powerful,
unblockable strike at their exposed legs, leaving them weaker.

This looks the exact same except it mentions ducking. Does that mean size dependent? How does this malediction stack up to the one above? Can they be stacked? Is one always better than the other? If there isn't an obvious difference between the two, how do you determine which to use?

DEFLECT:
Stepping in towards your opponent, you push their weapon out leaving
them open for an unblockable and powerful strike.

SEE ALSO: 'TEMPLARS DEFENSE'

'TEMPLARS DEFENSE LOW' (908)

The various low attacks are thrust, crescent, spinthrust.

THRUST:
Guiding your opponents weapon down and to the side, you bring your weapon up for a quick, unblockable, well-placed strike.

What does well-placed mean? Harder to miss? Hitroll dependent?

CRESCENT:
Parrying across your body, you draw your opponents weapon down, which
allows you to get in an unblockable and powerful strike.

Powerful... how powerful, is there some reason to use low crescent instead of high deflect?

SPINTHRUST:
Stepping back, you draw your opponents weapon towards the ground, which allows you to get in an unblockable strike at your opponents torso. A hard enough strike with a sword can leave your opponent bleeding, while a hard enough strike with a mace can momentarily stun your opponent.

Momentarily stun is ambiguous. Is this a knockout skill like "stun" or lag, like trip? I believe this it the one that lags like trip, but I also think I've been lagged by those using swords. What affects how "hard" the strike is, i.e., whether it lags or not? Str? Size? Random? What are the chances of getting lag? 50%? 75% 1%? Because if I need it to lag, but the chance is only 1%, then I'm probably going to find something else...

SEE ALSO: 'TEMPLARS DEFENSE'

I seem to recall that these don't stack, but I see no mention of that anywhere in the helpfiles, nor does it make much sense that they wouldn't stack in many cases. If I hiltsmash can I then not even attempt a spinthrust, or can I but it won't hit, or it won't lag? Or is it only for maledictions? Why would opponent being blind affect my ability to hurt their legs?

So, in summary, what I'd like to see in helpfiles is this:

What (as unambiguously as possible) does this skill do? Lag, Straight Damage, Damage + Malediction, Just Malediction? How much? Does it scale with level or some other factor? What is the baseline (i.e. poison is -5 str, does not scale, does not stack, etc.)?

What affects my chances of success? Stats? Saves? Size? Race? Imm Exp? Other affects (i.e. Speed/Flying)?

What is my "base" change of success? If I have the skill at 100%, what are the odds that "works"? What are the odds of "critical success"? IMHO, I'd do essentially naked human vs. naked human in this case. Straight 20 stats.

One more example in this hijacked thread. Here is one of the simplest skills on the game, and I'm not 100% sure I know how it works:

'ENHANCED DAMAGE' (494)

Certain classes can become skilled enough in combat that they are able to inflict more damage than other classes. Enhanced damage is checked for with each hit, although with a low skill, the chance of receiving a bonus is very low indeed.

Does this take my weapon "roll" + dam roll and then apply a straight modifier of *1.5 damage? Does the multiplier scale with strength?

How I think it (and backstab and ambush) works is that it is a ~2x (or much higher in the case of backstab/ambush) multiplier that scales with strength on your weapon "roll" only. So an average 30 weapon that rolls a 30 turns into 60 damage and then damroll is straight added on top.

Now I could be wrong, but it seems to me that high weapon avg. has always meant more on backstab/ambush than damroll, and I suspect the same is true for enhanced damage, but I honestly don't know. Isn't this something I should know at this point?

If I'm reading that wrong, do tell me. But, Michael Jordan is the reason why basketball was saved. Saved, as in, there was a time when nba games weren't even televised live. They'd be in tape delay after your late local news. Jordan had many critics, and many things(rules/fouls) changed when he finally retired. The league catered to him. Listened to him constantly bitch at the refs but did not care. Was he the greatest baller ever, its arguable but maybe. Jordan saved the nba but if you watch the nba, you'll know its not a level playing field. Its based on the very few stars who bring the revenue up. Always has been and always will. That's why NCAA basketball is so much better.

Little long but had to comment on that :)

Jordan started playing in 1984. Go turn on ESPN Classic any night and you can see games going back to the 70's. The idea that MJ was the reason that basketball games were recorded and could be re-aired is laughable. It was the decrease in the cost of recording methods that made it cost-effective to record various television shows and events.

Jordan did have many critics, but that's to be expected. Most top players in any sport have their critics.

What many things (rules/fouls) changed when he retired? For most of his career he was excelling BEFORE the 3 seconds in the paint rule. The removal of hand-checking came while he was playing and certainly helped him, but that was done to speed up the game overall, but he'd been playing for 10 years when that happened. He also benefited from the shortening of the 3-point line, but not as much as many, many other people.

These things were done to make the game, as a whole, higher-scoring and more exciting, and certainly weren't done as some sort of a favor to Michael.

The real question is "did he get preferential treatment from the refs" and I tend to think that he did, from time to time, benefit from his stardom.

But you know what? I don't think that Jordan would have been the star he was, despite his skills, if he had been a prick. Part of his appeal was then, and is now, that he's a charismatic, nice guy. That goes a long way when trying to color peoples' opinions of you. There are a lot of CFers who could stand to learn a lesson here.

By the same token we have constant accusations of preferential treatment around here from the IMMs, but rarely is the connection made that the people who get said treatment tend to not be assholes (note "tend to," the occasional ####wad Nightreaver Shaman will get a hook-up.)

And for the record, I never said that the NBA was a level playing field, just that if MJ and I played one-on-one the only thing that would be "unfair" was the disparity in our skill. Now, I think that whining about that being unfair is stupid.

He said that NBA games weren't aired LIVE before Jordan.

NT

The game is not fair, but its not because of an uneven playing fields. The same tools are available to pretty much every single person who plays the game. The same preps are around for you as there are for me, and the same skill choices present themselves to you as they do to me. The unfair part stems from the fact that rewards are given out to the players who have earned them. Again, this is not done based on any sort of external variable. You have the same opportunity to be rewarded that I do.

>The unfair part stems from the fact that rewards are given out to the >players who have earned them. Again, this is not done based on any
>sort of external variable. You have the same opportunity to be
>rewarded that I do.

Your statement belies all the evidence to the contrary. There is a small group of players and Immortals that routinely get these "quest powers" at the expense of the rest of the player base. There are players who were on the inside of this circle who were frozen out who have said as much, also you have had numerous Ex-Imms state that this is the case.

Immortals have their own internal wand list, observation/exploration point list, knowledge of the mechanics that put them at an advantage over regular players. Has there been a discussion as to whether Immortals really need to be tilting the playing field even more in their direction with all these quest perks? I am sure it is probably fun for some Immortals come down from upon high with quest skills and rape a few constitution off of players, but it gets old after a while for some of us.

There needs to be accountability and transparency around how these perks are handed out to the small player base, and Immortals should not be receiving them.

I'm not an Imm. I have an awesome list I wrote up with relative observe/explore exp rewards for a lot of areas that I frequent with my lowbies on through hero for exploring. I luck out in that I like to read, and a fair bit of the CF environment is well written. And just because I do it with every character, that is probably 150-400 hours of gameplay away for me, which can be 2 months or 12 months. So I explore these areas once or twice a year. Besides, it isn't hard to type area/area explore and look at what ranks they have associated with certain areas, then think about what mobs are there, determine the safety of the area for your rank, and attempt it or not.

The fact that you know there is an internal Imm exp list means you've probably seen one. Which means you have something similar to start off of. And you do the lowbie explore because you want the edge points for it. So you have all the data available to you, you just want someone to actually email you the exp document rather than you open a notepad file and compile it yourself. It isn't hard.

I've seen a wand list or two floating around, but that was a few years ago. I've since rolled a few hero level shifters, good, neutral, and evil, and each one has had other shifters/mages/even warriors eager to go wand hunting with me, especially as things looked bleaker and bleaker. I have my own wand list now, its not the best out there I'm sure, but it has a LOT of locations on it. I've never not found my ABS with my mages. My last shifter I looked in a total of 5 locations and found my 3 wands. I've also spent 150+ hours searching for my wands. You just want someone to email a wand document rather than you open a notepad file and compile it yourself. It isn't hard.

That has also allowed me to add on an exceptional number of unique wands. Hell, I've killed other mages, taken their wands, and returned them after I was told where to find the wand in the first place.

My current character has zero spammed skills. I've killed a few people. I don't die very often in PK. I fight almost every login (unless no enemies, then *gasp* more exploring or RP'ing. Would 100%'s in everything help me more? Probably a tiny bit. Or not, because I die to better players far more often than I kill them, regardless of race/class/cabal combo. CF is full of people who are better than me. I'm going to assume you want someone to email you the "perfect way to practice" document, but since I've never spammed a skill that wasn't hide/sneak, I have no idea how to help here. I'd rather play the game and interact with people and die and be forced to regear and interact with more people than spam on a wraith or whatever people do these days.

There are people who are better RP'ers than me, that's damn certain. And I'm not good with religion play, its too specific for my spacey brain. So I have zero expectation of Immortal rewards beyond *maybe* a role contest reward (I haven't entered one before, I'm just guessing I write well enough to do it). When I come across one of those "over gifted" characters in game, I usually die to them. I don't #### off about it, and I never get grief from them. Hell, I've had total badasses kill me then send me tells to hurry back so no one else loots me.

Or you can bitch and get your newbie breads taken. Again.

Lastly, Immortals are players if they are playing mortal characters. I highly, highly doubt Twist, Daev, Scarab, or anyone else that has been here for as long as we have really needs to look at a damn list to determine where to go to explore at exactly what rank. They watch us do it. They code the values for those areas. They put the wands on the mobs. WTF do you expect, them to just disavow any knowledge they have of the game they are actively creating? Most people can run a rank 15 character through Organia. How the hell is that possible? Has your rank 15 character looked at specific maps from his IC uncle or something? No, he hasn't. You can't just stop knowing the #### you know about the game.

And honestly, if you knew EVERY character Daev or Twist played, I somehow find it hard to believe you wouldn't think most of their characters were better played than the vast majority of the playerbase. RP, PK, doesn't matter. They do it better, they just happen to be better at the game. I was one of the unfortunate few that introduced Quas to the game. I've been playing for 10+ years more than him. He absolutely mops the floor with me in PK, and his RP has improved a lot over the last couple of years (it still isn't very good...BURN!)

Feel free to call me an Imm ass kisser. It isn't really true. I don't know the truth to any rumor. I have never seen cheating from the Imm staff, just total #### behavior, mostly from Astein back in the day. But he did that to almost everyone. Then Dalteric came around, and Astein proved he wasn't a #### anymore (do I have that right? I think I do). The horse I have in this race is me and the fun I have playing a game.

I love RPG's. Unfortunately, they don't really exist in the gaming world, though things are changing for the better in that regard. But even still, Skyrim isn't really an RPG, there are a finite number of possibilities. Same for every other video game out there. CF? Yeah, total RPG. Infinite possiblities, very few impossibilities. The staff is volunteer. The playerbase is volunteer. You can ask/hope/plead/beg, but that doesn't mean you get ####. Demanding almost certainly means you don't get ####.

I'd rather people didn't stop playing the game because of all this alleged ####. But I'm really, really tired of it affecting the game I play. As in, people are bringing this type of #### to my character IN THE GAME. I'm not happy about that.

I can avoid that stuff IC most of the time with the ignore button. This is the first character I've ever done that with. I can not visit any boards but these, or only read death threads. I like CF discussion, I think a lot of the playerbase has a lot to offer, if they aren't talking into their own asses at the time.

But it really is getting to the point where people either need to shut the #### up, or just #### off.

>I'm not an Imm. I have an awesome list I wrote up with
>relative observe/explore exp rewards for a lot of areas that I
>frequent with my lowbies on through hero for exploring. I luck
>out in that I like to read, and a fair bit of the CF
>environment is well written. And just because I do it with
>every character, that is probably 150-400 hours of gameplay
>away for me, which can be 2 months or 12 months. So I explore
>these areas once or twice a year. Besides, it isn't hard to
>type area/area explore and look at what ranks they have
>associated with certain areas, then think about what mobs are
>there, determine the safety of the area for your rank, and
>attempt it or not.
>
>The fact that you know there is an internal Imm exp list means
>you've probably seen one. Which means you have something
>similar to start off of. And you do the lowbie explore because
>you want the edge points for it. So you have all the data
>available to you, you just want someone to actually email you
>the exp document rather than you open a notepad file and
>compile it yourself. It isn't hard.

I don't need to compile my own, the immortal list is on a public forum. It has just about all the areas and all the observation and exploration points. The point is this list was being passed around the immortals to the detriment of the rest of the player base, things are just a little more level now in this regards.

>I've seen a wand list or two floating around, but that was a
>few years ago. I've since rolled a few hero level shifters,
>good, neutral, and evil, and each one has had other
>shifters/mages/even warriors eager to go wand hunting with me,
>especially as things looked bleaker and bleaker. I have my own
>wand list now, its not the best out there I'm sure, but it has
>a LOT of locations on it. I've never not found my ABS with my
>mages. My last shifter I looked in a total of 5 locations and
>found my 3 wands. I've also spent 150+ hours searching for my
>wands. You just want someone to email a wand document rather
>than you open a notepad file and compile it yourself. It isn't
>hard.

I do have my own wand list that I have compiled, plus wands from yet another immortal list that hit the public forums with the room vnums in it. Do you not get the fact that when a wand list hit the public forums before the immortals had a fit and moved all the wands ####ing over the player base, all the while passing around a wand list among themselves?

>That has also allowed me to add on an exceptional number of
>unique wands. Hell, I've killed other mages, taken their
>wands, and returned them after I was told where to find the
>wand in the first place.

I am not saying wands are impossible to find, I am saying the immortals are ####ing passing around a wand list while trying to hold the player base to a different standard than that hold themselves.

>My current character has zero spammed skills. I've killed a
>few people. I don't die very often in PK. I fight almost every
>login (unless no enemies, then *gasp* more exploring or
>RP'ing. Would 100%'s in everything help me more? Probably a
>tiny bit. Or not, because I die to better players far more
>often than I kill them, regardless of race/class/cabal combo.
>CF is full of people who are better than me. I'm going to
>assume you want someone to email you the "perfect way to
>practice" document, but since I've never spammed a skill that
>wasn't hide/sneak, I have no idea how to help here. I'd rather
>play the game and interact with people and die and be forced
>to regear and interact with more people than spam on a wraith
>or whatever people do these days.
>
>There are people who are better RP'ers than me, that's damn
>certain. And I'm not good with religion play, its too specific
>for my spacey brain. So I have zero expectation of Immortal
>rewards beyond *maybe* a role contest reward (I haven't
>entered one before, I'm just guessing I write well enough to
>do it). When I come across one of those "over gifted"
>characters in game, I usually die to them. I don't #### off
>about it, and I never get grief from them. Hell, I've had
>total badasses kill me then send me tells to hurry back so no
>one else loots me.

I don't care getting ganked by Marcus or someone with skill, but do care when I am killed by some asshole immortal or his buddy sporting a quest form who couldn't kill #### without it. I just try to avoid them and let them play in their own little easy button world. I don't see the fun in cheating to win.

>Or you can bitch and get your newbie breads taken. Again.
>
>Lastly, Immortals are players if they are playing mortal
>characters. I highly, highly doubt Twist, Daev, Scarab, or
>anyone else that has been here for as long as we have really
>needs to look at a damn list to determine where to go to
>explore at exactly what rank. They watch us do it. They code
>the values for those areas. They put the wands on the mobs.
>WTF do you expect, them to just disavow any knowledge they
>have of the game they are actively creating? Most people can
>run a rank 15 character through Organia. How the hell is that
>possible? Has your rank 15 character looked at specific maps
>from his IC uncle or something? No, he hasn't. You can't just
>stop knowing the #### you know about the game.

There is a difference is in passing around lists that they forbid players share and knowing what is in an area that they built.

>And honestly, if you knew EVERY character Daev or Twist
>played, I somehow find it hard to believe you wouldn't think
>most of their characters were better played than the vast
>majority of the playerbase. RP, PK, doesn't matter. They do it
>better, they just happen to be better at the game. I was one
>of the unfortunate few that introduced Quas to the game. I've
>been playing for 10+ years more than him. He absolutely mops
>the floor with me in PK, and his RP has improved a lot over
>the last couple of years (it still isn't very good...BURN!)

No one is saying that Deav or Twist can't roleplay or pk, but they both get a lot more quest perks than others, I have never been particularly impressed by their mortals to the degree they have been rewarded. Just take a look at some of their PBFs and compare them, it is laughable.

>Feel free to call me an Imm ass kisser. It isn't really true.
>I don't know the truth to any rumor. I have never seen
>cheating from the Imm staff, just total #### behavior, mostly
>from Astein back in the day. But he did that to almost
>everyone. Then Dalteric came around, and Astein proved he
>wasn't a #### anymore (do I have that right? I think I do).
>The horse I have in this race is me and the fun I have playing
>a game.
>
>I love RPG's. Unfortunately, they don't really exist in the
>gaming world, though things are changing for the better in
>that regard. But even still, Skyrim isn't really an RPG, there
>are a finite number of possibilities. Same for every other
>video game out there. CF? Yeah, total RPG. Infinite
>possiblities, very few impossibilities. The staff is
>volunteer. The playerbase is volunteer. You can
>ask/hope/plead/beg, but that doesn't mean you get ####.
>Demanding almost certainly means you don't get ####.
>
>I'd rather people didn't stop playing the game because of all
>this alleged ####. But I'm really, really tired of it
>affecting the game I play. As in, people are bringing this
>type of #### to my character IN THE GAME. I'm not happy about
>that.
>
>I can avoid that stuff IC most of the time with the ignore
>button. This is the first character I've ever done that with.
>I can not visit any boards but these, or only read death
>threads. I like CF discussion, I think a lot of the playerbase
>has a lot to offer, if they aren't talking into their own
>asses at the time.
>
>But it really is getting to the point where people either need
>to shut the #### up, or just #### off.

If you don't want to read it don't read it, but I am not making any of this up. The lists that are floating around are from the Imms themselves, they have things in them that only an immortal would know. The only thing I am asking for is an even playing field.

The thing is, it took me three characters to compile my observe/explore list. I haven't even done all the area explores either. I always get 25k/35k, or more (or thats backwards, I can't remember which is listed where on score exp) for my characters. It isn't very hard to do, nor is it that time consuming. Its far less time consuming than spamming weapons and dirt kick and bash. And sometimes I luck out and find someone to run around with me, so solo explore becomes RP with someone else while also exploring.

Same with my wand list, maybe 2-3 mages and I've got locations on my list that cover every need a character can have. I know where to find talismans for a ranger or out of the way wands that are generally not taken by anyone.

I guess I've always assumed that the "elite" information was always available to the Immstaff. Maybe not hero-imms, but the staff in general. But then, a hero-imm generally has had quality characters in the past (if I remember the requirements correctly) so I'd assume their game knowledge to be higher than average anyway. And if they have snoop, and some free time? How about "snoop badass mage" and watch him get wands from obscure places. Do that a few times to a few mages, and all of a sudden an Imm has a nice list without really doing a lot of work. Or would that be too cheaty?

But like I wrote in my initial post, I don't know what is true amongst the rumors. I've heard about the lists, I've even seen wand lists from other players years ago.

Also, I hope it was obvious I wasn't directing my comments at you specifically, but more the general feeling of #### that the playerbase has coming out of it right now. Like I said, this stuff has come to my character IN GAME. Who the #### am I to have to deal with that? There is no reason for it.

>I don't care getting ganked by Marcus or someone with skill, but do >care when I am killed by some asshole immortal or his buddy >sporting a quest form who couldn't kill #### without it. I just try >to avoid them and let them play in their own little easy button >world. I don't see the fun in cheating to win.


Yet you freely admit the use of a cheater's website. A joke. Just like Orb, Tolnum, Torak, and all of that ilk. Players who scream the loudest about cheating, yet don't blink an eye at cheating if they are doing it.

Nice show bro, nice show. Now get off the stage.

I've never personally seen credible evidence of someone passing around a list of anything like you describe while an imm.

And it's not like we haven't had to cut people loose now and again over the years for abusing their power. We don't make a big show of it, but it does happen. I'm not saying we haven't sometimes as a game trusted the wrong people too much -- it happens, we deal with it as best we can, and we move on -- but the specific things you're alleging, no.

Edit to add: some of said bad apples over the years actually have had the gall to allege that other people were dirty afterwards, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of those people were the source of things that are out and shouldn't be. We try not to air our dirty laundry any more than we have to, but it is what it is.

And may be one of these Imms.

So perhaps not a poster child for this.

According to this link he is reformed.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=15920&mesg_id=15945&page=

You can get a good general idea of places to get good obs-exp experience from and even narrow a few certain rooms down and a number of mobs.

But the imms purposely set up the system to make it difficult to figure out exactly what is triggering the experience by making it so you can discuss guild master only so often.

For instance, certain rooms trigger explore experience and you would have to spend a ton of time dissecting each area to specifically identify which rooms hit for explore experience by walking into a select few rooms and then either quitting or discuss/wait out discuss timer out and then go hit the next few rooms in the area until you've narrowed it down. There are a few rooms you can learn just by happenstance but many are tough to narrow down.

The same applies for obs experience although I think it's a little easier to identify certain mobs.

This leaves you with going through entire areas, noticing you've got experience and repeating on the next character. And doing this you will undoubtedly spend a bunch of time entering rooms or looking at stuff just because you aren't entirely sure what it was exactly you got the experience from.

Heh, you're entitled to that. I don't mean to claim I know the exact value of examining a fishbowl in a room vs looking at a mob. Just what general values for observe/explore that can be attained in certain areas are, that's all.

I don't play the same game as everyone else, that's all. My characters are almost always fringe characters, which I'm fine with. My enjoyment from CF doesn't come from pk characters very often. That leaves me a lot of time to go do other things in the game. Meet a lot of cool people doing that, and you learn neat things about the game. Sometimes you end up running around with one of the better players in the game and they show you really cool things.

Observation isn't that hard to figure out.

Is it a named and/or unique mob? You probably get some XP for it.

Unique or hidden item? You probably get some XP for it.

Hidden door or window? You probably get some XP for it.

You are now aware of the super secret observation strategy -- because looking at the above is way, way faster than powering through a list, even if you have access to a definitive list. And, as a side benefit, if you pay attention, you might find quests or other interesting stuff. I found something mechanically useful in Loch Grynmear this way a year or two ago that I'd managed to miss completely through I don't even know how many trips through it.

Figuring out how to "farm" observe/explore isn't hard at all, you're right. Just some people take enjoyment out of the task and others don't.

My first hero spent 50+ hours in the Loch figuring everything out that I could. I can still show people stuff in game today and know that I have a good chance of surprising them. Heck, there are little quests in cities I show people IC that I'm really surprised they had no idea about, let alone in further away areas.

I remember how awesome it felt to discover some of those new weapons that were introduced by Valg back when.

It's also neat to find a cure disease edible in a room just like every other room except for one noticeable difference.

For me, the facts that things like wand lists and obs lists exist don't show that someone like you or Twist is cheating it shows however that there is a tangible desire to hoarde such knowledge by players (whether IMM or otherwise is immaterial).

To give an example, I highly doubt that Baer would have chosen to reward a char of mine. She's said she doesn't like me as a player. Is it because I cheated. Nope. II believe, based on her comments to date that it is because I asked the echo on her tatt to be changed so that it didn't refer to courage. This on the basis that it ended up on people that would abandon allies and avoid fights with even minimal risk to them, whilst taking down people that posed no threat at all to them.

It seems in each case she has identified me using imm tools, which I consider rather unfair given that I tend to solo pk and have never been accused of ooc hookups etc.

I understand her reasons but I'm not sure one can say that anyone, given similar input, can expect similar results, given that that rules out one of the main awarders of perks from my possibilities.

I don't know who you play, I don't get where you think you're so victimized because you said you didn't like the echo of my tattoo (Really, I'm THAT petty?) and in the grand scheme of crimes I can complain about saying that my tat echo is weak is pretty far to one side of the scale compared to a bunch of a-holes talking about how they should band together to get me fired from my real life job.

As a player, I respect you less because of the way that you always assume everything is handled OOC via contacts outside of the game. You frequently say that's the reason for things without any actual fact to back these statements up. It irritates me to see. However, the idea that this sort of thing would put you on a dreaded BLACK LIST is nutty. I'm too lazy for that ####. I care more about working full time, raising the world's most wonderful toddler, and living a life I enjoy. This sort of silly grudge structure is not where I want to focus my time. I don't even remember you saying x about my tat or me saying I didn't like you. Do I have a wish that the Orbs and Kadsuanes and other jags of the world would just stay as far away from me as possible? Hell yes. HELL yes.

However, that has no bearing on how I would treat you in game. I am not perfect but I really do try and provide a fair in game experience though I am sure you would not believe me. Yes, I did tell Torak to bugger off when he started emailing me for special treatment and a combo that just wouldn't ever exist in CF. However, I tried to phrase it in a polite "please don't have anything to do with me" that I would offer a number of players. There are several whom I wish would just avoid me in game and out. However, times have come up where they did decide to roll a Baer follower despite what they thought of me or how cruel they had been to me in the past. When I knew about it, I treated those people fairly.

What's that mean? Some kind of euphemism for jack offs or...

I don't know? Just curious. Never heard the term before.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jags

ftw indeed.

For all the people that seem to think they should bother you for whatever reason for supposed slights they have endured or because they think CF is not how they believe it should be (and Daev/Baer are to blame), there are countless players that are thankful for what you both do for CF and realize that you're doing your best to provide a fun enviroment in CF when your free time allows you to.

I'll say most of us appreciate it, it just goes far less said than that vocal whiny minority that has nothing better to do than obssess about things related to a free to play game that they have a choice about whether to engage in to begin with. I'll never understand that notion that as a player I should care so much about playing CF (which half the people say they have stopped playing, so why do they even care what goes on?) and what the volunteer staff does that I need to focus any of my free time on it attacking them in any way shape or form?

I may have disagreed with Rayihn's handling of things IC a few times, mainly because I'm playing a character that wouldn't have concern to agree with her. But I did so so knowingly, and I never felt for an instant anything she has ever done (with any imm persona) has been anything but IC and handled with class, even in the face of the complete lack of it from so many players time and time again. If the people that complain about her had that same level of resolve and commitment to enriching CF that she displays instead of behaving exactly in the manner they accuse her of, well, CF would be much better for having them.

So I'll say it again, because it needs to be said more often than it is on these forums and any other one where people talk about CF.

Thanks to Baer/Ray (and all the other Imms) for enriching CF, and screw those guys who'se only joy related to CF seems to be about trying to detract from it in any way they can.

CF is better for having all of you Immortals, and if I decide to roll another character in the future, it's going to be because you all are there watching over Thera, not because you're not.

End of my Rant.

If I needed constant validation I surely would NOT play CF, but when nice things are said they really are truly appreciated and serve as a wonderful reminder of why I play this game.

The immortals don't work hard enough or play their god personas enough. They need to be locked in a dank dungeon, fed bread and water, and their eyes glued open to a computer screen that will only show CF.

Especially Scarab. Let's keep his evil nonsense in a video game where it belongs. Can't have him roaming the streets.

EDIT PS: Oh, and add halflings.

Some folks need to calm down and act their age.

n/t

17 years since I started playing and I'm still having fun. That is part to the staff.... That and my sociopathic and OC nature. ;-)

Bard Imm, go go!
I mean, seriously. I likes you. ^_^

As soon as Homard imms a Battle char, I'll have no choice but to Imm a Nexus W-Elf bard just so I can PK him in Asgaard.

I wonder if DB fires on Canoe Whack?

nt

For an awful lot of reasons, too. I don't know another game others can be devoted as much to my personal gaming experience, or as a part of it.

Lots of thanks for those that enrich the game, staff and playerbase alike.

Since I no longer play (verifiable by the imms if they want), and long ago accepted that Baer and I are incompatible even though I'm the one that stepped in to prevent the ooc hating of her elsewhere, I wouldn't say it is a whine.

I simply point out that everyone does not have equal chances if one of the more generous (in terms of rewards) imms determines who plays a char and dislikes said player.

In a vacuum people assume a lot of things. I had two separate chars on one of my last toons think that I cheated because I caught them with their pants down and bashed them to death. On one of my current toons I've had the same thing to the point where the dude actually apparently 'ratted me out' to the Imms or some such (or so he claimed) on how conveniently I showed up to kill them.

Reality? I was hunting them for a couple hours and that's what I do. I revisit places people show up at and kill them. I know where people are likely to be and I hang around and I'm fast enough to sneak in and do what I gotta do. I gather intel on people and then I use that to find and kill them and it's how I do PVP in this game.

But what's the point? The point is that with the little bit of information they had, they took a huge leap and assumed I must've been cheating to kill them. They didn't see me on where, so I *must've* cheated. It couldn't be that I knew they were there by other means and snuck up with the bashness.

Kinda the same here. And I don't think those players were bad people per se, just they can't read my mind and I can't read theirs. In game it doesn't really work if I telegraph everything I'm going to do or tell them how I do what I do. So they go on thinking one thing that's totally false and you know what, that's fine.

So I guess where I'm going with this is, play the game the right way you feel like it should be played and if people get the wrong impression don't sweat it. Doesn't mean they're evil people and it doesn't reflect poorly on you, it's just one of those things that happens.

What Baer herself has said about me the player and my characters in her Posts.

That's hardly hearsay or just making stuff up.

Despite that I probably spend mOre time dealing with attacks on Baer than anyone else, as the other dios admins could probably attest.

I've had this happen, too.

I'm the first to admit that I'm not particularly good at PK, but a few times when I've killed someone I've had them, in a thinly veiled OOC manner, accuse me of cheating.

Never could it possibly occur to them that
1. They're not as infallible at this game as they think they are.
2. I couldn't have just gotten lucky.

For a portion of the playerbase they simply cannot accept that they were outplayed, ever, and assume that the only solution is that the person who beat them cheated.

These forums should have banner ads for psychiatrists.

Mine includes posts by you saying that (a) you dislike the player of nererial, who didn't complain about fort at all (imm comments on pbf) and (b) you saying that the reason you disliked me as a player was me emailing you re the behaviour of your courage tatted followers.

Then you've made comments about an ap being Victoria mark ii despite the rp being different. Not ravon, but Victoria.

Respectfully... I think you REALLY overestimate how hard it is to notice that two d-elf APs played by you are the same player.

You can try hard to change your RP but for everything you changed there are probably 5 things that come across in-game that you didn't or couldn't change. What skills/weapons/tactics you favor, sportsmanship, etc.

Lets say you observe a player you like saying he is unable to join a raid that would be 5 attackers against 1defender. Same with one you don't like.

Could one look good (didn't choose to gank) and the other look bad (didn't choose to raid) because of your preconceptions? Thus creating unfairness without awareness or intention?