I can see how dwarves would be allowed into the Tree but orcs?

Orcs were created by corrupting elves. The name of the first elf that was corrupted into an orc and who is the founder of the Grinning Skull village is written in the Grinning Skull Village.

I get that Lyristeon is a chaotic being but for the love of consistency, could we please at least try to follow a logical curve and consider how doing things like this makes it difficult if not untenable to justify a character's motivations for existing within the Refuge?

Already sad to see Lyristeon back. I personally have never enjoyed interacting with him or his followers. Ruinous would be too kind a word.

I'm not happy with this change.

No offense, I'd rather have Lyristeon or any imm with a consistent presence back in the game than you. Nor does saying you're sad to see an imm back show a mature perspective or an appreciation of what the game needs.

Lyristeon the character is a source of grief plain and simple.

I've always disliked the blatantly ripped off Tolkienesque backstory of the orcs - that they're twisted elves or whatever. That's something I wouldn't mind seeing being either quietly forgotten or just handwaved - something along the lines of, well, the orcs have lived in Thera for so long, and they live in the same manner as many dangerous beasts, that Thar Eris has adapted to their presence and they can now be considered natural. After all, no other race can be said to be more like wild animals; orcs are savage, have no mercy, live by their instincts, and their relationships are defined by survival of the fittest. The preceding aspects are pretty much how I would define a Nightreaver. So long as Nightreavers and Orcs take the time every now and then to fight each other and establish who's strongest, I think that's fine. It's better then orcs being buddies with Imperials.

The dwarf part of it is where I say meh. There's nothing at all in dwarf roleplay or history to indicate that they should have a special or even just neutral relationship with the Outlanders - they specifically despoil the wilds and remove and destroy natural resources where ever they go, all of the time. If Sunwardens can be buddies with dwarves, why can't Nightreavers be buddies with duergar? Honestly, serious question - what's the difference between the two races that makes one okay for the Outlanders, and the other not?

I dislike anything that removes intercabal strife and fighting, and while we all know despair of the eternal Fortlander love affair, especially with the current leadership, I don't see the need to codify it even further. This strikes me a little as Immortals deciding that they're never going to stop Fortlander, so they might as well help it along some. No thanks.

It's in the help file.

And...

Dwarves were Sylvans orcs never were.

And....

Dwarves have a creation myth that meshes well with Outlander (Nordiarch)

And...

There are nature loving dwarven Mobs around.

But...

I like your idea. I'm not a fan (Nor really a detractor) of the Orc creation myth either. (Or their inherent wimpy)

Without arguing for or against anything in this discussion, your big blind spot in it is that you assume all three branches of Outlander have the same ideals and creed. They don't.

I don't have any blind spots.

The 3 branches have the same Cabal goal. Just different methods.

How does running with orcs not fly in the face of this?

>I don't have any blind spots.
>
>The 3 branches have the same Cabal goal. Just different
>methods.

Wrong!

Edit: Or, you're defining the goal so broadly to make it true that your previous point can't be consistent with it.

The characters may have different sub goals. Also end of story.

You have no creative roleplaying talent whatsoever. You see everything in black and white, right or wrong, with no regard to the entire gray area this is CF. This is one of the reasons nobody wants to interact with you, you RP at them instead of with them. You tell other people how they should play THEIR roles and characters. It's abrasive and almost as annoying as your forum persona (which by the way fooled nobody, everyone almost immediately knew who was behind the new handle)

Hint...roleplaying is just that....roleplaying. If you don't see it in a straight line like you you can take it anywhere, do anything with it, and bend or break all the rules. Your failure to grasp that is why you don't blend in in this community in the slightest.

Guess you're just more pro than any of us.

Gapsassin out

There's way to much precedent for orcs to be a good fit.

I'm not sure what you mean by RP at someone or how you feel I don't grasp anything about role play or how you know that people don't RP with me.

People RP with me all the time. But whether they do or don't has nothing to do with the fact that Orcs running with reavers is nonsensical.

Only one person has made an attempt to say why this makes sense.

Welcome back Lyristeon. The BS begins.

You're utterly missing the point, and what's more, for some bizarre reason you want to be utterly missing the point.

Th point is there is no historical precedence or in game reason that makes orcs fit to run with any Outlnder. Reaver or not.

Can you explain how this makes an iota of sense?

Popped in just to see what's going on and this made me have flashbacks.

Based upon CF history, what is written in the tree, the Berserker concept, what is in the Grinning Skull Village, and the GSV it's self.

That's the point.

Besides what Nythos mentioned, things are nowhere near as simple or black/white
as you imagine. The Outlander cabal has, traditionally, reflected the dynamics
and intentions of its members. Nothing is written in stone and CHAOS holds sway,
as it should. Make an effort to participate beyond the superficial and you might be
surprised.

None of that comes anywhere close to describing my notions or thought processes.

I can see how shapeshifters would be allowed into the Village, but invokers?

Two important points.

1) Personally, I'd rather see some involvement in-game rather than an immediate rush to the forums. It's changes to Outlander that have been in place less than a week. A lot can be found out by actual interacting rather than the (often partial) information on the forums.

2) You're griping about a situation that is based on incorrect information. Neither dwarves, nor orcs are allowed in the Refuge. I was there when this occured, and it was very specifically stated to the Outlanders (and in the gechoes which occured) that neither of these races will be part of the cabal. Orcs cannot join ANY cabal as it stands, due to the clan setting.


Ultimately, there's really no basis for a complaint when your assumptions are wrong to begin with. Yes, there's more to it than that, but it isn't anything that actual interaction shouldn't be able to find out.

Based upon what the Outlanders have traditionally been and what minimal instructions they are given there's no way an orc should be a friend of the cabal.

Goblins perhaps as they AFAIK aren't a race twisted from some other, but certainly not orcs.

And while I did write that I didn't think they should be in the tree when in fact they can not be, that was not my intention. What I meant to write was that they should not be "frien/allies/partners/butt buddies" with the tree for the reasons I outlined.

Sorry man, it's coming to the forum. Unless the Outlander cabal is being completely rewritten under their current guidelines tis shouldn't possible.

I had a dwarf warrior that was a pledge to the refuge for a while and it was you who told me that I couldn't join but I could be friends with wardens. It made some sense. This orc thing does not.

Isn't the whole idea of a new handle sort of a fresh start to leave your past behind you? There isn't any point in changing handles if you just harp on the same points as always and make it obvious who you are.

.

The game is evolving. I think this is an interesting twist. For the game to feel fresh, twists are good! Now if only I could find some time to play!