Answer that question and then guess that's where the game is heading. Away from "First Person Shooters" towards a more delicate adult roleplay world.

When you played D&D as a kid you started out Hack'n'Slash. Hard a hoot, made levels, collected magical trinkets ect. With time the DM decided to add something he called roleplay. You lost intressed and moved on. I guess all the DMs that stuck to "The New Way" became Imm's on CF.

--> Semi new subject: Why fewer players?

Thing is, with all the offers out there today very few will get introduced to CF and even less entrapped. The game is to complex, the action to widespred and the graphic to lame to catch on.

For the last 5-6 years we have talked about the number of people online dropping. Perhaps it drops, perhaps it not. But I would be intressed in seeing a statistic about the number of people online vs the number of rooms in the game.

Last I checked Top Mud said CF had 20001+ rooms and players online 75-100 (And that might be a bit on the high side). 5 years ago how was the ratio?

CF simply looks empty. Not something that will make new people hang out. I left my first MUD simply because it was getting/feeling depopulated.

Søren

Nearly everybody gangs in CF. Some call it brotherhood, some call it beastly instincts, some call it working together, some call it overpowering an enemy, some call it putting the (un)righteous down, some call it dishourable. Whatever, we all have done it in CF life.

When Empire was around a couple of years back. Players complain about ganging and pinpoint to Empire. Then it was gone. Ganging existed still. Complaints of gangings on Sylvans and Village and Fortress and what-have-yous. Players mourn and wanted Empire back so there is a bigger gang that will rock the smaller gangs. It's back now and nothing has changed. Except the focus is on Empire gangs and it is the No 1 ganging cabal.

Yet we all respect one who does not fully loot or gang and players who managed to win or escape the odds in ganging group.

Some principles I've come up with about CF generally (not for faint heart). Take it with a pinch of humor.

1. Some players move from ganging to creating their own style of pk. Some prefer to stay at that level and gang all day. And full loot. Live with it - that's life.

2. In group game/life/sports dynamics, it may not be the most skilled person that wins. Numbers can overwhelm any person and will mostly do. Live with it - that's life.

3. Imms are doing their best to control (not nerf) the ganging codes. Be glad that they are looking into it (for free, mind you!). But they just cannot stop it. It's part of life. Live with it.

4. It doesn't matter if your cabal is small in numbers. Or large or freaking large with sects and division and an army of ogres and undead at your beck and call. Big fish eat small fish in the real world. Live with it - that's life.

5. Stop writing these moronic principles. You can keep it to yourself. Answer : Live with it - that's life.

6. Top Principle : It's a game. Who cares if I'm ganging or pking solo. Who cares if I'm fully decked before 20th rank or I don't know where the A/B/S are. Who cares about you and your 300 hours character who got nerfed in skills/spells/supps. Who friggin' cares about your character's death when CF crashed. And died again with some bugs.

Live with it - that's life. It's just a game.

Think I must have had too much MacDonalds past few days.

When did someone Imm because they could PK?

When did we turn someone away for that reason?

PK skill is a plus when people apply. It generally answers the question of whether or not they have a baseline knowledge of how to balance an area, new abilities, quests, etc. People have been turned away for the opposite, actually. If I see someone who clearly doesn't grasp that facet of the game, they need an otherwise flawless application to get my vote.

That said, there have been some people who could hold their own in a PK fight, but wrote some of the worst areas ever turned in. It's sort of like how a lot of retired athletes fail miserably as coaches- it's one thing to play the game, it's another to be able to understand the game.

The bigger reason that a lot of people who consider themselves elite PKers aren't on staff is that a lot of those people built their reputation cheating their asses off. It'll be a cold day in Hamsah Mu'Tazz before we start scraping that particular barrel.

Last I checked Top Mud said CF had 20001+ rooms and players online 75-100 (And that might be a bit on the high side). 5 years ago how was the ratio?

To the best of my knowledge, the number of rooms in CF has increased roughly 10-15% since I became an Immortal in 2000. (For the curious, roughly 20,000 to 23,000.) I don't think this has had any real impact of dilution, especially when you consider that the number of areas hasn't changed that much- a lot of old ones got cut, and maybe a dozen small areas got merged into the larger ones.

There are larger factors in play. Commercial multiplayer RPGs are out there, more people have broadband and prefer graphical games, etc. Lower quality MUDs have crashed and burned under these pressures (including some clone attempts founded by former CFers, which suggests our management is better than you think), whereas we've taken a pretty small hit in playerbase. That said, the Internet and DVDs haven't driven books out of business. There's a niche for people who are looking for games with greater depth.

The whole green-is-greener thing was around when I got to CF, and it's still here now. It's like when people claim looting or ganging is some invention that occurred last month. It was that way when I started playing in 1998, and people complained just as much, unless of course they were doing the ganging or looting at the moment, in which case they were OK with it.

CF's a much better game, competing in a much, much tougher environment. Please stop attributing the small decline in playerbase to whatever change is bothering you this week.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>It's like when people claim looting
>or ganging is some invention that occurred last month. It was
>that way when I started playing in 1998, and people complained
>just as much, unless of course they were doing the ganging or
>looting at the moment, in which case they were OK with it.

Homie speaks the truth.


(PK) Delanan The Courtyard
(PK) Valguarnera The Front of the Chapel
(PK) Plyate The Courtyard
(PK) Varital The Courtyard
(PK) Kundali The Courtyard
(PK) Chelsea The Courtyard
(PK) Hegobi The Courtyard

Valguarnera is DEAD!!
Valguarnera splatters blood on your armor.

Please stop attributing the small decline in
>playerbase to whatever change is bothering you this week.
>

Why make a good reply and then ruin it at the end?

Arrogant bastard.

Søren

Please stop attributing the small decline in playerbase to whatever change is bothering you this week.

Why make a good reply and then ruin it at the end?

Because if you search Gameplay a little, you can find people who attribute that small decline to practicing code, too many areas, not enough magi, the limiting of the jeweled broadsword, ganging, looting, whatever Hastur is talking about, or whatever else. Basically, people hijack that fact for their own agenda, without bothering to look at the bigger picture. It's lazy and dishonest, and I'll call people out for doing it.

Just because something bothers you, doesn't mean it doesn't please other players.

- People who'd rather play than spam tend to be fond of the new practicing system, since it gives them more benefits for doing the same stuff they were doing before.
- People who like to explore like having a steady stream of new areas.
- People who like playing dark-elves like not having every single opponent equipped with a top-end mithril sword.
- Newer players like being able to loot or gang to 'get on top' even if they can't stay there. Old players get bored when no one can beat them. There's been looting and ganging since day one (if anything there's less now because some players make such a big deal out of it), and it's not responsible for the decline in the last couple years.
- I'd answer the magi thing, except magi are the same 20% of the population they've always been. It could be that they are staying at lower levels for some reason, but ff anything, ranking a lowbie mage is much easier than it used to be- partial shifts, more transmuter mojo, more lowbie areas, more low-level magical devices, etc. (More on this front coming down the pipe, by the way.)
- Etc.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

::- Newer players like being able to loot or gang to 'get on top' even if they can't stay there. Old players get bored when no one can beat them. There's been looting and ganging since day one (if anything there's less now because some players make such a big deal out of it), and it's not responsible for the decline in the last couple years.


If you're trying to say there's less ganging/looting now, i'd say you're pretty out of touch on what's going on in CF these days. I don't remember there being this *much* ganging. CF has degenerated to one giant gang fest as far as i can tell. It's like the cold war on CF these days.. you stick with your selective cabalmates because you know if you venture out alone you're going to get ganged the #### down.. Only the deterence runs out when the other side gets 3 or 4 more people than your side and then they finally make a move. It's actually pretty sad. I think the anti-gang code cemented the idea in peoples heads that they need *MORE* players to pk successfully because your skills will fail anyway. Some things haven't changed on CF though, it's either night or day for cabalwars and frankly it's boring as hell.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

CF has degenerated to one giant gang fest as far as i can tell.

This reboot:
PK this uptime (Total) 61
PK this uptime (Solo) 46 (75%)
PK this uptime (Grp 2) 11 (18%)
PK this uptime (Grp 3) 2 (3%)
PK this uptime (Grp 4+) 1 (1%)

Now, the automated tracking can be a little off at times, but in 'normal' combat situations, this is how many people were fighting the person that died. It will undercount in some less common combinations- people who started the fight but fled away, etc.- but there are plenty of players who fight solo.

There's a couple cabals with rather gang-happy groups in them (Scion included), but it tends to be the "elite" crowd as often as not, despite the fact that they tend to complain the loudest.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

They don't really mean much.

Excepting a perma lag situation, usually when a gang is going, the victim is going to flee before they die. In this instance, they are very possibly low on health. Thus, when reinitiation happens in combat, it is distinctly possisble that the victim will be tanking less people that are actually in the group that kills them.

2 hypotheticals.

group of three is ganging me. Axe spec starts with a pincer. I type flee. 2 rounds of everyone hitting me, plus the pincer damage. I am at 15% health, my flee goes through. They eventually catch me, axe spec pincers to reinitaite, the pincer kills me, I am only fighting the axe spec when I die.

Group of four gangs me. I flee and teleport. Air major finds me and finishes me off......


Group of four gangs me. I am maelidicted. I teleport, maelidictions finish me off....

The list goes on.

With my last char, a svirf dagger rager, I often would get ganged. Usually I could cause at least one person, if not two in the gang to flee before I died. Thus, there was a much larger group ganging me than the numbers would indicate.

My guess is this is common, especially with classes like paladins et al.

1) In a 2-on-2 fight, if someone falls, they count in the (Grp 2) bin. Ditto for n-vs-n.

2) We account for some of the situations you mention. I'd have to check the code for more details, but I'm pretty sure the reinitiation bit you're talking about is properly counted.

Some of the other situations you mention are valid, and lower that 75% figure, but when you add #1, above, back in it's going to be quite far from Jhyrbian's claim that everyone is ganging all the time. Zulgh's characterization is more accurate- there are hero-range groups in every cabal that are the largest culprits there, but outside of that scenario, it's a lot more one-on-one.

And it's definitely true that some of the people who talk the loudest about gangs... are frequent members of them.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

::Some of the other situations you mention are valid, and lower that 75% figure, but when you add #1, above, back in it's going to be quite far from Jhyrbian's claim that everyone is ganging all the time. Zulgh's characterization is more accurate- there are hero-range groups in every cabal that are the largest culprits there, but outside of that scenario, it's a lot more one-on-one.


Let me clarify, yes i'm talking about the hero range PK. You make it sound like i'm the only one that notices this. (I'm not.) Those hero-range groups are not little groups either, they're generally quite large and really bent on killing and full looting any possible enemy they see. And the problem does lie in the hero levels, that's what needs to be fixed.. somehow, someway. No i don't have any foolproof fix for it, nothing that would be implemented anyway. So it's all good and well to say that those level 12's are fighting 1 on 1.. big ####ing deal. No one cares about the level 12's fighting 1 on 1 or 2 on 2. Let me see your fancy stats for hero range pk %'s in groups vs solo. I bet you by a fair margin your other stats are way off base.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

The ganging numbers are even less due to certain scenarios that happen quite often. For instance:

5 hero range Tribunals are in the spire defending against three criminal types. They don't group because of the laws in town. One Tribunal gets summoned by one of the three and dies. The other four are there with guards before he dies. But, because they aren't in a group it looks like a gang, when in reality, there were 5 tribs, four with guards who came running. 13 vs. 3. Take away those scenarios and ganging deaths are quite a bit less.

Not only that, but listening to the people who came up short in that scenario speaking about how they got ganged when in reality they were the gang shows that what Valg stated about looking at the bigger picture is true.

The fact is since I began CF about 1 and a half to 2 years ago, I feel there has been an exponential jump in ganging. This began most notably when the Empire cabal was introduced. Because of large Empire gangs running amok, the Fortress began to do the same and it has become a vicious cycle. I'm not saying ganging wasn't prevalent before, only that now people seem to have an RP justified excuse to gang the living crud out of people. Say what you want about the past, I've read the 12 man Empire gang log on Istendil too so I am not saying this is new. Only that we are all feeling it a lot more due to the fact that in Empire (And to some extent other cabals as well) it is accepted and in fact even seems to be encouraged that people gang. It's not particularly invigorating as a player to be ganged by 3 or more people consistently, rather then rarely, which now seems to me to occur with a lot more frequency then when I began. I don't see this changing until the Empire Immortals do something about what appears to be a lot of trash in their cabal. End note, I am not saying only Empire gangs or that everyone in the Empire is a ganger. Only that it appears repeated ganging and/or trashiness from Empire cabal members is neither forbidden nor discouraged.

It's a little different with the Istendil log, he was attacking them.

Cheers.
Jhyrb.

Did people whine about scion ganging?

If you say no, you are either clueless or was not there. The largest evil cabal has always been ganging.

The cabals opposing them have also always been ganging, I dont know if this "extreme" ganging is new. But it sure is not due to Empire.

But thank you for playing and please feel free to try again.

So why not try to pass off some more misinformation? I play CF, not just lurk the forums so I can flame and post a bunch of negative stuff. The fact is since I began playing here I feel ganging has gone up exponentially since Empire went in. Have you even played in the last 5 years to either refute or agree with this fact? No you sit and lurk the forums and make your judgements on the MUD based on the few random, edited logs that show up on Dio's. Do us a favor, if you are going to comment about the game, actually play it so you know what you are talking about.

I play from time to time, I just dont play seriously. Were you there when everyone and their mother was Scion?

It was not that long ago I played an Imperial in hero range.

How long have you played and how long have the empire been in?

"Were you there when everyone and their mother was Scion?"

Depends which time, if more then a year and a half to two years ago, then no.

"It was not that long ago I played an Imperial in hero range."

How long ago exactly?

"How long have you played and how long have the empire been in?"

Played close to two years, Empire came in more recently then that.

Think it was 5 months ago, might be more..up to 7 not sure really.

Played on to 36 after that though.

I wont ever convince you, but what is it that makes Empire a ganging cabal? Easy induction? Scion was as easy before...

So, I dont think it is empire.

>If you're trying to say there's less ganging/looting now, i'd
>say you're pretty out of touch on what's going on in CF these
>days. I don't remember there being this *much* ganging. CF has
>degenerated to one giant gang fest as far as i can tell.

The only place I see this is at hero. And yes...Fortress gangs. Empire gangs. Scion gangs. Battle gangs. There are gangs all over the place at hero.

The biggest gangs I've seen is 6 on 1. It's happened 15 times from March - June. That is what has changed. Those are the types of attacks that I don't remember in the past.

>Some things haven't changed on
>CF though, it's either night or day for cabalwars and frankly
>it's boring as hell.

Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day, but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.

"Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day, but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small."

I think the main problem I have with cabals is that I always believed they should be the "best of the best". Not to say they are sick pk'ers or outstanding RP'ers but that they are held to a higher standard then other players. For all the talk of how CF wants to be more RP oriented, it has to start with accountability for player actions. Having been in a few cabals myself it never failed to amaze me how few people defended or even bothered to try and retrieve when they were being raided or their item was gone. What is fun about going to a cabal, taking the item, all while your in-range enemy hides, and then sends his lowbie cabal members to retrieve? There isn't any pk in that scenario, which happens an ungodly amount of times. This is heightened by the fact that we know we could have PK, if the in-range cabal enemy just decided to show up or try to even fight. I'll add that this happens mostly, in my opinion, due to class imbalance, but that is another thread altogether and one which I am known to disagree with CF on. Getting back to the point, it is very rare for me to see anyone handling the negative aspects of a cabal with as much eagerness as they enjoy the powers.

I think if cabals became serious matters again, with enforced rules, I think people won't be as bored as much. I don't know how you would implement such a thing, but frankly nothing agitates me more about CF then the amount of out of pk range crap that goes on. Most notably lowbies retrieving items when heros are in range and online and not hopelessly outnumbered.

What have you the imms thought about ways to perhaps tweak/fix the current system?

I think you misinterpreted the problem.

The problem is that usually one cabal overwhelms and overpowers another. The solution you suggest would not fix this problem, but exacerbate it. Your solution would cause less people to want to play when their side is heavily outnumbered or when the item is gone.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker


'Sorry, I'm not 72323slhlst. Or however you say Elite'
-Vynmylak

::The only place I see this is at hero. And yes...Fortress gangs. Empire gangs. Scion gangs. Battle gangs. There are gangs all over the place at hero.


Absolutely, it's a sign of the times i guess. People not wanting to die because they *work* too hard for what they achieve on CF. Maybe i'm completely wrong on that, but i doubt it.. even if i'm right, no one would accept that as an explanation anyway.

::The biggest gangs I've seen is 6 on 1. It's happened 15 times from March - June. That is what has changed. Those are the types of attacks that I don't remember in the past.


They did happen way back then, just not with as much regularity i suppose. Even then the 6 on 1's are bad, but the 11 on 2's are worse. Alot of players on CF have lost that sense of sportsmanship that was a little more prevalent back in the day.


::Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day, but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.

20% of the time is a very very low margin Zulg, it might as well be night and day. For like 4.8 hours a day. (generally split into different times.) CF can be somewhat balanced.... the rest it's one side running and hiding from the massive gangs of the other side. Yay. Let's hear it for the other 19.2 hours where CF is completely asstastic.

As for a fix Zulg, i've given up trying to come up with ideas for things, they're never taken seriously anyway.


Cheers.
Jhyrb.

>Absolutely, it's a sign of the times i guess. People not
>wanting to die because they *work* too hard for what they
>achieve on CF. Maybe i'm completely wrong on that, but i doubt
>it.. even if i'm right, no one would accept that as an
>explanation anyway.
>
>They did happen way back then, just not with as much
>regularity i suppose. Even then the 6 on 1's are bad, but the
>11 on 2's are worse. Alot of players on CF have lost that
>sense of sportsmanship that was a little more prevalent back
>in the day.

People on the main forums time and time again say how they don't like to die because they think it's weak (I don't like to die because it means i lost) so they believe ganging is a viable method of ensuring they don't lose. I've left groups on the principle that they've grown too big, i don't know how many other people will do that.

But yeah, it's more common these days to see a group big enough to take hell, stalking the eastern road. That's sad.

>The only place I see this is at hero. And yes...Fortress
>gangs. Empire gangs. Scion gangs. Battle gangs. There are
>gangs all over the place at hero.

Yep, this is totally true. I can't tell you how many times groups would come back into the Fortress, dump someones stuff int he chest, and say "We just killed so and so". From a Fortress leader POV I had to smile and say "nice work". From a player perspective, it was different.

>The biggest gangs I've seen is 6 on 1. It's happened 15 times
>from March - June. That is what has changed. Those are the
>types of attacks that I don't remember in the past.

I was on the wrong end of at least 2 of those in the last 3 weeks. For the record, they suck.


>Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day,
>but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to
>watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.

I think something needs to be done to create a better "balance" between the cabals. To be honest, I can't think of anything, but I'm sure someone has had a thought or two on this in the past and maybe something could be thought up. I'm sure the solution would be something that wouldn't sit well with a large portion of the CF community (ALA Limiting logins of a cabal, if opposing cabals have few or no members on, god that would suck) but I do agree SOMETHING needs to be done.

>Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day,
>but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to
>watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.

Since you say it is mostly happening at hero ranges how bout making it so that heroes cannot group with others except for in explore areas? Or if that sounds too extreme how bout limiting the people they can group with to 1 or 2?

>The biggest gangs I've seen is 6 on 1. It's happened 15 times
>from March - June. That is what has changed. Those are the
>types of attacks that I don't remember in the past.
>
>>Some things haven't changed on
>>CF though, it's either night or day for cabalwars and
>frankly
>>it's boring as hell.
>
>Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day,
>but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to
>watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.


If you're opening the door for suggestions, let me toss a few your way. Some anti-gang stuff:

Make it harder for large groups to travel together
I'm not sure what all you guys can do with lag and muddle-like stuff. Maybe for each person in the group, it takes a little bit longer to leave a room (maybe entering too). This makes sense from a logical stand point too: large groups slow things down. Orc could be the exception. Maybe felar too. Maybe all of the same race travel normal together?

Not sure if you'd want to mess with groups of 2 or 3, but kick it up at 4, and even more at 5. Expotential growth kind of thing. Make trying to run around with 6 people less fun. Encourage them to break up into smaller groups. Would also let the defender get first shot, or force the large group to send a smaller group forward. Would want to keep track of who is following who, so they don't just walk around ungrouped using say.

Make it more like real war, with regiments and whatnot. Send smaller groups out to each do a certain thing, and meet back later to regroup, recoup with the rest, and listen to the bard sing. Having fought both with and against Nexus, I can say it was cool like that, and it really sucked for them trying to gang with lots of people when they were bonded.

This would also make it more challenging for large groups to utilize outside cabal cooperation with area-affects, if they could not all be grouped in one massive gorgy. {gang + orgy = gorgy}

Remove autoassist in pks
Make it a little more difficult for groups to all jump in right away on the victim. Make them put effort into their initiating.

I'll try to think of some cabal related ideas later, if you guys are still open to us players brainstorming some and tossing them out. I'm not really expecting any of these ideas to be implemented, but hopefully it may get the creative juices going in someone far more insightful and creative than me.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker


'Sorry, I'm not 72323slhlst. Or however you say Elite'
-Vynmylak

nt

Is it possible that the reason the ganging largely takes place at hero is because it's become really really hard for one or two guys to raid/retrieve from cabals? That the old system back in day made it easier to make an impact in cabal raids?

You have centurions that can be shrouded and difficult to flee from.
You have outer guards that have decent hp, one exit, and can be difficult to flee from.
You have cabal powers locked away that cannot be released until you manage to defeat the outer.
You have a cabal that flags you when you enter so they can completely erase any magic casting ability and pile on special guards.
You have a cabal with one entrance through wilderness so that anyone fears retrieving if there is a single ranger in PK.
Etc.

To me, it seems like players came up with a natural and easy solution to these challenges: pile on more players until you can surmount the challenges with sheer numbers. And it works.

Frankly, I thought the old system was pretty stupid (having to have someone "watch" over the cabal item) - but that was the only drawback to it. On the bright side, it gave the opportunity for active participation by every cabal member. I definately think cabals should be less safe - so you can flee past the inner and not flagged for entering. I definately think cabal pits should be removed and made unguarded by inners. I definately think raiding should not be turned into a "killing field with multiple lines of fire against a hapless enemy" but rather an opportunity for finding PKs.

Anyway, raiding/retrieving turning into Killing Fields and encouraged full looting/sac'ing is my theory for why there's so much ganging at Hero.

Well some random ideas.

* Change the culture, make people disapprove of and refrain from excessive/unnecessary ganging. Easier said then done, but if the imm staff begins to discourage it, things should begin to change.

* Nerf the logistics of big groups. Like hutto said, increase movement lag. Make people fall behind the group while travelling, increase movement cost. Make it smart so it can't be bypassed by complex following charts. (eg everyone follows each other somehow but isn't grouped). Make it slightly annoying for groups of three, and a real pain in the ass for groups of 4 or more. In order to compensate the levelling groups, increase xp gains by some percentage 10% maybe.

* Replace centurions with some other power. They're gang magnets both because raiding with centurions is so dangerous that people going up against them will bring numbers, and they attract empire summoning gangs.

* Make the anti-gang code apply to everything, and not just lagging moves. People start getting in the way of each other and getting hit by friendly fire - attacks, spells and communes(both area and directed). Risk increases exponentially with size of the gang. PK specific change no effects when fighting mobs.

* Lower the power and durations of support spells healers excepted. e.g. invokers can cast five shields on themselves but only two on others.

* Return of the force duel.

>Well some random ideas.
>
>* Change the culture, make people disapprove of and refrain
>from excessive/unnecessary ganging. Easier said then done, but
>if the imm staff begins to discourage it, things should begin
>to change.

I like this.

>* Nerf the logistics of big groups. Like hutto said, increase
>movement lag. Make people fall behind the group while
>travelling, increase movement cost. Make it smart so it can't
>be bypassed by complex following charts. (eg everyone follows
>each other somehow but isn't grouped). Make it slightly
>annoying for groups of three, and a real pain in the ass for
>groups of 4 or more. In order to compensate the levelling
>groups, increase xp gains by some percentage 10% maybe.

I could see a random chance of leaving "someone behind" with more than 3 following, as well as big lag and other associated nasties.

>* Replace centurions with some other power. They're gang
>magnets both because raiding with centurions is so dangerous
>that people going up against them will bring numbers, and they
>attract empire summoning gangs.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

>* Make the anti-gang code apply to everything, and not just
>lagging moves. People start getting in the way of each other
>and getting hit by friendly fire - attacks, spells and
>communes(both area and directed). Risk increases exponentially
>with size of the gang. PK specific change no effects when
>fighting mobs.

I think this is a great idea, also something I mentioned a while back. I'd love to see this implemented.

>* Lower the power and durations of support spells healers
>excepted. e.g. invokers can cast five shields on themselves
>but only two on others.

Also a good idea.

>* Return of the force duel.

Meh, not.

>Thoughts on how to fix it? I wouldn't say it's night or day,
>but for about 80% of the time it is. The other 20% is fun to
>watch, fun to be in, but that's just so small.

Thoughts on how to fix gangs or just general boring cabal wars? For gangs, well, put the royal smack down on any honor char participating in gangs. For cabal wars, how about something more interesting that the constant CTF? I thought that went out with the 90's. It's so boring, I haven't bothered with a caballed char other than Herald in a few years.

I know I'd like to see how often I died vs 2, 3, 4, ,5 or whatever as opposed to 1v1. I wager other people would like the same thing to be shown too.

>I know I'd like to see how often I died vs 2, 3, 4, ,5 or
>whatever as opposed to 1v1. I wager other people would like
>the same thing to be shown too.

I'm trying to get the data to be fairly accurate and working out some bugs still in the system before I go throwing it up there.

I for one would really like to see just how often and badly I got ganged down. It may be ego speaking but....well alright it's ego speaking for sure. :P

>I for one would really like to see just how often and badly I
>got ganged down. It may be ego speaking but....well alright
>it's ego speaking for sure. :P

Got to get the accounting right before we do that. Otherwise whatever data we had would be totally wrong and inaccurate and pointless to post retroactively.

>The bigger reason that a lot of people who consider themselves elite PKers aren't on staff is that a lot of those people built their reputation cheating their asses off. It'll be a cold day in Hamsah Mu'Tazz before we start scraping that particular barrel.


Dear Proud Blade:

Shut up.

Sincerely,
Carrion Fields

>Answer that question and then guess that's where the game is
>heading.

For what it's worth, I don't think this necessarily follows. Two players can approach the game in entirely different ways and still enjoy themselves, within the rules, and be fairly successful. One type of player might make a good imm while the other might not. That doesn't imply that the staff is trying to eliminate the second type.


>Thing is, with all the offers out there today very few will
>get introduced to CF and even less entrapped. The game is to
>complex, the action to widespred and the graphic to lame to
>catch on.

True or not, this seems rather anecdotal. When new players chime in, they seem to suggest that depth and role-play area reasons for their sticking with Carrion Fields. Though, I guess we never hear from the ones who leave.


>For the last 5-6 years we have talked about the number of
>people online dropping. Perhaps it drops, perhaps it not. But
>I would be intressed in seeing a statistic about the number of
>people online vs the number of rooms in the game.

Isn't that a fairly arbitrary statistic. Is adding rooms is a bad thing?


>CF simply looks empty. Not something that will make new people
>hang out. I left my first MUD simply because it was
>getting/feeling depopulated.

From what I can tell, we still have more players than the other free text-based alternatives. As long as that remains true I think we're okay.

>Thing is, with all the offers out there today very few will
>get introduced to CF and even less entrapped. The game is to
>complex, the action to widespred and the graphic to lame to
>catch on.

We're certainly getting our butts kicked on the graphics front. :P

I mud because I'm sick of the today's pc games that have top-notch graphics but no depth of plot nor interesting playability.

Maybe it is just me, but it seems that when a new game gets rolled out, designers have tried to improve the graphics, and meanwhile the actual gameplay gets less and less attention.

CF puts you against other humans in an environment where people can continually develop newe tactics. Most games either have crap AI and you figure out its weakness (e.g. wasn't there a version of warcraft that didn't recognise towers as a threat?). Most online games seem to have "proven" tactics that work every time. e.g. the Orc rush early in the game or something.

wasn't there a version of warcraft that didn't recognise towers as a threat?

Back in the days of warcraft I (or was it number 2, I forget), the AI didn't recognise WALLS at all. So you could build a thin line of walls to completely block off an entry point to your base, and the AI would just walk around it. However, the developers came out with a quick solution for that - they just took the ability to build walls away from the player! Genius I tell you ;)