After reflection, my last post about the skill gap in CF seems to mostly focus on the knowledge gap. In fact it seems that most of those discussions eventually end up there... What I really wanted to focus on, but was distracted from, is the skill gap.

What would we need to put in the hands of a new player for them to have the skills to enjoy their time? By skill I mean something like Marcus' ability to chase. This isn't a question on knowledge (mostly), and having been on the bad end of it before, it is truly frightening. Even without windwalk I've felt like he was getting 2 commands to my 1 when getting away... So where are those gaps that we could narrow?

Overhawling the academy would have to be done right. Like major brainstorm right.

But you wont teach a new player to chase likr a vet. But you can teach them to be better at it than most noobs. I think what would be more helpful to a new player is showing them what to gear for as a warrior and what for a mage. Lower the identify level and lore level. Just things like that would help noobs.

Edit: Most noobs dont even have their stats maxed...which would be a greater boon than being able to chase.

I've got news for you:
The only way you're going to compete with someone like Marcus or Nep is to put in the time to learn how to play the game at a higher level.

We don't need to dumb down CF to make it easier for new players (we were all new players once.)

What we need is a shift in the "everybody gets a trophy for participating" culture and its accompanying sense of entitlement.

There are many things that CF could do to make the experience better for new players, but that's largely a matter of figuring out the best way to get someone to assimilate a large amount of information without overwhelming them. I think the academy needs an overhaul and I think it's been years since most of us have tried to look at that area through the eyes of a newbie.

Trying to bridge the gap between the game's best PKers and people playing their first characters is not the way to go.

I'm not saying a newbie needs to be able to be as good as Marcus is at chasing. I'm not as good as he is at chasing and I'm pretty good most of the time. But does anything about logging in to CF and playing for the first time indicate that being able to move very quickly both to and away from targets in PK is an important skill to develop?

If you don't even know what skills you need to develop, how can you bridge the gap?

Also, you should probably re-read my original post since it frames the question better than this one probably did.

There are more and more posts demanding CF be dumbed down. I can only pray it's a vocal minority, I sure as heck don't post much. Just casting my vote. This game rocks. Other muds suck. If CF becomes other muds, I will cry.

I don't need CF dumbed down. I'm not new, bad, or struggling (other than finding time) at CF. What I want is more newb breadz to steal, and if they need 5 years to ramp up to competitiveness with someone like me who has been playing for a decade+, then newb breadz are going to be few and far between cause almost no one would put that kind of time in (especially without a mudding background).

To put it in perspective my brother, a recent college graduate with a huge gaming background but no MUD and no CF experience wanted to play the game after how much he sees me play and talk about it. It took him close to 12 hours to get through the newbie academy and the Simon quest alone. When I explained what took him 12 hours over the course of two days worth of gaming sessions takes me 15minutes + all the gear I know to get along the way he just couldn't conceivably commit to the time investment to get competitive.

I'll be honest knowing the kind of people that play and many of the interests that draw people to this sort of game he is the exact mold of someone who would both love this game and be a contributing member of the community. Short of CF we share almost all other interests in regards to gaming, if it weren't for the sheer number of hours required to ramp up I'm sure he'd be more inclined to continue playing.

I should add he has no job, and is done with school and STILL found the time investment too much. Now put that time sink in perspective for a man (or woman) with a family, a job, school or all three and do the math.

This is what I've been trying to espouse. The wheelhouse for new CF players is your brother, but because of all of the barriers to entry, people never get to the sweet spot of the game to see its true beauty before they are turned off and leave.

-thinnie

IF you're good and care about the RP aspect that is. If it's only PK, then I'm not sure when it starts to work really...

I think my first successfuly PK char came after 3-4 years or something? (Really successful as in 150+ kills.)

..but how do we keep newer players interested in the game when there is so much stacked up against them? How do we keep them to get to that sweet spot? I don't think there's a single veteran out there that is ok with a char which hit a negative pk ratio. But by the laws of mathematics, someone has to and are we going to be keeping those players around if they're losing because in their eyes (true or not true, hard to say) they don't know certain preps or have certain knowledge that veterans have?

Another random thought, is for CF to have an underground competition, where veterans get other players hooked ala Fight Club.

-thinnie

I'd like to add in my perspective and I will say that I think that the hardest and most important aspect is simply getting the feel for the game. It isn't even remotely close in the realm of how other games feel.

What I mean by that is, how many other games do you move by typing directions, see via words and text, move without seeing physically where you're going? The largest hurdle in my opinion isn't prep knowledge, or item knowledge, but just getting the feel for the game, by learning how to move and where to move.

My best example of this would be to pose the question: How many of us turn on short descriptions, almost immediately?

Another good question may be, how do you set your prompt? or what damage types you like? or even if you color improves or affects?

As far as ooc knowledge is concerned, the list of items and mobs that hold them on Dio's was my best friend when I was first learning this game because I could see something, look it up, and then ask about it in game so I could find it. Sadly, I believe that this same mentality isn't taught to people. Having said that, not all people have my reaction, and they'd like nothing more than to simply read what something does, where it is, and skip interacting with people to find it, so long as it provides them with some perceived benefit. The info on Dio's was just vague enough that it acted as a carrot on a stick rather than the finishline it's self. I personally wouldn't mind seeing his list getting some sort of update feature to allow select people to throw item id's and mob names/area names in there but it really isn't needed once a person has a feel for how the game really works.

Overall, I think my point is that it is better to teach people the game, while still in the game, rather than them being able to read it somewhere. As a side effect, you get a monumental amount of ic rp to boot.

I've been playing probably 15+ years, I don't think I've had a character with a positive pk ratio. I just don't play for it. I don't go after people so they're always coming at me prepped and ready.

And I'll add, if you want newbies to stand a chance, we have to teach them to pk. Observation and Explore exp and shinies mean next to nothing against pk know how. Preps are big too. If people really wanted to get new players here, why not comprise a list of shop items instead of trying to destroy the mystery of CF. Newbies aren't going to be marching into quest areas anyway. Most first characters don't make it passed lvl 15, I'd wager. Leave quest areas alone and they'll have something to look forward to.

..and I didn't mean to imply that I was pro-walkthroughs for everything.

Effectively, by changing CF into being more about power gaming and easy rewards, you are making the game more enjoyable to newbies and less enjoyable over all. One cannot reach the heights we currently have where mystery comes into play.

People talk about wanting new players to kill, but it's an RP as well as a PK MUD. There are plenty of PK oriented MUDs. They suck. Go figure. CF is the only MUD we want to play, but people keep trying to change it to be like everything else. Short sighted.

Less enjoyable over all? Remember each of us has a different perspective on what they do and don't enjoy regarding CF. It's for us to keep an open mind about it. I'm not saying complete transparency is good or not good for CF. Maybe a quiet medium, I don't really know. What I am saying is we can't dismiss it without thinking of how it might help spur interest amongst newer players.

There are some CF ripoffs, but none of them have the cabal dynamics and PK intensity like CF does. I've played MUDs where the code from 10 years ago was incredible and probably better then most of CF's best areas, but it wouldn't hold a candle to CF because of the way you feel immersed in CF.

I don't want to change CF, but I do want us to think as a group (immortals and players) to see how CF can progress in a positive way.

-thinnie

And yes, I've played MUDs with absolutely brilliant coders. I've played MUDs where the immortals would talk to people about the code, get an idea from the playerbase, and code it on the spot. An hour later, reboot, changes are in. But the MUD was horrible. No RP.

I think what a lot of people who want this CF guidebook manual aren't stopping to consider is that what makes CF truly unique is the fact that you log on and you are IN Thera. By not knowing who plays who, by not knowing every map and every item, you are immersed in Thera. It becomes more like a real world. Take away these mysteries and you have every other MUD. I want more players too, but not if it's going to to make CF into everything else. I would rather lose more players than have that happen because if I wanted more players at the expense of intrigue, I could just go play one of those other MUDs. I don't, because they're horrible. It's not hard to figure this out.

You need to work on communicating your point. I wouldn't mind seeing new newbie quests and such, though, I don't know if it would have the results you're looking for. Do you remember how hard it is to learn a new mud? Something one tends to forget after years of playing the same one.

Edit: I'll also add I mistook this post for whining about game secrets because your other post was doing the same.

Up until the birth of my daughter I tried at least one new mud every year. I've played everything from MUSH's with no PK or combat to speak of to Pure PK Godwars style muds. I've played MUDs with no classes, and MUDs with no levels. I'll be honest, in most of those I was competitive (whatever that means on a MUSH) within a shorter time then I spend on the my average CF character (~300 hours for something that doesn't delete under 100 hours).

My other post was doing no such thing. While I may not know everything there is to know in CF, the amount of stuff posted to that site I didn't already know is fairly small and generally stuff I don't know because I've never been interested in finding out (K'tengs quest), but I have also often been frustrated with the easter egg hunt or syntax search that is CF. Hell, I dropped 3 con a character I meant to play out in the new prison area explore for sub-35 because I couldn't figure out that 1234 and not 1 2 3 4 was the right answer. That isn't fun for me. Even compilers give better syntax help than that.