So its generally accepted that all mages may not neccesarily find their wands. How about creating an edge that removes all sleek spots for a mage and in exchange they get a set extra amount of HP per rank. They could still use unique wands/staves/scrolls/class abilities but just wouldn't have a set of sleeks.

Maybe adjust it so that at hero they have 150-200 extra HP compared to a mage who has the option of finding sleek wands.

I'll admit I kicked around the idea of a 'Sleekless' flaw and an even worse 'No A/B/S, ever' flaw during the last bit of a revamp to let people potentially have multiple locations via edge/award.

Granted, my version of it would just have made life harder for you.

Also if I implemented something in this vein I think conjurers probably wouldn't be able to have it. It's too easy for an archon or devil based conjurer to just ignore A/B/S wands entirely.

So you've pondered the idea and are open to it. What is your version of it? Allow us (them. Mages are for the weak.) a chance to discuss it. Maybe you'll get some idea or maybe not. Sure, it's dangerous. Someone might spat at you, but hey, maybe something good will come too.

Or.

I can spread misinfo until your eyes bleed and your brain explodes in an attempt to correct it all.

Like how A/B/S is determined by which steps you take through the academy.

My version of it was going to be exactly as described. It's a flaw. It makes your life harder. Like other flaws you get a little bit of edge in exchange but it's an exceedingly bad trade from a pure powergaming perspective.

So basically just a flaw like the ones we have now. No ABS in exchange for a small bit of edge points.

Hell, I'd take no sleek. I *MIGHT* even consider no ABS, but probably would pass for when I actually got to loot people. I'm so godawful at finding sleeks I've just learned to either rely on non-sleek ABS or looting.

Granted, I like it more for its RP opportunity of a tough mage who gets his sleeks exclusively from his enemies' corpses or from his knowledge of limited sources.

But I also think it could cut down on some of the complaints about the sleek system and I don't think that 150-200 HP is enough to make it OP.

In my opinion this would only help strong players way too much where as a newer player trying a mage won't really be all that much more survivable with 150-200 extra hp. However, I imagine vets would take it with almost every char, since who knows if you're going to hit the sleek lottery? Some may spend a while searching for a real easy spot, but otherwise they say no, take the edge, and use other sources. Worse yet, they have a tough spot for their sleek black, and so they take the edge even if they found the sleeks. And vets know enough ways to obtain ABS outside of sleeks generally speaking.

It's easy to farm a non-sleek wand, and really, what mage doesn't want the extra hp when they are not really giving too much up? (A sleek black is powerful and useful, but there are certainly enough non-sleeks to go around- many of which are pretty easy to obtain compared to sleeks)

Throw in the couple of sources of full sleek sets and I don't really imagine many people would have any sort of trouble with this. It's just a pretty significant boost to mage hp without the drawback really matching. If you haven't found your sleeks, being able to just taking an edge to compensate seems a bit too simple.

I'd favor this edge it it was more along the lines of said mages could not use barrier wands at all. Unless the mage is fighting a rager, barrier is rarely a necessity in a fight as it is, but stacking on an additional 150/200 hp (and then just using an alternate set of ABS) seems a bit much, especially since the edge has no drawback in theory- If you search and never found your sleek, who wouldn't take this edge?

Course I think the original intent is to encourage more mages to be created, and thus more targets for his next villager (j/k) :)

Even though I think it would keep more hero mages from deleting due to poor wand locations (hello gnome shifter #5296731 who heroed in 40 hours) I'm just not a fan of the idea as stated because of how easily it can really benefit any vet mage player.

>In my opinion this would only help strong players way too
>much where as a newer player trying a mage won't really be all
>that much more survivable with 150-200 extra hp. However, I
>imagine vets would take it with almost every char, since who
>knows if you're going to hit the sleek lottery? Some may spend
>a while searching for a real easy spot, but otherwise they say
>no, take the edge, and use other sources. Worse yet, they have
>a tough spot for their sleek black, and so they take the edge
>even if they found the sleeks. And vets know enough ways to
>obtain ABS outside of sleeks generally speaking.


Generally speaking its the vets who harp on not finding their wands moreso than newbies. Like pretty much anything someone who is better at a thing will leverage more out of it than someone who is not so good. Keep in mind that as a newer player if you expect to be without sleek wands anyways you are better off with extra HP than you would be without sleeks or extra HP.


I also envision this as being more of a flaw you would have to take pre-level 10. I don't believe a player should get to decide to take it after they have determined they can/cannot find/get their sleeks.


>It's easy to farm a non-sleek wand, and really, what mage
>doesn't want the extra hp when they are not really giving too
>much up? (A sleek black is powerful and useful, but there are
>certainly enough non-sleeks to go around- many of which are
>pretty easy to obtain compared to sleeks)


It is not that easy. Especially if this flaw becomes popular and you have more people competing for the fixed number of non-sleeks. Try keeping a hold of aura/haste talismen and scrolls, its a lot more difficult then wands because of the increased competition.


>I'd favor this edge it it was more along the lines of said
>mages could not use barrier wands at all. Unless the mage is
>fighting a rager, barrier is rarely a necessity in a fight as
>it is, but stacking on an additional 150/200 hp (and then just
>using an alternate set of ABS) seems a bit much, especially
>since the edge has no drawback in theory- If you search and
>never found your sleek, who wouldn't take this edge?

The drawback is you don't have the ability to farm sleek wands. If you don't think finding sleek wands is a significant advantage then you are in the minority of the CF community. The whole, I deleted because I couldn't find my sleeks and can't compete without them issue occurs pretty much every other week or so.

>Course I think the original intent is to encourage more mages
>to be created, and thus more targets for his next villager
>(j/k) :)

"I also envision this as being more of a flaw you would have to take pre-level 10. I don't believe a player should get to decide to take it after they have determined they can/cannot find/get their sleeks."

That's the sort of balancing that makes more sense to me. My bigger problem with the idea was people who did not find the sleek after a while just taking the edge. To me that would have been a huge advantage because it would have been an edge that did not have a lost cost in no sleeks.

If you have to decide at flaw ranks (1-6), then I think it is a much better idea. I imagined it you sort of saw it like Spin the wheel or something with shifters, you get to hero, don't like things, so get to make a change.

You could make it based off of sleek source so you could take one two or all three.
No ambers. +1 hp per level
No siennas. (given all but A-Ps have inherent shield) + 1 hp every three levels.
No blacks. +2 hp per level.

That would net +167 hp just about over fifty levels if you forewent all sleeks.

Having sleeks are an advantage for some over others. Invokers for example, can do just fine with out sleeks, and arguably various shifters can as well. I won't deny having wands is an advantage, and sleeks are preferrable to any other. I just think vets are likely more to find a way to exploit it, and a flaw is not something that should really have any advantages.

To me it's not really a flaw so much as it is just a matter of preference for a player, since some people are deterred from mages just because they don't want to do sleeks, and this edge may not be a bad thing in getting people to try new things.