How do lore and appraise compare?

Is loremaster edge worth it for a gnome/svirf with appraise?

If not, is loremaster edge redundant since anyone can get appraise skill through observation exp?

Should observation exp grant a class skill (appraise)?

Does appraise see a bonus from loremaster edge?

EDIT: Are there reasons why one might want to use lore AND appraise on a particular item?

DOUBLE EDIT: What happens if a thief has the appraise skill and then gets enough observation to get the other appraise skill? Do you get double super awesome appraise (ie. the slay command)?

Appraise is only available through observation XP if you are a bard. No other class can obtain Appraise through observation XP, not even thieves. The only way thieves can get appraise is from the pickpocket path. I know this to be true because I've had a conjurer with around 50k observation, and up to Trade Connections from commerce XP.

The following is a list of observation and commerce skills and a small description of each for those who have never had them, and/or don't understand the help files on each.

Observation skills: (I only remember the XP requirement for Improved Compare)
(1k XP) Improved Compare (more information when comparing to objects)
-----------Improved Consider (more information when considering a mob based on %)
-----------Sharpen Sight (short term infravision (only for races without infravision))
-----------Appraise (identify with total accuracy (Bards only))
-----------Careful Vision (let's you scan further despite lighting or weather (no_scan rooms are still no-_scan))
-----------Attune (Tells you stuff about the current room(info varies per class))
-----------Legendary Awareness (Tells you how limited an item is)
(I may have reversed the order of Attune and Careful Vision)

Commerce Skills (with Xp prereqs):
(5k XP) Inspect Goods
-----------Works exactly like lore but works BEFORE purchasing an item (good for not wasting money to buy garbage)
(10k XP) Prosperous Reputation
------------Noticeably better prices with haggle, all bank fees are waived
(15k XP) Trade Connections
------------Lets you use a shop outside of shop hours, dependent on skill % (It might be 20k XP. I forget)

I think that's a pretty comprehensive list. If I missed a skill somewhere, or if someone else knows the XP requirements for each skill that I missed, feel free to comment.

Lore = Lore
Appraise = Identify
Loremaster = Lore becomes Identify


with lore there can be some variation in the accuracy of your results (weapon AVG, AC values, spells in potions/scrolls/wands/talismen, etc). You don't have that variation with Identify.

Contact Other planes = Identify + lists what kind of progs the item has.

Once you get lore to 100% it is identify. Contact other planes is good for telling you what items prog, not what they do, just that they prog.For all other purposes it is identify that shatters your mind every once in a while.

Loremaster, Appraise, all that just seems like a waste of edgepoints/skill points or whatever.

Identify = Lore = Appraise with Contact Other Planes being = to all three other than the prog thing has been my experience. I never really understood it I guess but I've never felt like I was missing out on anything with explore characters either by not taking edges/advanced lores.

the lore skill can increase the amount of money a shopkeeper will give you for an item.

Other than that I also haven't noticed much difference between perfect lore and everything else.

Every couple years I ask these questions hoping for an answer.

IDK how much Observation exp you need to get this skill but I've had up between 20-30k on several chars and have never received the Appraise skill. I always assumed that it was for thieves only, or I'm just not super good at finding things to observe.

I've never had a thief beyond level 10 or so, but I seem to remember having the appraise skill. Pretty early on too. Of course, that character was built specifically to explore/observe every area by level bracket as he went up.

nt

nt

It's an observation xp skill

Lore isn't as reliable as identify.

Lore doesn't start giving accurate readings on items until 90% to 100%.

As far as I know, conjurers have the best identify with contact other planes.

On the scale of identifying objects it might be:

Most Accurate
Contact other planes
.
.
Identify-loremaster/appraise
.
.
Lore
Least Accurate

That's what it seems like, but if it is simple as that then an edge (loremaster) and a skill (lore) become superfluous. Small peas I guess, just seems a bit odd and hoped for more.

Also odd that anyone can get a class skill (appraise). More so since it's a class skill specific to a certain specialization within that class.

I wonder if a pickpocket thief could save thief points by getting the appraise skill from observation experience before having to take the skill.

But I think it could be possible with gentle walk at 100%. However, it can fail at 100% at somewhere like 1/100 times for me. Love that skill.