How many of the sienna, amber and black locatons have 'never' been discovered yet?

How many people have taken the shield, aura and barrier attunement egdes since they started and is there any link to a certain location and the number of times these edges have been taken?

I am not asking for a specific location, obviously, but was curious after speaking to someone about the system and them saying that they delete delete if they get 'hard' locations, which is very powergamey and made me question why I don't and just try to manage with the locations I have been given, even when it makes a character seem weak compared to said powergamey person who only plays the characters when they can have that ABS on tap.

Thanks in advance,

>one post
>everything goes up in flames
>abernyte doesn't say anything more

I am now breaking my rule about replying to complete douchebags such as yourself, as I usually just ignore you like the 'low-level disruptor' that you are but I don't like being made to seem like a troll when it wasn't.

I asked a legitimate question based on some information that came my way about some players attitudes to ABS. The same players are regarded as 'elite' because they are always very successful in the PK department. Now this is largely due to having ABS 'on tap' every character and them being able to throwdown with everyone and anyone at anytime.
My recent info shed light on the fact that these people do have characters that are 'gimped' in their words because of having ####ty or unfindable ABS locations and so they 'delete delete' rather than do as I do and tough it out and make do with limited sources and so sometimes avoid a fight or get your ass kicked because when you went to your locations of limited wand locations they were all gone.

These same people are the ones that likely dont put a role in until they have ascertained if they do have a decent ABS roll or if playing shifters, get the minor forms they want. I put my role in as soon as I have it and so invest in the character before the RNG potentially weakens me compared to someone elses in terms of forms or ABS.

This post was NOT, Tesline, about not being able to find wands to cover gaps in the ABS but was more about bringing it into a more 'normal' progression rather than the extremes people go through of: Crap locations - delete or Awesome locations - PWN

I have, over a long time, helped many people find wands in the game and in doing so built up a decent list of places and possible places and despite having 18 confirmed locations of sienna rods, cant for the life of me find my current characters sienna so I began to wonder if, like certain items as yet undiscorvered (hunted to by various Imms over the years) there were some wand locations that hadn't been discovered yet. Daevryn replied and I was happy with the reply.

Gapelmo then replied with the possibility of the two locations that give you sienna, amber and black rods and I replied to say that I loved the idea though I did not ellaborate as to why but it does a few things I find quite positive:

1) Increases the chances of getting ABS rods rather than limited wands so increases the PK rather then the PK avoidance.

2) Aids newer players as they now have double the chance of discovery.

3) Reduces the chance of '#### locations' or 'Impossible to get locations'.

4) Doesn't particularly aid powergamers who would have just deleted and rerolled but does help people tap into the BIG hero gang fights and CF has turned into the big hero gang fights rather than the 1 on 1.

5) Stops powergamers with good ABS knowledge from camping at your ONLY barrier location to catch you as you might decide to use your other one that day.

6) Stops people from feeling 'gimped' because they needed to use all their edge points on attunement edges and give up on the other edges that the guy next to them does get to choose by virtue of, not being a better player/explorer or ooc info sharer, but just getting 'lucky'.

I saw that the Imms didn't like it and it is their game and not ours so I did not bother arguing about it. I got my reply from Daevryn and responded to Gapelmo's suggestion and the thread was done for me and THAT was why there were no other responses from me.

Respond with your usual but I wont break my rules again to reply to you again.

Disclaimer: Typos and grammar errors are the result of typing quickly between classes and my lack of really caring too much about written language, other than reading it, so apologies to anyone offended by it.

nt

It just seems very power gamey to me but if thats how you want to play play that way. Its just not my forte and I would rather RP and try and last it out. It just doesnt make much sense. Right now I havent had a good character because Im experimenting but right now I have a character in the works that is going to last 200-400 hours. It isnt even a mage and it will have aura and shield on hand for 90% of its life. I know your not complaining but you let allowed the whiny people to come out and complain.

~

I just wanted to voice what I thought was a good idea. Nothing more.

and I still like your idea.

>How many of the sienna, amber and black locatons have 'never'
>been discovered yet?

I don't think any.

>How many people have taken the shield, aura and barrier
>attunement egdes since they started and is there any link to a
>certain location and the number of times these edges have
>been taken?

I don't have statistics handy but they don't seem to get picked much.

Since you guys seem to encourage people coming up with a way to fix wands that isn't a pain in the ass recode or proves to be "better" than the current system in place, I thought I would try my hand at a simple answer.

Does my idea seem like it might be a viable thing to try? Or do you think it would create game balance issues.

I don't think it solves the problem that there would be some people still bitching out there, but speaking for myself, I would be much, much more inclined to play another AP or start playing mages more regularly.

Input maybe from big D?

Another solution for this is that if the attunement edges were much, much, much cheaper to take. Like one of the cheapest edges, not one of the most expensive. Im talking like mana flood cheap. I am willing to bet the attunement edges are not taken much because they are SO expensive, that by the time people feel they need them, they basically won't have a chance to take them till well after hero, because they spent some of their edge points and never catch back up because they didn't "save" them until the sleek hunt went bad...which I think is unfair that every mage should have to do.

You want to make it twice as easy to find wands. How is that a "better" system and not simply making the current system half as effective/hard?

I don't care much either way on the issue, but I'm going to guess this is how the Imms will see it.

Find it or not, it still might be impossible for you to get. Impossible. I mentioned earlier I knew someone that got an underwater amber wand on a shapeshifter with no water form. How the hell is that fair? Thats not a hard to get wand...thats a impossible to get wand.

I can find my wands in an hour generally on all my mages. Gathering is a different story. I manage, and never bitch about it. But how many times have you heard people say they refuse to play a mage because of the sleek system. Don't you want the people that cant ever find their sleeks to have a better chance too?

My system would put 2 sleeks in place for every mage. That doesn't mean they will be in pick up spots. You might very well get 2 impossible black spots, or something like the underwater scenario i mentioned, or you might get lucky and get an easy one. It wouldnt change anything at all for vets. Vets find their wands, regardless. It would help the not so pro players have a few options is all. It would only help the people that absolutely cant find that 1 sleek rod in a 20,000 + room mud. Limited wands are just that...Limited. Woe is the poor guy that cant get sleeks, and the limiteds are hoarded by vets that just don't want to bother with the really difficult sleeks they have.


It was a bad idea I guess, and I dont want to try and make a big deal out of it. What big Daev says is the last word...and I am totally ok with that, hes the boss. Not trying to start a bitchfest, that was not my intention at all. But the system would cater to the newer players, or non serial mage players, a lot more then it would cater to the serial mage players and vets. We already have full wand lists. Think about all the people that don't?

I don't have a strong feeling about it, but I don't really see it as an improvement.

Also, I give a roughly 40% chance Zulg would flip the 'all preps are gone' switch if I implemented it.

What is with all the take my ball and go home comments lately? First Zulgh with multiple I'll shut the whole damn thing down, I'll pull all the Wands, Sacer's I'm not gonna be awesome anymore cause two or three people are jerks, and here another reference to yanking wands. When did the Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" become the official response to player feedback? I honestly think at this point it might be better to make these forums just read only and allow comments on Battlefields and that's it. Would save a lot of aggravation for everyone.

Seriously. You aren't helping. You know what would help? If you stopped posting.

Yes every single thing I post is a huge bitchfest, you got me. How dare I speak my mind when it's not a popular opinion. Maybe you can burn me at the stake for my heresy. God damn opinion havers, and posting on a public forum at that, what has the world come to!

It is always something with the vocal majority. Most players wont respond to these kinds of post due to the fact they realize that your wrong. The imms are a bit obligated to reply even though it must be tedious. On every mage I have ever had wands with I just gave away my wands because I never needed them to pk. With those mages I went even pk ratios or better. This isnt about the wands being hard to find or being so many locations this is about not always having ABS on hand everytime you make a mage and someone else who probably spent a long time finding their wands actually having them and winning a few fights. I have been playing for less than 3 years and I am sure you can find atleast one limited barrier and anywhere from 6-10 aura/shield preps that are nonsleek because I have found that many over time. Not including scrolls/artifacts.

It is sad with all the complaining though because the imms do a lot for this game and they see more than you do. You would think they would have better insight about game balance/wand finding than you.

PS. My guess is the imms are tired of agruing the same point over and over so they have their trump card. Turn off all preps. Either way I dont care. Right now it is balanced.

Meaning, I doubt you had a character that half the mud couldnt kick the #### out of unless you got lucky.

Sure, you CAN play a mage without using them. You might even kill a couple newbies.


Please name your PK successful mages that didn't use wands that were not defense shapeshifters. Guarantee you aren't fighting ragers, or any decently tough hero and succeeding without a gang. An AP will never reach his potential without ABS. Neither will a necromancer.


A guy like you that doesn't care if he litters the ground with corpses every couple fights sure wont care. But for the guys that want to be competitive, not having ABS is a game breaker, flat out.


I bet anything you haven't had a badass character that didn't use ABS, so stop spreading misinfo please. Any vet worth his salt knows that at the top levels, its make or break. That's a fact. You think Tavlin, Zorszaul, Cabdru, Istendil, Frismud, Fjodir, Onya, or ANY of the tough mages could have did it without ABS? You are sadly mistaken.

The time it takes you to write and complain about this the more time you could of been looking for wands. I dont play mages much but it was an offensive/Utillity shifter Rhino and some monkey form. I killed Ragers and a lot of things. Just because I am not a convservative player doesnt make my opinion less valid. And It isnt misinfo misinfo is that mages NEED ABS to be strong. It helps but you dont need it. You can find non sleek versions too and with you being such a "Vet" This shouldnt be that hard for you. should it?

Someone else complained about ABS, I posted what I thought was a well thought out solution. I have never, ever, ever had an issue not having full ABS with any character of mine. Ever. Honestly, I could care less. It was more about catering to newer players, helping them reach some semblance of gameplay with the top dogs.

And what you said is misinfo. If you are content being a middle of the pack player, by all means, don't use ABS. You will never, ever, EVER be considered an epic all time great foe without it. That is a fact, and I invite you to name 1 single mage that broke that top end barrier without ABS.

Just because you are content not being at the top, doesn't mean everybody else is. It's a competitive game, with rewards when you win, and penalties when you lose. Like I said, you're not going to get to the top with your style of play, if you just ignore ABS.

I dont get why people are complaining about it...and another thing is Pk isnt the main thing about getting to the top/rewards. I dont play for either I play to have fun and make it fun for others. Lately I have been failing at that but Im aiming to get better. The solution likely is a good one and i have read it but that wont stop people from whining and bitching. I get where your coming from I made a mistake on thinking you wrote..was very aggro before due to loads of work. I am just saying you dont need sleeks to be good..there are a lot of limited sets that most dont know about. This thread is a joke because its all about people whining...One day I will be one of the top pkers on CF..and I will be able to RP very well too...right now Im working on RP. Anyways I dont believe ABS should be changed..I read my posts and obviously I didnt get that point across correctly.

I just didn't want people to view me as being a complainer in this whole thing. It was just an idea, like I said, it affects me very little either way. Was just throwing it out there for discussion, and the whole thing ended up going all vile on me. I realize I can be a little aggressive sometimes in my arguments, I could probably work on that. But I was never really complaining, just trying to give constructive ideas. I don't expect the staff to like or accept all my ideas, but I do like to post them sometimes to get feedback. Sometimes I just throw them out there, we all have our ideas on how to improve CF.

> and here
>another reference to yanking wands.

I didn't create the fabled wand switch and I'm not itching to deploy it. I'm just telling you what's up.

I was just trying out an idea. Harmless input from a vet that thought he had a positive solution to people bitching all the time. It seems a little rough that Zulg would rather take out all preps, then implement my idea. Good lord was it that bad of an idea? :(


Like I said, I wish I never even posted it now. I don't come to the officials to bitch, I never have, and I don't plan to. I was just putting an idea out there, under somebody elses frustrated post. Had I known it would be a whine and bitch fest, I would have never posted.

I honestly think it's an incredible idea. As you said, it's not nearly that intensive effort wise and it really helps new players as well as those who just haven't had the heart to delve into the a/b/s system.

The only thing that might be a worry is that the Imms who came up with the wand strategy may have wanted to lock a person down to one spot in order for the mage's arch-enemies to be able to lock them down to that spot and harass them there.

-thinnie

>What is with all the take my ball and go home comments lately?

For me, because I'm sick and tired of it all. It's not fun. Pretty much every post that get any traction here are bitchfests. My hobby has turned into a more drama-filled environment than my day job. Why would I want to do that voluntarily?

After I wrote the switch for preps I left CF for almost 6 weeks. I came back slowly and did some infrastructure work for Sacer for the seasonal races and helped solidify the idea. Now I'm wondering if I should have just walked away.

>When did the Cartman "Screw you guys, I'm going home!" become the official response to player feedback?

When it's a repeat of the same conversation/bitching/moaning we've had for years and nothing new is added to it. I hate ABS, Deathblow is overpowered, Why do we allow looting, Why do you allow ganging, His rewards were bigger than mine, Why can't I tell shapeshifters by name, etc.

When we introduce something brand new to the game, and it's instantly crucified without even trying it or seeing it play through one season.

As it stands I have zero motivation to add anything at all to this game anymore. The terrorists have won.

I've suffered similar. Forum nonsense affects the game, it's players, and obviously its administrative staff in a pretty negative way. The culprits obviously will never learn. Start banning them or shut down the forums. People will still play CF.

Maybe we should give players a gamer score like in xbox live.

Where positive modding from others could build up their rating so people could get an idea who is helpful and maybe who is rude.

Also, I just rated you.

pfhaahfhahfah

nt

Stop being an imm for a bit, play a char and have some fun!

Its supposed to be fun.

Damnit!

#### that ####, and #### the negative douchebags.

If you aren't having fun doing this, I completely understand and sympathize. But if it is someones crappy attitude that is pushing you away they need to be the ones to take the walk.

Sorry Zulg, but you are much loved because you don't put up with that kind of crap!

If you decide to walk, remember that the non-vocal majority is constantly impressed with the effort. It is just a shame the vocal minority spends more time spitting vitriol.

First day on the Internets? :P For someone who has his own blog where he writes scathing reviews of other peoples games, you sure take it personally. CF forums for the last two decades have always had people who gave feedback on things, and like any forum some of it comes across with a lot less tact then it should. But to act like the forums need to be one big circle jerk about how everything about the game is perfect and you guys are the greatest is never going to happen, for any game, anywhere. Hell as far as I can remember they have always been exactly like this, so why suddenly so sensitive. Don't take that personally it's just how it is, and for every "I don't agree with this" post there are usually quite a few "love" posts to you guys. Hell I remember playing when you were a Mort with us and you didn't have the greatest relationship with the Imms of the time or were happy with everything they did either. At the end of the day you have carried the torch with pride and distinction for a long ass time, but if you aren't feeling it anymore then pass it on to someone to take up that mantle. As much as you guys love to act like it sometimes you didn't invent CF and though you've added a ton to make it the great game it is today, it can survive after you if you allow it. Maybe it's time to release the iron grip you guys fought so long to have and allow new Imms who can code take over and take more of a Julius type role. Sadly I think though the group that now runs the game would rather see it die then pass it on to the next generation like it was passed to them. I wish you the best and am grateful for all you've done for the game, but don't allow CF to die just because you don't have the passion for it anymore.

>For someone who has his own
>blog where he writes scathing reviews of other peoples games,
>you sure take it personally.

I assume you are talking about my True Achievements blog, and I'd hardly call them scathing. I'm just offering my opinion of games I play to anyone who wants to read it. I'm not chasing down the developers of the game and telling them their product sucks and must be changed like this!

>But to act like the forums need to be one
>big circle jerk about how everything about the game is perfect
>and you guys are the greatest is never going to happen, for
>any game, anywhere.

Why do you think this is what I want? You are a master of making your own view of everything up and preaching it as gospel, and yours are the first set of posts I should just start ignoring.

>As much as you guys love to
>act like it sometimes you didn't invent CF and though you've
>added a ton to make it the great game it is today, it can
>survive after you if you allow it.

Again, more #### you're making up. I don't know anyone on staff who thinks they invented CF.

>I assume you are talking about my True Achievements blog, and I'd >hardly call them scathing. I'm just offering my opinion of games I >play to anyone who wants to read it. I'm not chasing down the >developers of the game and telling them their product sucks and >must be changed like this!

I would hardly call my posts here scathing either and I wouldn't call posting on a public forum chasing you down. To be fair I've never told you CF sucks and it MUST be changed! I don't think I've ever said anything you have implemented has "sucked" besides how wither works with age. :P I do however voice my opinion about the way certain things are implemented with my ideas on how they might be improved. I thought that's what forums are for. I've also complimented the staff dozens of times as well but I see we are ignoring that.

>Why do you think this is what I want? You are a master of making >your own view of everything up and preaching it as gospel, and >yours are the first set of posts I should just start ignoring.

Because any critism is now met with such hemming and hawing about how we don't appreciate anything you do. So if we aren't allowed to criticize anything because you guys take everything as a personal barb instead of just a discussion about the game what else is the forum for? As for making my own opinion about things and preaching it as gospel, I'm not even sure what that means. I have through my experiences developed an opinion, why wouldn't I treat what I believe to be correct as correct? Sorry you don't agree with my opinion but trust me I don't just pull it out of thin air.

>Again, more #### you're making up. I don't know anyone on staff who thinks they invented CF.

I'm not making anything up, I'm saying you can "act" like you own it, because of the if you are done with CF then CF should cease to exist attitude. It implies ownership. Perfect example is you threatening to shut down CF. Or threatening to yank out all the wands, which apprently none of the other staff has a say in. At least what Deavryn implied in his post.

At the end of the day is having the person in charge of the game someone who admitedly is sick of the player base and has lost passion for the game, good for the game? There are people lined up who want to contribute, maybe it's time to step aside for a while and let them.

P.S. I know you are taking my posts personally but they really aren't meant as any kind of attack against you. I've just never been the type of person to sit quietly in the corner when I have a strong opinion about something.

Addendum: Just got informed that you basically own the whole magilla and it's not the "group commune" for lack of a better phrase that I thought it was with Julius still being the silent benefactor and everyone being volunteers including yourself. Sorry that really changes my whole premise I based the last few posts on, but hey it's not like it's common knowledge. So yeah, guess you can do whatever the hell you want with it, I'll shut up now. You have finally become the true Emperor of CF. :)

See, these snarky comments are what makes being an Imm feel like they're unappreciated and, quite frankly, want to leave their hobbies.

I'll guarantee that 99% of the playerbase would rather have your ass banned from the game than have Zulgh leave.

And this reflects back to some of the other posts - there are some assholes in the game, who in real life, as assholes. And that's especially obvious when you post #### like this up. When almost EVERY OTHER POST in this thread is asking Zulgh to stay on as an admin and code for the game that he, and everyone else, spent years of their personal time and life, in making better, you say some douchey childish #### like 'You have finally become the true Emperor of CF'.

And the funny thing is, you HAD to post this #### up. What was your purpose? And this is a legit question.

My purpose of pointing your ####ish behavior is to state that YOU ARE A ####ING #### and to have the admins who spend a ####ton of their lives coding this game to disregard your posts.

.

I honestly meant the Emperor comment as a joke to lighten the mood. I guess I failed miserably in that. The whole addendum to my post was because of the mysterious curtain they have pulled over how this game works I had no idea that it is for all intents and purposes his game now. So my comments earlier were actually wrong and it was meant to be a semi-apology.

However, how am I an asshole exactly for these posts? Because I tried to explain that me making suggestions about the game on a public forum aren't some kind of personal attack against the staff? Why is that even necessary to begin with. Because I suggested that Zulgh take a break if he is so unhappy instead of threatening taking down the game? Give me a break. This is the same guy who said he doesn't ####ing care when I asked him about the cheating accusations made by a senior Imm, all swept under the rug. Sorry I don't hold the staff as some unquestionable and unfailing Gods outside the game as well like what's left of the player base does. It's this kind of awesome player relations that has hurt the game these last few years.

So you know what, enjoy when it's 10 of you left playing total you can wonder what happened. Sorry for giving a #### about the game I've been playing for almost 20 years more then the Imms fragile egos. I won't be posting on these forums again, enjoy.

God, why are these forums filled with douches? Atleast there are some decent people on here.

I think the staff should ban people for being douchbags to the staff like ORB is being right now. You shouldnt have to put with with that ####. Its a forum, it is a privilage to be able post. One that can be taken away.

If we do that, then we will be labeled as draconian. (Not that we probably aren't already.) That, and there would only be five of you left. :p

Gods, we can barely handle one of me. But five! Oh noes!

Plus, we could play an evil campaign, draconian isnt so bad. :)

Yes, that label is already there. I'm starting to think maybe we should at least earn it. :P

I suggest plastic surgery for big pointeh teeth, red eyes, and rabbit scales. Throw on the wings from your succubus holloween costume (yes, we know you are a cross dresser) and there you go. Fire breath? Easy: 1 part onion, 2 parts garlic, 10 parts chlorine triflouride, 1 x match stick.

I've always had good interactions with the staff for the most part.

Except one imm in particular (not you) -- one that I will avoid and will never have a follower of.

That and I will never forgive you and Isildur (atleast I think it was Isildur that played the duergar shaman) for summon, bashing Zephon with Hunsobo. :P ;)

>Why can't I tell shapeshifters by name, etc.

That is not the gist of my post at all. I posted about being worried about people abusing game mechanics (Or what I think is an abuse, and what those who replied to it seem to think is an abuse) and listed the only ideas I could think of to solve the problem.

And now constructive posts like that are considered whining.

I get that it's really rought having 1/100th of CFs playerbase constantly bitch and whine about stuff you do or don't, and that is has been like that for years. But if it's really that rough, then take an extended timeout from CF, or just stop reading/replying to the forums.

Your reply won't stop me though, from posting my thoughts and ideas about things.

>>Why can't I tell shapeshifters by name, etc.
>
>That is not the gist of my post at all. I posted about being
>worried about people abusing game mechanics (Or what I think
>is an abuse, and what those who replied to it seem to think is
>an abuse) and listed the only ideas I could think of to solve
>the problem.

I appreciate the original issue, you provided a solution that has been repeatedly shot down (I think it gets asked almost every year in Santa Zulg) as it is very much part of the design of shapeshifters.

Not a complaint, just curious.

The wary ocelot can forest blend. If I am the wary ocelot and blended into the forest, can someone speak to a "ocelot" and speak to me? Even though I am hidden? I am speaking of someone without detect hidden or detect camo, etc.

If so and that is what you want, I am fine with it, just curious is all.

Thanks!

From my experience, No. Forest blend, Sand Blend, etc are just like Camo but are terrain dependent. However, the mechanics for not being seen on "where" command for a water form is different from surface blend or deep blend. If a person is surface or deep blended then they shouldn't be able to receive tells from someone who can't see them.

This is from what I can recall and may not be 100% correct but I think it is pretty darn close.

Have you ever considered that at least half of the people who play this game are whiny ####s? There is a reason I spend half my time full-saccing people.

I don't think I've ever "formally" complained about anything or demanded anything be changed, ever. I do think deathblow is a stupid skill, I'll bitch about it because it's what it is and I don't like it and am 80% more likely to full anyone who has it(though I think this is a case of correlation and not causation). But so what? In the end I'd rather deathblow and the few other things I dislike about this game be what they are than not have the game as I know it to play. I'm never going to leave because of deathblow, in fact I love beating on the people who roll up rbws and generally giving them a hard time(even if it's a huge time-sink to do successfully).

I can't think of any insightful way to put this, without saying it the same way it's been said a million times, but I do think it's true: don't let it get to you. You are appreciated. I'm always ranting about how you're a badass, and recently how about Scar is a boss, just not publicly generally.

And even for the ninnies who think they actually dislike you(I think you'd be hard pressed to find one), you still contribute a huge amount of enjoyment to us all by having done so much for the game, you've made a permanently beneficial investment, and even if you leave(as long a you don't flip any game-breaking switches out of grief) we will continue to enjoy it for, hopefully, a long long time.

I know what it feels like for it to seem like your job is to just have people get pissed off at you, stomp off angry, or always be disappointed no matter what you do, that your job is impossible because people expect more than you can reasonably deliver. But as long as you care you should know there will always be the few who genuinely appreciate your service, will always come back, always be (ultimately)happy with it, and be devastated if you ever disappeared.

It's not your responsibility to keep doing this, but I'm not going to watch you slide away with "nobody appreciates me bawwww"

If you're tired of it take a break, chill, maybe don't ever come back, or just play characters. But don't walk away thinking it was a waste of time. I am quite serious when I say don't know where I'd be if I never bumped into this game, but I'm willing to bet not in a very good place.

And I don't think you HAVE to deal with the drama, I really don't. How about you just aspire to ignore it? We're not going anywhere if you don't listen to us bitch, seriously.

You must have forgotten how addictive this game is.

I'm not trying to discourage you from explaining how you feel about our general attitudes, or how you feel about this job in general, I just don't want you to be a nancy about it and leave forever, because we ####ing love you.

This is a GREAT game. Over the 8 years I've played NOTHING has compared, and I am anything but a casual player of anything.


This is how you are viewed. How do you think all the childrens would feel if you just walked away and stopped giving presents ever, even the good kids?

Though, Santa's pretty damn smart, he doesn't let any snot-nosed brats talked to him through any means but one-way conversation letters.

I originally voted to not set up a forum (Luddite that I am). Frankly I think getting rid of it would dump a lot of these problems. Let the complainers whine and complain on Dio's where it is easy to ignore them.

Didnt know you existed honestly but that idea is good...nothing good ahs ever come from these forums...just make a battlefield. Delete any posts that arent useful and let people say goodbyes thats it.

We can drink beers, sing songs, and generally have a good time (this is mostly tongue-in-cheek because you'd probably never ever take me up on this).

If CF loses you, it's done IMHO.

Just take some time off, find why you enjoyed this game in the first place (or, for you, why you enjoyed being an IMM).

#### everyone else. Their opinion doesn't really matter in that aspect. Don't like the whining? Don't listen to it. Don't even pay it any attention.

And to many other imms of course.

Look at this another way:


Something you created is SO COOL that it provokes very hard emotions in so many people. It's something many people are dreaming about all their lives, but don't manage to do it with any success.

I know what a drain all those a-hole posts can be.

The funny thing is, I'm actually having a pretty good time playing random The Third punching bags downstairs and I'm logging at least part-time hours. My right eye is actually tracking well enough now that I don't get the headaches from the scrolling text anymore. :P

You (all) need me to come back upstairs? I wasn't the strongest contributor the first time around and totally flopped on my second chance, but I'd be willing to try doing some biatch work and crack jokes with my own personal flair if it helps stabilize the mood up there. And you know I'm basically immune to the internal drama. :P

If you need me to come off the bench, coach(es), I'm here for you.

Q-Doba

Bastard panda.

We miss you Q!

Haters gonna hate.

Give every mage 2 sienna spots, 2 amber spots and 2 black spots. That would be without edging for attunement. Keep the spots the way they are now. That gives a much easier chance of finding one if one of yours happens to be in a spot you would never find, at least there is another out there. The timer would be the same, so if you went and got one sienna, the other wouldn't pop until the wait timer was up on either spot, just like attunement works now. You would still have to deal with some of the #### spots and mobs, but less mages would delete in frustration, guaranteed. Lets face it, the attunement edges are WAY expensive, like, the most expensive edges there are almost, and if you have to take one, you really cripple your character compared to people that got "lucky"

Leave the attunement edges in the game, as is, so if a guy is REALLY unlucky, and flat out cant find the ones he has, then at that point he has the option to waste a full list of edge points to attune where he is having issues.

It's simple, you wouldn't have to change the whole wand system, less people would delete because of getting #### wand spots because everyone would have a second set (though if you got 2 #### sets, thats just life, and life sucks sometimes), and it makes it so the attunement edges feel worth it for the edge points they take....Basically a whole list of edge points for that attunement to a third spot, if you were that unlucky.

You would still have to deal with the mobs that had your wands, it's not like they would be passed out like candy. It would just cater a little better to the casual player.

I consider myself a pretty thorough explorer, and rarely ever don't find my wands, but I find myself without a sienna wand at the moment, and it's insanely frustrating. That is supposed to be the easy one, and I'm 20k observation + and still haven't come across it. I'm starting to believe some of the spots are just a little too far out to cater to todays CF, especially newbies and casual players. Just my humble opinion.

Cuts out the 'lucky' factor and 'delete delete' factor without making it too easy!

Great idea, had to take attunment on my latest and it just sucks knowing you are giving up so many edge points versus people who just got lucky with their spot or have some kind of list being handed around.

I don't know/care about ABS, so I'm not taking aside, but this kind of made me chuckle:

"(though if you got 2 #### sets, thats just life, and life sucks sometimes)"

Could easy be changed to:

"(though if you got 1 #### set, thats just life, and life sucks sometimes)"

In both cases I imagine there is unhappy power gamers.

The current system promotes cheating, heavily. Either you have a wand list, like 90% of the vets have, myself included. (self compiled or not, most everyone that plays CF has some kind of list in some form)

The system is catered heavily to people that share wand locations OOC, or the person with the most friends. If you try to do it all in game, and dont have the luxury of friends to ask, you can sort of get a crap deal. And asking people in game is cool, but really, its mostly ineffective. You might get a few wand spots to check from helpful people, but some characters like APs, necros, evil conjies, they aren't gonna find many allies to ask. A goodie sure, but what about that Scarab muter? Or the evil tribby AP that nobody likes? They're just sort of #### out of luck, unless they find their 3 sleeks in the 20,000 + room mud. It's just too much at times. My system doesn't eliminate the sleek hunt, it just ups their chances of finding one a bit.

Take yourself out of your vet shoes, and look at it from the eyes of a new player, someone on their first year of CF. I've seen basically all of the sleek spots, and a new player wont have a prayer in hell finding some of them. Putting each character to 2 slots gives them more of a chance, the power gamers will still find their wands regardless. Should mages be a class only for the elite? Because I seriously, seriously doubt that a newbie is going to have the edge points to attune, probably ever.

And yeah, if you got 2 crap spots, you would be sorta #### out of luck. You would still have the option of working towards attunement edges, but this idea wasn't catered to giving every mage ABS on a stick. My idea when I came up with it was to keep people from deleting what could be an otherwise great character, that ended up with an impossible to find/get wand set. It would give the more casual mage players a fighting chance. (and some are flat impossible. Sleeks on underwater mobs for shifters that don't have a form that go in water? How is that at all balanced? I know at least one person that got that dice roll.)

You can't make everybody happy, the imms know it, and we have seen it all over these forums lately. But I think this solution just makes the current system bearable. I appreciate any input from anyone, if you like the idea, then speak up! Maybe if enough people like it they would be willing to give it a try. It would still make the wand hunt something that happened, but crap, I doubt people would get stuck and delete cause they "just didnt get good spots, or spent 100 hours and just couldn't find their sleeks"

I've never played a mage beyond like 27. I wasn't trying to *harshly* critisize your idea. I was just throwing out there what came to mind reading your post. Like I said, I have no stake in this fight. Mages aren't my gig.

Now to take off my vet shoes. As a new player I'm not rolling a mage. I'm rolling one of the suggested classes right on the creation screen. Just like I did when I started. That's just me, and isn't meant as a "you are wrong" statement. Just me taking off my sweet ass vet shoes.

Oh man, nice to let the dogs out now and then.

They sound like very nice shoes.

Honestly I get pointed out at least one or two potential wand locations with every one of my non mage chars by random happenstance.

When I do play mages almsot every single one eventually is asked by a hero bard/healer/uncaballed mage if they want me to let them drag me around looking for my spots.

Thats all unsolicited stuff. Getting help on where to look for wand locations is obviously happening OOC a lot but its nowhere near difficult to get help for it IC. Unless you play the game in a very vitriolic manner that drives people away from wanting to interact with you.

And if you don't have enough dam redux its time to start focusing on your battlefield manipulation skills. Get good at that and you won't NEED to compensate for inferior tactics/strategy with extra dam redux. A good gold grind can keep you flush with lots of buyable potions to mitigate the need for wand based protections, heck you can buy aura, protection, stone skin, haste, slow, and desensatize in commonly frequented areas.

That doesnt make sense...as I have seen first hand and read from the forums...and have had all my wands. You dont need them to have a sucessful mage. To me a mage with ABS are very powerful and can destroy most nonmages easily. A mage with just AS is about equal to the average nonmage. None well if you cant find atleast aura and shield at hero you shouldnt be playing a mage. I dont understand the complaining. Idk seems like everyone wants to fix something that isnt broken.

I heroed 2 mages without ever finding one sleek.

Third mage found sleek black.

Fourth mage found full set (back when they were sets)

Fifth mage found full set (and the set was absurdly easy)

Sixth mage found sleek black (after the sets were taken out)

Seventh mage found full set.

Eighth mage found full set.

Current mage has found one.

I think you should have play two or three mages before you can gather enough evidence to compile your own list.

If all mages were meant to have ABS on tap, then Zulg would have given them all the spell.

Sometimes u actually find ur location but it sucks to get for the class of mage u are. Another location would make it so it doesnt fwwl like u r slamming ur #### in a car door every time u go to get that sleek

The same peolpe would still be crying they can't find any/both of their wands in 3 hours on every character.


I honestly don't know why you would even bother looking for a sienna anymore. I can't recall the last time ANY unique shield wand I was looking for was maxed out. Heck you can even summon mobs with unqiue shield/aura if you need them in a pinch.

Why not just drastically lower the cost of the first time taking for attunement edges?

Beyond the whole "statistically slightly more likely to find one vs. not finding one" thing.

It also provides mages who find their wand spots have been discovered by their enemies the option to try and find a second source, rather than spend their whole lives trying not to get PKed at their now known source.

> rather than spend their whole lives trying not to get PKed at their now known source.

But that's sort of one of the draws of the current system, from my perspective. :P

I don't really think any options are eliminated, though, just expanded upon.

It gives the mage the option to try and find a new one. If he fails - you're in the same boat as the old system. If he succeeds - the enemy has to respond by finding his second spot. Same strategy works, there's just another stage of action/response that can be pursued.

Seems to add cushioning for newbie mages - and options to shake things up a little for long-lived ones, without taking any strategy away from their enemy, really.

You enjoy people stalking your wand locations to try to get you.

Makes sense - I can see that.

I've suggested this before, so it's sort of a rehash.

-Increase amount of personal sleek wands.
-Make a sleek wand to switch new location after you've gotten it from one location.
-Increase the amount of limited, non-sleek ABS available.

MOAR sleek locations = LESS effective wand lists.

>>but I find myself without a sienna wand at the moment, and it's insanely frustrating<<

Seriously? You can't rock a limited shield wand? The fact the spell allows you to have shield up for most battles isn't enough?

I have a current mage and I've only found one sleek wand (and I've searched over 70-ish locations that I know about). I am able to find two limited wands for each spell though (2 aura, 2 shield, 2 barrier).

Sure those limited wands are a bitch to keep fresh and restocked, but that's the breaks of the game. I could PK other mages and take their wands if it was a real problem.

The problem isn't the hard spots. It's the easy spots that are the biggest problem in the system (because they are easy to a point that if you get any spot BUT those you feel like you got gyped).

I carry limited wands. My current is currently carrying about 6 or 7 limited wands. And I rarely use the shield ones. But I have an unrealistic amber, and no sienna, so in turn, you have me hoarding 6 limited wands, because its flat easier than going and getting my amber. I'm not crippled in the slightest by this. That just means other players that dont have their sleeks are sort of #### out of luck at my expense. Not my problem, but I can see how it creates a problem for other people that actually depend on them. But I'm not going to take any chances with my survival to let other people get their hands on them.


No I need my sienna? Nah. Not at all. But when a guy like me can't find a sleek, you have to wonder about the issues the other 75% of the playerbase is having with some of the spots. I was thinking more along the lines of helping the guys that already struggle. For me it's simple. If I cant get a competitive wand set, I delete, reroll, and start again until I do. Some people can get really, really turned off of the game by that, personally, I don't care that much.

Imms asked for people to input positive ideas. I thought it would be cool to try and help with an idea I had. But when I did, I got the whole "Zulg would probably throw the ABS switch thing" thrown at me. Which is disheartening, because all I was trying to do is come up with a positive idea to help the players that actually struggle. It's starting to sound more and more like the system is staying as is, like it or not. I doubt the staff even wants to make a change at this point, so we might as well drop it I guess. Sleeks have rarely if ever been an issue with me, but I love CF, and I'm always trying to throw out my ideas to improve it.

There could some requirements sets to get the second set of sleeks, some examples:

1. Character should be at least 150-200 hours old.
2. Character should be hero.
3. Character should have 15 000 observation and/or exploration exp.

Or imms could even use some sort of the 'filter' (the idea from mr. Putin) - character should have at least 2000-3000 imm exp to get the second set of sleeks. Though i personally am against imm's filter on the such important thing (and against the imm exp requirement on the chapmion of the men edge too).


Imms could set all of the requirements together, add even more, or chose some, and so on ...


We want to stop people from leveling up to level 30-35 and delete if they didn't find sleeks. However the original idea + requirements will reward long-lived characters who didn't find their sleeks. So some hard situations (like Cyradia - Twist) wouldn't ever happen again.

Only reason I shy from the Immexp one is tat when you play the quiet hours you often pass Imms by like ships in the night.

Perhaps 2 Amber locations, 1 sienna, and 1 black.

This would make most mages easier (they already give you shield for all the pure mage classes) and barrier is ment to be hard. Honestly, if I have my amber location I'm golden as a mage and having a blast for the most part. Maybe this is just me.