I want to express my gratitude for the years I've been able to blow off general life steam on this game. If it wasn't for you guys, the game wouldn't exist.

I rolled a centaur knowing full well it expires in July. I caballed said centaur with a class I haven't played, and am doing relatively well, all things considering. Am having fun. So don't listen to the grumbled fools and please bring more content. Know that people like me are out there. :)

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>I want to express my gratitude for the years I've been able
>to blow off general life steam on this game. If it wasn't for
>you guys, the game wouldn't exist.
>
>I rolled a centaur knowing full well it expires in July. I
>caballed said centaur with a class I haven't played, and am
>doing relatively well, all things considering. Am having fun.
>So don't listen to the grumbled fools and please bring more
>content. Know that people like me are out there. :)

Glad to hear you're having fun. Given the large number of things on my CF plate, it's good to hear that the seasonal races can be enjoyed the way they were intended.

The big barrier I see with the centaurs this time around is the significant number of race only gear slots. Given a whoel year of them being sprinkled in and people stumbling across them I see this as being a non issue the next time they come out.

I liked that the race was announced in advance this time and I hope the next one is as well but would it be possible to drop in the new racial gear/areas maybe a month in advance of the races release so people can get a leg up on "researching" the race town and finding some gear options?

The race limit for a couple of weeks does this already to an extent but a little more gear locating time wouldn't hurt.


It would also be interesting if at least one of the seasonal races could break a common align/class reinforcement. Like an evil druid or goodly necromancer or something like that.

Make me a halfling...


or else.

My yearning for one burns something fierce. I'll...do things.


PPS. I am not the OP.

The third race is started, but I confess the current climate has dampened my enthusiasm to continue. I can say, if it is completed, that it is not Halflings. If you need to drink heavily now, I will understand.

A vocal minority about stupid things like auto expiration and difficulty of playstyle I hope does not get you down on doing this for the PB. Do it if you enjoy it, cause you know for every whiner out there there are ten of us saying it's great that you do these things.

Personally, I am looking forward to the next race a lot because I think the timing is going to work for me to be able to actually play it, which means at least one seasonal race char is going to con die. And I'm going to do what I can to make sure the race has at least one guy consistently running around mixing it up with everybody RP-wise and maybe even PK-wise depending on what they are, I don't care if the race has no arms, is vuln_damage, tanks with its face and has a worse speech pattern than minotaurs.

And I'm glad it's not going to be halflings that I hopefully get a chance to play, but that's just me. :)

Certain members of the playerbase are impossible to please and get their rocks off via complaining. You could give these guys a million dollars and a ten-inch pecker and they'd bitch and moan that they would have preferred to have the money in gold bullion and "*Only* ten inches? What a gyp."

Personally I think you're doing a killer job with all these projects and would hate to see you lose steam over the gripes of a handful of people who will look every gift horse in the mouth...and then draft up a long letter of complaint about how if you're going to give them a gift horse in the future, could it please be a unicorn, but without that stipulation about virgins.

It's typically the same people bitching. Some of us have learned to tune them out.

You're doing good Scar. Don't worry about the naysayers. If they want to give constructive criticisms and thoughts that lead to productive conversations and REALLY think about it before posting, then I'm all for that. But as stated a few times, they don't know one or all of the following:

a) how to provide constructive criticism
b) how to phrase their constructive criticism
c) how to think rationally
d) how to think before they type things up
e) the english language (and no, this is not a stab at russians or foreigners, some people aren't proficient at stating their thoughts aptly).

Bottom line - yes, it can be disheartening, but the majority of us who play this game casually and who aren't as outspoken as the others extremely appreciate all you do for the mud.

I should comment here that I DO appreciate constructive feedback on race/class design issues. For example, if it appears that I have marked a room exit incorrectly as a ladder/rope exit and you think a centaur ought to be able to navigate that exit--that's something I need to hear. If an inherent ability seems to be buggy or seems over/underpowered, that's good information to pass on. Everything we implement gets some tweaking somewhere down the line, and players have an important role in contributing to that.

With regard to something like the seasonal race windows, I really have no interest in hearing someone harp about a perceived but unsubstantiated issue. Right now we have no empirical data that the window is actually problematic--we have 2 centaurs who have ranked over level 20, and we're nowhere near the end of the season--so as far as I'm concerned there is nothing to tweak.

But that's been said in variegated ways by several others already.

Only 2 over 20? That seems to point at something....

That being said the issue isnt with centaurs which btw are my dream race... its the forced deletion. Thats it.

Centaurs have a lot of draw backs so that could be why people arent playing them but it seems as if the most stringent and common complaint is the deletion.

Additional food for thought... People have said the same people complain well the same can be said of the people who support you from whole cloth.... they both have their perils.

Only 2 over 20? That seems to point at something....

It does. What it points to is what we disagree on.

I didnt pin forced expiration on that but it certainly an element in it.

As I stated Centaurs have a lot of drawbacks so arent likely to be played anyway. having little to no control of the end game is a detractor on top of that.

I just can't wrap my head arround the fact that you think there is any merrit to the system as it stands now. It's your world though.

I appreciate the reply.

He doesn't want them to be likely to be played. Only two centaurs over twenty is fine, because seasonal races are supposed to be very rare. So rare that Thera goes centuries without seeing them.

It's for the same reason that wood-elves have a large experience penalty despite being a not all that great race, stat wise. Because wood-elves are rare, rarer then humans or arials. It's part of how the admin creates the background for everyone's roleplay. I would think you'd support such a thing.

And honestly I see more people shy away from the class because of the racial gear slots + limited knowledge of how to fill them effectively then I see not rolling because they need to play the char into august.

For casual players like me, the time limit is a problem, but for the people who played the large majority of the characters in Zulgh's statistics, that is not a major issue. Races with limited slots like this start off slowly, with the appeal building with time when the information how to fill the gear slots becomes public and the gear is properly populated. It is possible that Scar and other team seasonal race Imms have already put in the sufficient amount of gear to fill in centaur slots. They should have if they've done it the smart way when considering the limited nature of centaurs. However, we don't really know this for sure yet, so it is an issue.

Expand your thought process to encompass that.

I already covered the difficulties of centaurs as have others.

Would you be happy if your favorite TV series was cancelled because the directors wanted to limit how many episodes there were so they would some how be more special?

Or what if your books vanished before you finished reading them?

I get that some of you may be worried about scaring away a cool Imm but seriously...On it's face it's clearly not needed.

>Would you be happy if your favorite TV series was cancelled
>because the directors wanted to limit how many episodes there
>were so they would some how be more special?

It's called a miniseries. Which is an unexpectedly interesting analogy.

If it helps you wrap your head around it, why don't you think of the RL days timer in the same category as the RL hours timer that already exists in the game. There is really not a massive difference between the two as the both present RL measurements for the expiration date of the character.

Seriously this is how your argument sounds.


WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I might only be able to play 700 hours of a char before autodelete hits... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaa


the fact of the matter remains that if you rolled up a centaur today you would delete long before the auto-delete timer. You have never played any char I am aware of to say that you specifically would have an issue with this restriction.

The imms, including scarab, have repeatedly said that the auto-delete is an intentional feature in place of having limited number of slots.

Personally I am a big fan of auto-delete (since honestly only 2% of players will have an issue with that and can be extended on an individual basis) over only having 12 slots in which 95% of the playerbase will never even get an opportunity to try the race.


So I like models that suck for 2% of people rather then suck for 95% of people.

I can pretty much 100% tell you that if you reach the auto-delete threshold and want to keep playing and have even a marginally decent char they will extend it because ultimatly scar is a big softy and wouldn't snuff out your 500 hour char.

But like his predictions I bet you that all centaurs are gone with more than 4 weeks left before auto-delete occurs

Because it's clear you do not understand anything that has been written by me or others.

Back up and try again.

For reasons I have already explained. I also offered an alternative that would be in line with what he thinks he is accomplishing.

No one is arguing about the window alone.

My argument was the window PLUS five unique slots is discouraging (as a casual player).

If centaurs are designed for experienced, highly active players, and my kind of player is MEANT to be discouraged, then you should probably say that so I can stop trying to get you to acknowledge it's an issue.

You shouldn't need empirical data to prove discouragement - all you need to do is to look at how few are being played, and to read testimonials.

Centaurs are totally unlimited by numbers. The Imms decided to go with the expiration date and limited introduction, but now that the first 2 weeks have passed, ANYONE can roll up a centaur.

Ironically enough, the ONE time I ever had a chance at a minotaur slot was when I was rolling up a centaur, and totally had a not-minotaur name to it :P

Actually never mind

Need I say more?

What do you mean by five unique slots?

that increases mid season...which is then trumped because you have roughly a month RL of character life to live.

that increases mid season...which is then trumped because you have roughly a month RL of character life to live.

What on earth are you talking about? Since the Announcements post is gone, here are the significant dates:

22 MAR: 06 slots open
29 MAR: 12 slots open
05 APR: unlimited slots open
22 MAY: no more rolling
22 JUL: end of season

I count 15½ weeks between 05 APR and the season closing 22 JUL. So I have no clue how you estimate "a month RL of character life".

I assumed 4 seasons 3 months each.

1 month limited
1 month unlimited
1 month play then poof!
New season.

You assumed wrong. So you've been fighting against a time line that exists only in your head.

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=3&topic_id=2591&mesg_id=2596&page=

Why did everyone assume I was talking about unlimited/limited PFile generation? I'm talking about gear slots. Centaurs have five unique gear slots. You had to add items to the game to allow them to fill those five slots.

Dur's post in the other thread: http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=45003&mesg_id=45034&page=

You replied. I then replied to you, with this post:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=6&topic_id=45003&mesg_id=45059&page=



Example, and a little rehash of that post: If I (Casual Player) want to play a centaur, I have to explore to fill five unique gear slots over the course of my character's lifetime. Of course, with every character I have to explore, but wouldn't I rather spend my limited time exploring on something that actually informs whatever I'm playing in two months? All the time I'm going to spend exploring for that centaur is meaningless in two months when they go away - and that's like, 30 hours of playtime, tops for me.

Further - I'm not exploring with a Centaur to give him some thing good (Like mages with ABS), I'm exploring to COVER HIS SLOTS. So what happens if I fail to find gear? Or -good- gear? Then I'm spending my highly limited amount of time playing a half-naked or undergeared centaur with a bunch of vulns.

I posit that - to make a centaur viable and still have time to interact, you have to play a lot, and you should be explore-savvy. New players, casual players, and players who don't explore much, are going to be at a disadvantage playing centaurs. This condition wouldn't apply if they were available to play longer.

First (for the sake of accuracy), Centaurs really only have 4 unique slots: waist (must be Centaur crafted), front and rear legs (must be equine), and back (must also be equine). Hoof wear has been in since Minotaurs went active, tail wear has been in since Felar became uniquely shaped.

Second, 3 of those 4 slots are common to horses and that equipment can currently be purchased in at least three cities without any exploration whatsoever. The equipment is also available in wilderness locations that would require someone to look around (and I'm not referring to the Centaur gear in Hell or in the Plane of Shadow). Which means the belt items are the only thing you'll actually have to locate a centaur to find. Outlanders will in fact have to search for equipment. I will try to make some available through more wilderness-oriented merchants as well, as time permits.

Third, I believe OUTFIT (level > 10) will provide you with that equipment if all else fails.

For this pass, it was slow getting centaur-specific gear into the game since I had very little assistance in creating gear for the race; that is a problem I would rectify for later releases, and which would not be a problem for future Centaurs. However, if you believe newbie characters cannot manage to find gear for their Centaurs in 2-4 months of playing time, I can see about taking seasonal races off the menu for newbies. The most I could do is add a blurb to the HELP file to warn off players such as yourself.

I guess that works. And the outfit thing is at least a good idea.

Still, I was hoping for a tweak that would include more players on this awesome thing, as opposed to a "this thing might not be for you" disclaimer, but what can you do.

Maybe you could add an extra question for character creation for newbies that choose centaur. Something akin to "Centaurs are a seasonal race and the character deletes automatically after 22rd of July. Are you OK with this? (yes/no)"

If they pick no, it's back to select race again. This way, this is guaranteed that the newbies know and aren't put off by the sudden autodeletion.

If the slots were normal, then extra slots would be more useful as you could use normal gear you know in them. The slots being unique, equine gear slots reduces the appeal of playing a centaur. How well have you populated the world with good centaur gear at all levels?

Giving centaur-suitable fine leather gear in academy might help in this, as people would have something to fill the slots with to begin with. I think it would reduce the deletion rate of centaurs at low levels a bit. They would at least have something to wear in those slots in low levels, which might reduce low level deletion rate of centaurs.

Centaur appeal:
+Rear. This is pretty cool inherent, at least at low levels.
+More item slots
-vuln boat
-vuln climb/crawl
-many item slots are equine specifics, which might destroys the benefit of more item slots if you don't find good gear to fill them.
-The stats don't look too hot
-Expiration date: not suitable for casual players

The expiration date will naturally put off casual players like myself, but the race should still be playable for active players who put in 10+ weekly hours. What remains is the appeal.

:) :) :)

Just kidding. I could only wish I was packing a tripod :(

Yes. I will drink heavily and my death will be on YOUR head Scarab. I'm talking halfling combined with dwarf heavily. Certainly not safe for human consumption.










Ok ok, I secretly await what is next. Centaur and Frost Giants are my style, but it is certainly stupid to bitch about it.

They're good projects. Everyone thinks so. Even the people who have issues with the details - they're only commenting because they -like- the idea and they want it to be "better" somehow.

"The current climate" shouldn't discourage you. Everything gets sent through the forum shredder, always. It doesn't mean anything at all. You've been around long enough that you should know it's nothing to cut your wrists over. You should be proud, really.

You're an experienced coder and player - you knew it was good enough to implement. That didn't change when players got ahold of it.