A couple things bother me about Tribunal powers, and I wanted to ask about them here. If not appropriate, please delete this post.

Question #1: Why is that when the Tribunals do not have their item, they only lose the ability to manacle? Every other cabal loses all or most of their cabal skills and powers when they do not have their item. And the way it is now, the Tribunal willnever have an incentive to retrieve their item unless they have huge numbers. They will not risk themsleves because, quite frankly, why bother if it will only get them back their manacles?

Question #2: Tribunals can summon and release guards over and over and over... no timer. That seems a bit too much. It seems like maybe they should at least have to wait an hour or something. As it is now there is no way to mess with a Tribunal's guards because they can just release them and get new ones with no penalty. Couple that with the fact that they can attack out of PK range and rescue, plus the fact that they do not lose them when they do not have their cabal item.. and it seems like a pretty brainless and overpowered skill to me.

Just curious about these things, to anyone who wishes to chime in their opinions. Though an immortal response would be more desirable. Thank you!

Zanya

>Question #1: Why is that when the Tribunals do not have their
>item, they only lose the ability to manacle?

Vindicators & Justiciars lose most all of their powers. Magistrates lose very little. Magistrates also have very little power and it is located in a very small space. This is why they don't lose them.

>Question #2: Tribunals can summon and release guards over and
>over and over... no timer. That seems a bit too much.

I disagree.

>It seems like maybe they should at least have to wait an hour or
>something. As it is now there is no way to mess with a
>Tribunal's guards because they can just release them and get
>new ones with no penalty.

Yes there is...you can kill the Tribunal, then they cannot call guards.

>Couple that with the fact that they
>can attack out of PK range and rescue, plus the fact that they
>do not lose them when they do not have their cabal item.. and
>it seems like a pretty brainless and overpowered skill to me.

You ALWAYS have the easiest way to defeat them. Leave the city. I'd hardly call that overpowered.

I did not know the higher-ranking types lost so much, so thank you for clarifying that for me. That certainly seems far more reasonable than what I was informed (misinformed).

However, saying that I can just leave the city to defeat them, while a true statement, is not really an answer. I was wondering why the tribunals guards worked that way, in accordance to game balance. I wasn't questioning why someone would choose to fight them in the city in the first place. Having charmies is always an enormous assett, especially ones who can rescue. I was wondering why you think it is alright that there is no timer on the skill, I suppose, since you already stated that you disagree that there should be one. Sorry to be a pain, just wanted to know.

Zanya

n/t

A few things.

First, if the Tribunal is not in your pk range, your suggestion to kill them is of course impossible. They can, and do call guards after guards after guards and you cannot stop them.

Second, perhaps I am mis-remembering, but can't a Tribunal call guards even as a ghost? Your solution to the tribunal calling new guards after new guards doesn't work if that is the case.

Third, saying the way to defeat them is to leave the city is specious. There are characters - and an entire cabal - devoted to fighting and erradicating these people. They don't really have the option of leaving or always avoiding the city and not interacting there. What's more, I have difficulty imagining you and the other game admins are trying to create a system where people avoid eachother rather than confront and interact. If the answer to someone's power is to leave and not deal with them, that seems counterproductive. To me.

Fourth, saying they have little power and that it is located in a little place doesn't necessarily lead to the result that they should keep those powers in the absence of their item. Ragers have big powers, but they also have big sacrifices for them. They lose their powers when the head is gone, or pay a price for using the one they maintain (truesight). And, to be honest, the powers they have are not small in my mind. A wanted flag is very powerful. Detect hidden, even if only in their city, is very powerful. It lets them see all hidden people in all thera. And the guards, of course. I guess we disagree on what it means to be powerful. But even so, if these powers come from the cabal item as I think we all believe they do, then shouldn't they lose them when the item is not theirs to call upon?

Just some thoughts.

most of your comments are based on out of date assumptions.

Tribs cannot do most of the things you think they can.

>First, if the Tribunal is not in your pk range, your
>suggestion to kill them is of course impossible. They can, and
>do call guards after guards after guards and you cannot stop
>them.

You can leave town.

>Second, perhaps I am mis-remembering, but can't a Tribunal
>call guards even as a ghost? Your solution to the tribunal
>calling new guards after new guards doesn't work if that is
>the case.

This was changed a while ago. Your information is no longer accurate.

>Third, saying the way to defeat them is to leave the city is
>specious. There are characters - and an entire cabal - devoted
>to fighting and erradicating these people. They don't really
>have the option of leaving or always avoiding the city and not
>interacting there.

Everyone has the option of leaving the city. Just because you want to fight and erradicate them doesn't mean you can't just walk out of town to avoid them and their powers.

>What's more, I have difficulty imagining
>you and the other game admins are trying to create a system
>where people avoid eachother rather than confront and
>interact.

I never said you wouldn't come back. I just said the easiest most simplest way to defeat them of their powers is to leave town.

>Fourth, saying they have little power and that it is located
>in a little place doesn't necessarily lead to the result that
>they should keep those powers in the absence of their item.

You make the mistake thinking that Magistrates powers come from their item. Their powers come from the city that they are magistrates of.

>And, to be
>honest, the powers they have are not small in my mind. A
>wanted flag is very powerful.

Wanted flags are watered down versions of what they once were with the new death penalties.

>Detect hidden, even if only in
>their city, is very powerful. It lets them see all hidden
>people in all thera.

Which is only useful while you are in town. What good does it do them to know that Thief X is hiding somewhere in the world. Very little. It is VERY useful to know that Thief X is hiding in their town.

>And the guards, of course.

Only useful if someone is wanted. To the other 95% of the mud, useless.

>I guess we
>disagree on what it means to be powerful.

Yup.

>But even so, if
>these powers come from the cabal item as I think we all
>believe they do, then shouldn't they lose them when the item
>is not theirs to call upon?

And that's where you are wrong. When the Magistrates were invented their powers come from the city they live in, not the Tribunal item. Vindicators & Justiciars powers come from the item. Magistrates are the law-enforcing power of their city regardless of whether or not they have their item.

I don't think Tribs can make others wanted when they don't have the Scales. That's a pretty large incentive to get them back.

They can always makes people wanted.