I'd like to invite you to participate in this brainstorming session. Here are the rules:

1) Pick a standard (that is, something you can normally play, not like lich paladin) character combination that is rarely played, either because it just isn't very good or because there's something similar that seems generally superior.

2) Come up with an Edge that would make this combination more playable, interesting, or unique without making it into a new power combo.

Cavefisher Form is a good example of this in my mind -- it's something interesting and perhaps advantageous you can only do if you're a dark-elf shifter, a combination which otherwise isn't relatively strong. But, neither are all shifters or even most evil shifters in a post-Cavefisher-Form world dark-elf.

3) Limit yourself to one combo and Edge per post.

4) By submitting an idea, you agree to not take it personally or overreact if I tell you I don't like your idea or explain why I don't think your idea is a good one. This is to help you understand where my head is at and help you come up with a better idea if you care to.

5) I will consider putting the ideas I like into the game.

delf mages

having perfected the casting of faerie fire, a dark-elf is able to inherently and without thought engulf an enemy in faerie fire upon being attacked from out of the shadows (if an opponent initiates combat from hide/camo/chameleon)

cloud healer

proud divine, a cloud healer empowered by a god loses some of its fear of the divine (takes normal damage from holy/negative damage)

svirf ranger

stonelike, when effected by stone skin, a svirf ranger in a cavern is more evasive as its appearance blends into the rocky terrain in between combat rounds, causing its foe to lose focus

arial ranger

flying bearcharge, a bearcharge used to initiate combat (not during) will cause extra damage as the arial takes flight and propels oneself into combat by a powerful thrust of its wings

duergar poisoner

close proximity, gives grenade a higher chance of landing effects because a duergar will get in close proximity with opponent due to less fear from natural resistance to poison. may take small damage from the grenade but nothing else

elf/darkelf thug

for elf, swiftstrike on a failed weaponbuttblackjack
for delf, knife on a failed weaponbuttblackjack if indoor and night or dark

Arial Shapeshifter
Edge that allows wingsweep when in form as avian
Also, edge could allow other wingsweep edges to carry over (like the magic dam one)

Now that's interesting.

Totally Sloshed

As a proud dwarvish cleric - you only preach between gulps of ale. (watered down version of bard drinking benefits - with the downside that being sober yields worse results than usual.)

I REALLY like this idea for a healer dwarf.

Axes High

Some dwarf healers have learnt from their more martial kin the technique of wielding axes. Dwarf healers with this edge are able to wield axe as an exotic.

Best of both worlds

Some of the half-elves and half-drows have partial autonomy of both heritages. Half-elves and half-drow with this edge are able to fit into ONE human-only and ONE elf/drow-only equipment.

To possibly slip a gag in on a successful garrote.

Or even make garrote lag where you have time to put a gag in before they call for help.

It's really really hard to ever land bindings on someone when they have cabal help, and it's not really all that fair considering if you went all the way to Truss to Truss people. It's already hard enough to get it on them.

That's kind of a feature.

It might be the only thing you can do to save your life, depending on who you are and the circumstances.

binders right now are sort of frozen into a tiny niche. I think you said it yourself on one of Isildur's binder pbfs: against lone enemies, its almost unfair how dangerous he is, and against people with groups and allies, he's just terrible.

I guess we might be looking for a binder edge(or series of edges) that makes them more useful against groups and less useful against lone enemies?

They can really ruin your life solo, or even if you can't type for help before the gag lands. Lots of classes/combos are deadlier in one area than they are in others...just seems like this should be left alone.

Binders, imho, are scary.

I would leave CF and never return.

Another twist on the terratorial edge.

When placing items in the Orc village alter and orc could "Scent" or "Mark" the item in some way so he could identify it as his/her own.

If marked it would prevent much lower level orcs from taking the item out of fear of retribution from the much bigger orc. Higher level orc wouldnt give a toss either way as lets face it they are the top of the orc food chain.

This marking could have an associated timer so eventually it would fade, other races obviously wouldnt give a toss either way because there would be some level of hostility to get into the village anyway.

Okay. Half-Elf Druid/Half-Drow Druid.


Giving access to the herbal focus edge that humans get would be enough for me. I like the race combo already, though.

Reasoning: Half human and humans get it.

OR a different approach would be to make the moonblessed edge cheaper. This would make it so a half-elf could get moonblessed + a cheap something else.

Reasoning: The half-bloods understand the moon better because it spends more of its time in a mixed state than in a full or new state. Or because the moon just likes them more.

As someone with no ideas I can hardly talk, but it looks to me like a lot of people are suggesting things which basically partially or completely neutralize the drawbacks of a race. While that might make it more appealing for the combo, I think it's less interesting and probably less likely to be implemented than ideas that keep the disadvantages intact, while adding a unique advantage.

Knife in the Dark

Against an opponent who can't see, a dark-elf with a dagger is a nasty opponent.

(gets a random extra attack once in awhile against blinded opponents/oppenents in dark rooms without infravision.)

(Prereqs - dagger 100%, h2h 100%?)

That's interesting, but d-elf warrior isn't really an unplayed combo, is it?

nt

Way harder than human, felar, or arial assassin, in my opinion.

But the real melee class that needs a boost for dark elves, in my opinion, would be thieves.

And maybe a bit on dark elf rangers, too. I can't think of anything a dark elf ranger could do that other ranger builds couldn't do a dozen times better.

Does anyone think the proposed edge would be OP on anything other than assassin? Or does it seem balanced attached to any other melee class?

I don't honestly know without taking another look at Dur's list - I just couldn't decide why a warrior -wouldn't- be able to take this edge. The target of interest was Assassin.

I'm kind of approaching this as more like a "Daevryn needs sexy lumps of clay to mold" exercise than a "propose something practical and balanced right out of the box" exercise. With future posts - would you prefer the latter?

Edited to add: I double-checked da list, and Dark-elf is in the bottom quarter of warrior popularity, so maybe that counts. Not to make a case for it - but to save you the click.

Avoids Big Heavy Things

This martial gnome has gotten especially good at avoiding blunt attacks.

Prereq - defenses?

Prayer upon the Winds

I dunno how it'd be coding wise, but it'd be cool if there was like a 30 hour cool down or something that gives a call lightning affect to any commune of their choice.

Make it only have a 2 room range so it's contained to mainly being useful for sometimes shooting off one commune to fleeing victims. I imagine it'd be pretty expensive.

If it takes me more than a few minutes to code, it's too complicated for an edge.

Due to their attunement to the sky, arial lightning called by arials does more damage.

Give them an edge that gives them a bonus to deflection, or a minor dmg redux, when using a lot of light or bone armor.

With option of Teth-Azeleth as a hometown.

That alone would make me play one.

A pit in a cursed area? I'd be tempted to sit there with an entwiner and a macro for hours on end.

I find it hard to believe something like this would be implemented without removing the travel restrictions from the pit room.

An edge that can be taken up to two times would allow a Drow assassin to have up to three characters marked.

Smarter than any other in the assassins' guild, Drow have developed the ability to keep track of multiple marked victims.

Obviously some non-clunky syntax to locate mark would need to be worked out.

That one's a small implementation nightmare, unfortunately.

gnome warriors with the edge wisdoms grace can use their wisdom to enhance their dexterity.

Pretty much anything that checks dexterity can have a chance to use the average of wis/dex instead of just dex if it is better. Giving gnome warriors essentially 23 dex some of the time will make them not a total waste of time to play without making them scary good due to their size/str/vuln restrictions though.

Striking the shadows footfall/dance on the southern wind would make them very strong. My best pker was a gnome warrior. At Hero I remember dropping people like they were nothing. All I can think about is a gnome with 1.2k hp getting concealed strikes like a drow and stopping you from fleeing with striking. Given the right hands anything can be scary good.

that was nuekar and striking has been changed since then so it is doubtful that anyone will be able to reproduce that.

Basically getting a gnome to 22 dex some of the time is still not enough to make them highly effective with anything that is strongly dex dependant. Their str is still horrid and their size is a penalty in a significant portion of their skillset (not to mention it is to the advantage of several of their opponents skill sets).

as it currently stands the only way I would do a gnome warrior would be with hours past midnight and hand-to-hand because those are your only options that you are not super gimped right out the gate (and even hand cares about size for crushingblow and possibly stun) having 1200 hp doesn't mean anything when you fight like a wet noodle.

Now that said I have seen some rather talented melee players make a gnome look average since nuekar but nothing that even approached a concern unless they were just another faceless member of a giant ganksquad.

>that was nuekar and striking has been changed since then so
>it is doubtful that anyone will be able to reproduce that.

But wisdom actually means more to striking now than it did then.

Not that I'm suggesting anyone play gnome striking warrior.

Amongst others you tend to give out more than once.
=(

There goes my race/warrior spec spec =)

(Got lost in the purge.) But I'm guessing she was around 80-90ish kills and not that many deaths. Dagger/whip/HPM/?? I think.

provost guards are more dangerous than a gnome warrior.

at the time of Nuekar learns did not fade overtime and wisdom accounted for nothing. So while today wisdom counts for more then it did not long after neukar striking was just better then (same cap but learns were accumulated faster in general and didn't fade till you quit)

You are incorrect.

Are you saying Nuekar today would be the same character?

Or that Kostyan would be? Striking seems like the single legacy that got nerfed the most in the last few years and people still take it. Am I crazy or hasn't Striking gotten changed a ton since it went in?

>Are you saying Nuekar today would be the same character?

Since I assert that Wisdom is a more useful stat for Striking than it used to be, clearly I'm not saying that. :)

Thats an interesting statement. Almost makes me want to try it out. Almost :)

I have and I was a complete noob back then and got my second highest K/D ratio I believe.

An edge that let's them sneak in the wilds and have quiet move in civilized.

An edge that gives them full acute vision and, if already a ranger or druid, able to see thieves and asassins in plains.

An edge that works like swiftstrike but only with the riposte skill.

Is there any reason that they shouldn't get full-on acute vision from the get go?

Duergar get detect hidden without drawbacks.

Svirfs get detect invisible without drawbacks.

With option of taking another edge instead.

I'll think on this.

Eh, I think it balances pretty well as-is for most wood-elves.

That being said, what wood-elves have isn't exactly acute vision and in *some* ways, what they have is superior (even if you'd rather have AV probably 99 times out of 100).

PAIN BUILDS CHARACTER

Imbued with unholy, demonic glee, halfblooded anti-paladins can learn to not only ignore but embrace the pain the cursed metal brings to them, gaining the ability to wear and wield such items. Should their blood not be too thinned, this act of masochism will even empower them slightly.

So, technically: halfies can wear/wield items they couldn't normally, though they take minor damage when putting them on. If they don't have the thinned bloodline edge, each object also counts as if it had an extra +1 morale.

Thickened bloodline

Half-elves and half-drow with this edge favor their elven/drow heritage and take slightly more damage from iron and mithril, respectively.

They have a chance of auto-sneak.

Mutually exclusive with Thinned bloodline.

Give them an edge that allows them the option of using their angel/demon summoning slot for a second elemental, when they so choose.

Biggest drawback is the getting bashed down aspect.

Demon's or Devil's tail edge

A Felar AP can enhance his balance with this edge making it difficult for him to fall on his face when he misses a bash as well as suffering less from attempts to unbalance him with bash, trip, throw and bear charge.

Here's the combo popularity listing from a couple of months ago on what characters have been played over graveyard's span to help brainstorming:

Arial Warrior 601
Storm warrior 549
Fire warrior 529
Felar warrior 476
Human warrior 442
Dwarf Warrior 426
Cloud warrior 394
Duergar warrior 387
Svirf warrior 335
Elf warrior 249
Minotaur warrior 167
Dark-elf warrior 141
Half-Drow warrior 88
Gnome warrior 69
Half-elf warrior 41
Wood-elf warrior 39

Human thief 325
Arial thief 192
Svirf thief 104
Duergar thief 88
Felar thief 63
Half-drow thief 46
Dark-elf thief 37
Elf thief 32
Half-elf thief 21
Gnome thief 17

Duergar shaman 87
Human shaman 55
Storm giant 48
Dwarf shaman 39
Fire shaman 38
Half-drow shaman 30
Minotaur shaman 23
Arial shaman 22
Dark-elf shaman 19
Half-elf shaman 12

Elf healer 82
Human healer 77
Dark-elf 59
Gnome healer 44
Half-drow healer 39
Half-elf healer 31
Storm healer 24
Dwarf healer 21
Wood-elf healer 13
Svirf healer 10
Cloud healer 10
Arial healer 6

Wood-elf druid 66
Human druid 34
Gnome druid 27
Cloud druid 26
Half-drow druid 9
Half-elf druid 6
Arial druid 3

Human transmuter 325
Dark-elf transmuter 216
Elf transmuter 168
Gnome transmuter 142
Half-elf transmuter 71
Half-drow transmuter 63
Arial transmuter 35
Svirf transmuter 31

Human necromancer 239
Half-drow necromancer 56
Arial Necromancer 29
Dark-elf necromancer 21
Lich necromancer 10
Mummy necromancer 8
Half-elf necromancer 6

Arial invoker 149
Gnome invoker 120
Elf invoker 107
Human invoker 82
Half-drow invoker 78
Half-elf invoker 68
Dark-elf invoker 57
Svirf invoker 44

Felar ranger 437
Human ranger 265
Cloud ranger 173
Wood-elf ranger 166
Arial ranger 69
Elf ranger 65
Svirf ranger 58
Storm ranger 45
Fire ranger 43
Half-drow ranger 40
Half-elf ranger 30
Dark-elf ranger 23
Gnome ranger 10

Human bard 415
Elf bard 133
Wood-elf bard 131
Arial bard 80
Half-drow bard 69
Half-elf bard 48

Arial assassin 457
Human assassin 420
Felar assassin 336
Dark-elf assassin 132
Half-drow assassin 75
Half-elf assassin 38

Fire anti-paladin 233
Duergar anti-paladin 157
Human AP 123
Arial Anti-Paladin 77
Dark-elf anti-paladin 51
Felar anti-paladin 29
Half-drow anti-paladin 10
Half-elf anti-paladin 3

Storm paladin 166
Elf paladin 133
Human Paladin 106
Dwarf paladin 94
Half-elf Paladin 17
Half-drow paladin 7

Human conjurer 534
Elf conjurer 94
Half-elf conjurer 50
Half-drow conjurer 49
Gnome conjurer 27
Arial conjurer 22
Dark-elf conjurer 21
Svirf conjurer 12

Orc berserker 367

Human shapeshifter 802
Gnome shapeshifter 657
Half-drow shapeshifter 113
Half-elf shapeshifter 110
Felar shapeshifter 88
Elf shapeshifter 86
Svirf shapeshifter 52
Dark-elf shapeshifter 36
Arial shapeshifter 23

- A pair of opposite choices for half-elves/drow. Moderate-high edge cost for both:

ELVEN ANATOMY

Some half-elves' and half-drow's anatomy is so close to the race of their elven parent that they can wear and use items that have been designed for elves only. This edge is mutually exclusive with HUMAN ANATOMY.

See also: EDGES


HUMAN ANATOMY

Some half-elves' and half-drow's anatomy is so close to the race of their human parent that they can wear and use items that have been designed for humans only. This edge is mutually exclusive with ELVEN ANATOMY.

See also: EDGES


(Additionally, ELVEN ANATOMY should perhaps be incompatible with THINNED BLOODLINES, as well)

I think a huge boon could be made for all of the misfit characters if they could just mitigate or eliminate certain racial vulns entirely after some point. Even if it was just a short-term affect like an inherent timer.

Let's face it, things like clouds, duergar, and d-elf are hilariously easy to exploit vulns on if you aren't a class with access to damage protection. And taking unspeaks from an invoker, bard, paladin or rager every other round of combat when they exploit your vuln really dampers your excitement for a character.

Favor the Beast

Felar anti-paladins who have gained the attention of the fiends by wreaking sufficient havoc against the innocent may gain their favor, allowing them to gain a bonus to spellcasting in proportion to their success as villains.


The idea here is that felar could be on a hidden, tiered system where once they reach a certain PK number, their spellcasting ability improves by a degree. This is to offset the glaring weakness of their spellcasting ability as compared to, say, dark-elves.


I'm not sure whether losing this bonus when losing their weapon would be a good idea...as that just makes the "hit" that much worse, and it's already pretty bad.

Tiny Hands: A slight bonus to pickpocket/counterfeit/plant.

Certainly wouldn't turn them into a power combo, but might make them a more popular choice for a "STEAL ALL THE THINGS" city ties thief.

When target is blinded, dodge and evade increased based on dexterity and intelligence.

Woodies, High elves, Halfies, and even Drow/Half-D.

Through their constant handling of all sorts of weapons and armor, ie Steel which has Iron in it. They are able to develop a small resistance or less of a vulnerability to their opposing metallic items.

This would only come from being very Intelligent and knowing where and how to touch such blades or what may cause the most damage in combat.

This would be similar to Keys to where they may be able to touch said weapons, sacrifice them, and get hit a little less hard by them but never wield them. Could have a stronger affect on Halfies as they have less blood from their counterpart Elf.

give storm rangers a boost to the call lightning spell with an edge...

lets face it, since they are mariner only, alot of their skill set gets nerfed out the water.

can you remember any deadly storm rangers? ;)


EDITED***

I dont think it would be too overpowered on the combo... given the timer on the inherent, the timer with the whole "lightning does not strike twice" and the fact that it is not always raining in thera... (rangers cant get bolt from the blue, can they?)

Help Stormborn?

help really is overpowered.

name: strength in wisdom? strength of the wise?

Hit/Dam are based on wisdom not Str

name: tendon slasher?

double damage of hamstring and hurl leg

or

double damage of hamstring and -more movement than normal (30 more per step maybe)

name: Anger of the Gnomes

Imm reward or very expensive edge

+damage to creatures larger than you.

1) the bigger the difference the more damage
or
2) a flat +damage bonus if +1 size or >

Yes, I'd love to see more Gnomes warriors. My first char. ever was a Gnomes warrior (sword)

name: Intelligent Combat (parry/dodge)

very expensive edge / can only choose one

Parry checks vs INT not STR
or
Dodge checks vs INT not DEX

This would give a Gnome warrior at least 1 good warrior stat. A gnomes STR and DEX are just horrible for warrior play.

The Hp you get from it and the fact that striking is in my opinion the best legacy ever for gnomes. People would be surprised with the insane things you can pull off with a gnome.

Two out of three playable underdark races resist poison, but they're also shown using poison quite a bit. Dark-elves with spidery stuff or snake whips, for example. I think it's reasonable that the poison using races down there would work out some way to cut through resistance. So, this edge would let a poisoner make a poison that reduces immunity to resistance, or resistance to nothing, with no change for everyone else, but only if they actually concoct the poison in the underdark. Say they're mixing in rare mushrooms that only grow wild down there, or something.

It might make sense to make this a little more widely available. Maybe any poisoner could have access to it for a higher cost after passing some ammount of exploration experience?

Standard Character Combos that should be played more: Humans and Halfies.

It seems as though, in most cases, for each class I can generally think of a race that looks like a better choice in terms of stats than Human, especially at Hero when the PK range evens out. What about more mechanical variety to add to the customization and flavor of playing these races that should be common in Thera?

I would simply propose starting humans/halfies out with a few extra edge points (enough to meet the prereqs for a common low-level edge), or 10% cheaper edge costs, or something similar. It would be a low-level boost - and wouldn't fix anything at hero - but a neat incentive to play these races and a good way to get new players into edges (one of our coolest features) more quickly.

I'm thinking about the first level bonus feat most tabletops give humans.

I always thought the "background edges" humans and halfies can take would make sense given to them at creation. Not saying I really think those races need the extra perk though.

Halfies, however, are unpopular in almost every combo.

This just makes them unique, not much else I don't think.


Cursed Winds:

An arial Shaman with this edge has a chance to curse those hit by his windsweep.


Requires 100% wingsweep, 100% curse.


It could be a weaker curse, maybe shorter lasting - or maybe just a flat out standard one.

I don't really see this as crazy or anything, given nobody plays Arial Shamans - And given that you can't wingsweep over and over, and curse already doesn't land tons.

NT

Arial shaman is just horrible, all that dex for nothing.

Why not make it so blinded people can be dodged depending on your dex? Would stop melee classes picking apart their low health. And make it so the edge is counter-able.

Planar Wisdom

Could be a few things, but just something niche - Maybe, as long as their wisdom remains at 25, they have a chance (occasionally) to detect when a pet is about to rebel against them - "You wisely notice a devil/archon/angel/demon acting peculiar" (SEE IT SAYS WISELY BECAUSE IT'S WISDOM, SUBTLE RIGHT?)


Or perhaps a chance, occasionally when summoning/binding, to allow the servitor's happiness to pull from the gnome's wisdom instead of charisma. The pet will obviously still hate the gnome for being neutral, so that happiness should decay rather quickly, but it gives a CHANCE for the gnome to pull out a devil/demon/angel/archon that lasts for a bit longer before having a hissyfit.


Maybe echoes like (as you summon or bind it) "Through your experience and mastery of <thespell>, you feel your ties to the <elemental planes/abyss/hell/whatever> strengthened".


I just don't ever see gnome conjies.

And when I do, they give up so quickly.







Not that there aren't enough gnomes.




Jesus I take it all back we don't need more gnomes.

They have Indifference Affinity already, though.

Indifference affinity only applies to elementals. Maybe this could be a bonus to archons/devils/angels/ademons. So while indifference helps, s
till don't see ANY conjie gnomes (make it gnome only, not svirf).

being able to better manage elementals.... an evil with 10 charisma doesn't have much of a problem wrangling elementals. If the edge applied to aligned servitors it could possibly be useful then.

2 edges

1) Given the arials affinity for high altitude, they have learned to harvest herbs with greater effectiveness in mountain settings - more likely to cure poisons/plague, slight boost to hp.

2) Very expensive edge: Arial rangers with the entangle spell have the ability to sometimes cause flying creatures to be earthbound for a short time.

Using their wings, Arial rangers soar up to the sky, which allows them to perform a diving ambush outdoors.

Gnomish Tactician

Using their keen intellect and superior powers of observation, martial gnomes with a broad background in physical combat are able to thwart the forms of their foes with particular ease. Gnomes with this edge apply (int+wis/2) to evasion, rather than dex.

Natural weapon specialization.

Wood-elven warriors can best utilize the subtle strengths of weapons constructed of natural materials. While wielding weapons they are specialized in (Swords, maces, etc) that are constructed of a natural material (Bone, stone, wood, etc) they gain a slight increase to their combat abilities (Hit? Dam? Ability to land/block blows or execute weapon spec skills? You decide).

Why only warriors?
-This ability requires a highly nuanced understanding of a weapon type, and is an extension of standard weapon specialization.

What about hand-spec warriors?
-Either this edge doesnt apply to them, or it uses the wild-elf's hand slot to determine whether it works or not.

Bells and whistles:
-Maybe stone weapons give +Dam, while wooden weapons give +Hit, allowing wood elves to customize a little? You decide.

Shadows of the Sun - The high elves of Darsylon have spent their entire lives reveling in the sun. They understand all of its subtle shades and dapples, its subtle interplays and most of all, its shadows. The elven masters of stealth have perfected their movements under all forms of sunlight, so that even others well-practiced against stealth see nothing but tricks of the light. This does not work on magical forms of stealth.

If elf is outdoors, it is daytime, and the elf in question is hidden/camouflaged, people who can detect hidden/camo have a chance of not seeing the elf on where. They will always see the elf if they walk into the same room. Does not work for invis.

Shadows of the Darkness - I know of two ways to guarantee a dagger in your back. Put it there yourself, or try to find a dark-elf through the shadows at night.

Same, except for dark-elves at night.

Adept of the Wilds:
While in any wilderness terrain, wood elf healers can imbue additional natural protections into the sanctuaries they surround themselves in to provide them extra protection against any metal based weaponry. (thinking like a druid's protection from metals- or maybe just Iron if it's too strong otherwise.)

- Would only apply to their own sanctuary, not one's given to others. Might pass through a bond though for nexus.

Is wood-elf really a disadvantaged choice for someone who wants to play a neutral healer? I think it would make my short list now.

I see cloud being good because giant resist, and they can cover negative & mental to a degree.

I can't think of any major disadvantage except an iron vuln to a wood elf, which I still think is not a big deal on a healer. Maybe just cloud giant is that good, I don't know, I don't play healers really, I just rarely see them being wood elves. I can't actually name one I've ever seen.

I see more svirf/cloud giants as netural healers than anything else, hard pressed to say why that is though. Maybe people just don't like playing wood elves outside of rangers/druids/bards. :)

I don't think wood-elves are disadvantaged if you want to play a neutral healer. But very few people seem to want to play neutral healers.

Quick battlefield search came up with the following numbers

# of healers
Wood-Elf 14
Cloud 10
Gnome 27
Svirfnebli 11


Elf 198
Dark-Elf 63

So essentially, all the neutral only races have had less total healers then dark-elf healers combined and less then 1/3 as many as elf healers. My guess is that people just prefer good/evil healers in general.

I like the edge idea myself though I doubt I'd ever play a wood-elf healer.

Ability to forge any type of weapon. Faster hp/mana regen at a forge.

Tainted Blood - Chance to resist any poison/plague/crimson affect due to your mixed blood and the demonic teachings of the AP guild. Because your blood is mixed with two different races it is harder to land a spell/ability that affects the blood. Moderately Expensive edge.

Nature's Son - Wood-elf warriors get bonuses to regeneration of health/mana/movement in forest's. Moderately expensive edge.

Hah that was almost my second wood-elf warrior idea.

I was thinking maybe that would be a general wood-elf edge and just hp/move but not mana, because then you'd have an edge you could let wood-elf ranger/druid/bard take but that probably wouldn't really be worth it for them but might for warrior.

I was thinking it could just be like a flat 10% if room = forest wilderness or something like that.

Nothing overpowered, but a nice little edge that reminds wood-elves to spend more time in the forest.

(Cavaet: I would choose this as a bard though, everytime. Not as a ranger or druid though).

AirBlessed (or SkyBlessed or whatever) - Arial Druids with this edge gain a significant bonus to shapeshifting into condor form. Less herbs burned, more potent damage/defense abilities. Moderately expensive edge.

I like the idea of burning herbs slower.. They're already
Atleast one non air major flying form that the condor
can beat pretty good..

Maybe a little added defense.. But condor should not
be able to compete with air spec forms..

Arcane thieves have learned to incorporate minor magic/cantrips into their stealth abilities.

Number of possible affects depending on balancing issues.

1. Improved hide? Similar to improved invis, but with hide.

2. Invis affect when hiding. Short duration? Small mana cost?

3. THIEF STYLE DUO DIMENSION

I cant think of a great edge name but whatever, in essence it would give Gnome warriors a bonus when fighting in enclosed spaces, I was thinking shops, indoor rooms etc. The premise would be that because they are so small, they can more readily use things like tables/chairs/objects in the room to avoid attacks. I'm not sure how this would work in essence with the evade/armor use etc.

Why is this something gnome warriors can do but svirf warriors can't?

With their superior wisdom they learned the places that larger people would place their feet/step, and or swing. Kinda like lowest level of striking. Not sure if it would be better for dodge or evade but I like the idea.

nt

nt

I think the logic for this edge works equally well or better for them. Not a fan of it.

I think the logic for this edge works equally well or better for them. Not a fan of it.

Edit: knowing Alston he wont get the point of what Im saying. Svirfs living underground has nothing to do with gnomes having a high wisdom. The reason it wouldnt work as well or better is because the svirfs have a lower wisdom and intelligence. They wouldnt be cunning or clever enough to do it. Hence the fire giant reference.

A lifetime of living in a physically restrictive environment means it comes naturally.

The original subthread stated size. The a follow up made the prime req was wisdom wich Svirfs have plenty.

So again. Shove it.

25 vs 22 is a HUGE difference. It is also 23 int vs 18. Which is also a big difference and you know there are rules about attacking the player I added that edit so you wouldnt get insulted. Your the only acting ignorant. I honestly cant believe that the svirfs would make their home cramped. They are small and make tunnels GIANTS can walk through so your logic is flawed. And no Svirfs dont have plenty thats why you dont see many striking svirfs. nuff said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssC77hapv0g

nt

asdcqa

Use any logic to prove their view points. I will agree to disagree with you on this but I do not agree about breaking forums rules.

Tend to have thiers locked tight.

This sub thread is primarily about gnomes. The original poster was making a case for an edge that ties wisdom being used in confined area.

Daevryn asked why Svirfs wouldn't have this, which I think is a legit question. Because I think they would qualify as well.

The reason I think so is because Svirfs are wise, presumably most of them live or start their life in subterranean realms and thus would have exposure to running around the stalagmites (Tites? I can never remember) and mushrooms, and what-have-yous. As far as I know there is nothing to suggest that Svirfneblin road crews went out and leveled out the underdark thus removing said obstacles’.

What's more, Svirfneblin also get access to an edge that allows them to dodge better underground. For me, this represents them springing of walls, dipping behind stone abatements etc, which is basically the idea behind the aforementioned Gnome Wisdom edge.

In short, there's nothing to suggest that svirfs shouldn't have this just the same as a Gnome.

And one final thing. If they did have it, I would think that it would work best for a gnome, but with the other juice svirfs get, it still wouldn't set gnomes apart from them in a niche environment.

The difference between 22 and 25 wisdom is a lot. It is the same difference between 22 dex and 25 dex. You do have a point but if we are basing it mostly off wisdom the difference seems to be too much to even count as useful to a svirf. The only way I could see it working for a svirf is if it was a cavern dweller svirf. I have a hard time thinking you have an open mind when you cannot grasp a good portion of CF concepts such as alignment and Cabals dynamics. My agruement is based solely from the aspect of Wisdom and intellegence.

I also believe adding the edge anyways would help make gnomes into a power combo anyways. People undereastimate how good a gnome is if someone plays it well. Autumn harvest and Striking are really good together.

Honestly I truly dont mind you but your logic frustates me to no end.

I see your point and honestly at this point I concede.

You seem to think because I don't like something I don't understand it. Has it occured to you I don't like something because I >>DO<< understand it?

I don't think the difference between a 22 and 25 wis synergizes the same way dexterity does.

Simply put. I agree with Daevryn's question. Why couldn't a Svirfneblin have the same? For me the answer is the easy; They could.

I guess my only justification would be, since svirfs can inherent stoneskin making them less nimble or something (which it doesn't actually do) in an in game sense it could be because gnomes have above ground cities and have interacted more with the rest of the Theran populace. If I come up with a legitimate reason I'll let you know.

They are also weaker, which has led to gnomes developing this kind of smart fighting style where they take advantage of their small size and quick thinking to improvise in crowded spaces, making them harder to hit.

nt

So this edge makes a lot of sense because they are both wise yada yada.

Edge: Napolean Complex

Grants the gnome 25 str, 25 dex, and 25 con. Also gives them all the positive affects of bloodthirst with none of the negatives and double the deathblow.

You make me sad.

I couldn't help it. I had some great ideas along this vein recently, but can't remember any of them. So, nonsensical fun is the default position.

You should be happy someone is out there trying to make people smile Mr. Sour Pants.

Bird of Prey - Arial shapeshifters, being far more experienced than any other race the skies, have greater combat prowess when using air focus forms.

Define better combat prowess.

How do you balance this so arial air shifter becomes worth choosing without becoming the de-facto choice?

Maybe Arials get a movement bonus?, something that would reduce the cost of flyto by 10% or something. I know there is already a greater enliven that sorta handles regen.

Could do something to enhance their wings so that moving in the air doesn't cost as much or is slightly quicker even without being air major. This is more troublesome with lower lvl air forms.

Or lesson the drain on the mana needed to hold their air form due to the minimal change in their wings.

Since arials can fly in their natural form, they do not plummet to their death when reverting/running out of moves in the sky, but glide safely to the ground using their wings. We could call it some kind of bird's instinct that guides them safely to ground even when tired. The reasoning could be that as birds, arials know when they are exhausted and automatically land upon running out of moves and as unshifted, land safely using their own wings.

Nt

On Waxen Wings- Being more used to flight than any other humanoid race on Thera, Arial shapeshifters with a focus in Air are able to fight more effectively* while in their air form, and while magically flying outdoors. However, due to their reliance on flight, should they become earthbound, or otherwise unable to fly, their combat prowess is weakened**.

* I want to say higher dam/hitroll, so as not to unbalance some offense forms (alligator comes to mind) by giving them an extra attack, which was my first thought. Also better dodge, and maybe minor evasion outdoors?

**Severely weakened dodge and maybe damroll if they get earthbound, or flight is dispelled


My thought process with this is to have an edge that can give you a big advantage against certain people, but weaken you against others. This would, for instance, be pretty great vs people who cant dispel, but pretty bad vs those who do.

edit: Also maybe make flight much harder to dispel.

I think overall wood-elves could still use some love, but warriors seem among the least played.

Woodland Warrior - Wood elves being supremely comfortable fighting in wilderness areas are able to use the terrain to evade attacks much more effectively.

This is interesting because wood-elf warrior was the first thing I thought of, and an edge that made them evade better in the wilderness is the first solution I thought of there.

Here's where I ran into a potential sticking point:

Probably, an Outlander wood-elf warrior gets to fight in the wilderness more than other options. If this evade bonus occurs at a rate which is fair for an Outlander warrior defending his cabal, would it be too weak to merit going for with a Battle/Nexus/Herald wood-elf warrior?

Second sticking point: Justify why only a warrior can have this edge.

Bard/druid/healer don't focus enough on combat to learn the techniques. There are other edges that do this aren't there? "Those with sufficient martial training" type thing.

Rangers have wilderness fam which trumps it, so they don't need it/want it.

Hence, warrior-only.

Outlander will obviously get more use out of it, but no reason Battle and Nexus won't. Battle has wilderness right near their cabal and Nexus fights all over the place theoretically.

Heralds? Who cares? ;). They can use it in exploring.

ascdsacd

The point was that the techniques a warrior would learn are superceded by the wilderness fam. IE: A wilderness fam-lite.

His post sums up my answers too. Especially now that battle entrance is wilderness has much more use for both Battle and Nexuns.