You are a hero mage, powerfull and feared. There is no one to defend the spire outer. You run to take back your item. Suddenly while fighting the outer a level 15 trib come along. He manacle you and continues to let his puny guards beat you down slowly. While you are pretty much disabled.

How is this power balanced compared. Ok, it is very limited, I understand that. But for priests it is pretty much not a bother at all. Warriors might suffer a bit from the -dex and -hit/dam. And dont forgett the increased movement cost. This sound like a pretty powerfull cabal power all in all. But if you add in the ability to make mages useless by all accounts, I feel it is a bit much.

It wasnt really a problem before, since sylvan did not effectivly attack the spire and towns. But as far as I have understood, outlander do this alot.

Manacles leave mages to mere preppers, standing outside town giving shields, haste/slow and whatever they can if there are any tribunal at all around. If there are, they ALWAYS go for the -manacle mage- first.

Cerunnir.

There are several things in consideration in this discussion I would like to point out:

a) It takes just one newbie/corrupted/ignorant tribunal to wrongfully screw you big time while you are retrieving your cabal item.
Main difference with other cabals - this can be done out of pk.

b) Manacles render mages 99% useless (shifters are exception) while have almost no effect on other classes.

c) Immortals of CF view manacles as well designed/balanced power and vigorously defend it's current design.

d) Tribbies can call/release guards over and over indefinitely.
To prevent abuse I would put at least 3 ticks delay before you can call for help again.

There are both advantages and disadvantages to the entire situation, on both sides of the Tribunal-Outlander conflict. Obviously, Outlanders are going to be wanted quite a bit, especially at the high levels, so in your scenario the mage may already well be wanted. But, he also may well not be, and since the Tribunal is not permitted to flag someone who is trying to retrieve an item, this won't always be the case. And if he *isn't* wanted already, even if he has defenders in his pk range, he can flee one room away and stand there sticking his tongue out at them. That's a big advantage over a Tribunal raiding the Outlanders, in which any Outlanders who are around can set up traps, ambush, lurk around in hiding, and do other sorts of dirty tricks in the forest before a fleeing asailant could retreat even for a moment. Like I said, there are advantages and disadvantages to both situations.

I can't say I am completely familiar with how manacles restricts each class, but I can just say that thematically, it can well be argued that mages, particularly Outlander mages, are more capable of being particularly disruptive to the sanctity of a city and more capable of evading punishment. Bards would probably be in this category as well, and if they were rendered incapable of using an instrument while manacled, (either unable to sing or forced to use 'a capella' depending on their level) I wouldn't complain.

Vocal casting. Similar to a capella. You can stil cast if you hands a bound down by either thieves or manacles. But with a reduced casting level.

Vocal casting would only be used when manacled or bound down, so it will be hard to increase it from 75%.



-----


Since I played Starkad I know that a char made towards being a crimnal, that is played by a decent player. Will be wanted 75% of his life. Meaning the chance to be wanted in a retrieval will be great.

But I see your point. I just dont like the idea of a power that is out of PK can completly disable a class.

>But I see your point. I just dont like the idea of a power
>that is out of PK can completly disable a class.

This statement is false.

We probably have a different view on what complete disablement is. But a transmuter or invoker without spells is pretty useless for anything else than a meat shield(with preps).

But anyways..etc.

>We probably have a different view on what complete
>disablement is. But a transmuter or invoker without spells is
>pretty useless for anything else than a meat shield(with
>preps).

Then you are overlooking 3 skills you get at level 1 that can change that. If you know you are wanted, and are going to retrieve against the tribunals, plan for it.

.

if you know all the super uber stuff that 99.99% of people dont know about. But that aside, and using the stuff you could get even if you are well rounded in area/prep knowledge, just using wands and scrolls would probably reduce a voker's effectiveness by ..ohhh 1000%?

Not saying manacles are overpowered, but with those 3 skills alone (wands/staves/scrolls), you will probably get your arse handed to you. Trying to kill a cabal inner or outer without your spells as a voker and with just wands of scrolls...i dont care how you go about it, its not gonna happen. Unless you come back 50 times and keep doing it, unless you got some mad progging gear.