I've always felt exp loss in games is something of an anachronism. There is already enough of a deterrent for dying in the form of con loss, and exp loss as a deterrent for graveyard zerging mobs down is already satisfied by veteran status, and the aforementioned con loss.

You can leave in suicide causing an exp hole for level sitters, if need be.

All the mmos that had an exp loss on death system have removed it (not that we should be like mmos, but its an example)

I think it's fine the way it is. You can tell because it is that way. :)

nt

It's a little tongue-in-cheek, in that there are changes I would like to see in the game but lack the time or motivation to implement, but none of those are something that would be as easy as this would be.

>All the mmos that had an exp loss on death system have
>removed it (not that we should be like mmos, but its an
>example)

I could go through a list of things we have and MMO's don't, or MMO's do and we don't, but that'd be a silly exercise.

I'm happy with how death works in CF, and you can never fall to far behind anyone else at your level (as opposed to the old days of 100k XP holes).

Give it the caveat that you can't be grouped with anyone. Overall, this would seem to encourage exploration of the more dangerous areas pre-hero.

Part of the risk is fighting tougher things, the other is losing the xp if you do die.

Yay for a level 35 or lower area explore that's almost certainly a guarantee of at least one mob death? I already gave up on it after burning con there. Point being you have a choice to do it or not.

The cap on the xp hole does make it tolerable I'd say, still annoying to die repeatedly exploring an area though :)

Ultimately with most any area I just say F*** it and do it at hero. If the exploration is related to upping the obs/explore xp, you can do it at hero and get all you need. And it is just as fun to go through an area reading and looking at things at 51 as it is at 35, plus you can do so without all the frustrations of frequent death and even if you do, no xp loss.

What you said in your post is very true, but you never said anything about why you think 'exploration pre hero should be a little risky'.

A character benefits in multiple ways from exploration.
You garner edge points from exploration and observation xp. Exploration generally enhances a character's over all abilities because of this. You can also acquire some gear things if you're patient enough to do it.

If there was no risk to doing it besides possibly losing con, it makes it easier to gain those things, which means it is easier to gain the advantage at your level if you just take the time and don't mind maybe losing a point of con to do so.

I like a risk vs. reward system, and since exploration garners rewards I like an element of risk.
Con loss is an ever present risk at any rank, but I find I don't mind dying at hero nearly as much because I don't have to regain that xp.

Just my thoughts.

If this was how it was designed, I'd probably be a lot more content with things. There are many places you can explore at low levels - places where nothing is aggro - that give copious amounts of explore/obs xp. There's no risk in doing so, and you can even do it before level 11.

The opposite certainly isn't true for many areas, though. I was recently exploring Keep of the Fhalaugash alone with a mid level character (this area is difficult.. despite no mobs giving over 100xp at the time). It took quite some time, and yet I earned no explore/obs xp whatsoever for doing it. Now, maybe I missed a room or something, but the contrast is striking. Why waste my time there when I can explore a bunch of other areas at little risk to myself and for much greater gain?

But not all areas are created equal.
Nor were they all written at the same time.

I've been through that keep and you're right, really I don't see much reason to go there with any character outside of maybe to get a specific item/weapon or two. I've been through it with a hero, looked around, had a little fun reading the descriptions, and have never gone back since. Maybe if I were an orc I'd go back to check things again, but otherwise I ignore the place.

There is only so much Imms can do in revamping areas and making them all sort of equal in terms of the risk/reward associated with them at various ranks. I can think of numerous areas that see little foot traffic, if any at all. And really it's due to area design.

Generally more trafficed areas have one or more of the following: obs/exp xp, good for ranking mobs, useful items/gear, quests.
Areas that lack it see little traffic. The Crystal Island comes to mind, it's not a terrible ranking spot because it's remote so you can go there and generally be left alone, but there isn't anything else going for it. A decent polearm is about it. And in terms of ranking, there are better areas at that level that are generally easier for greater reward. So it's usually always empty.

Look at the prison area explore that went in. I imagine there is a reward to solving it all and going through the whole area that may make it worthwhile to some so that they won't mind dying a few times figuring it out. I personally don't care to take that risk and burn a con point or three for the sake of doing so and constantl faling back into an xp hole. So I miss out on the possible rewards. The xp loss is just one more element of the related risk in what people have to weigh when they make those choices. When really death's only consequence is 1/3 of a con point, the metric, to me, skews more heavily in taking those risks.

Though I'll be the first to say, dying when say 200 tnl and then having it as 26000 royally sucks.

As a player you have a choice of what you choose to do, an what you choose to pass on.

if I play a character that can find a group, a mob death is just an opportunity to allow me to practice skills or stay in a lower pk range longer.

Exp loss bothers me only when I'm playing a class its hard to solo gain the exp back.

All it really does at this point is dissuade people from exploring areas at the level they're meant to be explored. The con loss does that well enough, wouldn't you say?

The system is just terribly awkward in it's current state. The second mob death in a row isn't even penalized unless you've earned xp since, and yet if you die when you're 90% through the level you've literally lost over a level's worth of xp. It seems specifically designed to punish hunting in dangerous areas when you're close to the next rank.

I remember deleting characters due to xp holes back in the day, and I'm definitely glad that no longer happens. But at this point, the idea of xp loss does infinitely more harm than good, and only serves to piss people off when they die 1000tnl.

I've seen people run purposefully into mobs chasing them just to deny the player kill. Why wouldn't that sort of thing happen a lot more often if mob deaths had no penalty?

In fact, I'm not sure why this doesn't happen more often at hero range.

That #### sucked.

After that the current system seems like a frigging gift.

"its better than it was" doesnt mean it still belongs.

But in the last 5 or so characters, I can't remember the last time I ate more than 1 mob death in a single level.