I didn't much appreciate the title I was given. I sent up a prayer to try for some interaction and when I log back in I see I have been punished for it.

I appreciate who ever took the time to read my short role and give me the experience for it. I had a lot of great encounters and interactions with this character. The title basically put me in the mindset of, "Why bother continuing" so I tooled around trying to spark it up. But I couldn't.

That's all I have to say about that.

nt

(PK) Voth the Evil Champion, Full of Himself and Not Much Else

Stop being a baby.

Are you really telling another player to not be a baby after that epic meltdown you had due to whatever happened to Jindicho?

lol

nt

your obsession is really quite lulzy tbh

nt

keep that #### there. Only post useful or contributing things here.

gr

My advice is still valid.

Thats when you take that title, beat ass with it, and get rewarded.

Seems to have an acute case of ####itis, I recommend a strong dose of man the #### up.

For AP, it's a perfect tittle. If I'd play AP, I would be happy to be a bastard like that.

Negative or positive conotation, any title does a few things:
A. It makes your character distinct and recognizable. Any sort of non-stock title is a good thing. I've had a few, and when I've gotten them, it has always brought more life and deeper RP to my character.
B. It probably gets other imms to look at you, if only to see what is going on with the char. This can lead to random immteraction, which can always be fun.
C. It opens up tons of RP possibilities with other people who will be curious about you. You clearly have a story to tell now. You're not a random lowbie dark elf A-P anymore.

That's such a golden opportunity, wasted. It's one thing to just get neg-titled (and I think this one really does not qualify even as negative), another to get neg titled and have your char severly gimped by flaws or stat dropping or something. (Look at Jindicho).

Sometimes an Imm wants to see how you respond, and you can ultimately get rewarded for overcoming adversity and such. Lots of villagers F*** up (I see this more than in most other cabals), get exiled and neg titled, work their ass off to get back in, and get rewarded cause they did. Some do delete, which seems like a waste personally.

If you sent up a prayer that was anything other than respectful, be it boasting about yourself, or in anyway disrepctful to any Imm, don't think it will go unnoticed. Sometimes an Imm is doing a little planning on what to do in response. Setting up echoes, mobs to animate, or something else. Always keep in mind, some interactions are spur of the moment, others Imms plan out, and that can take time. If you log off, they might see it as you wasted their time, and act accordingly.

As a relatively unknown low level a-p, you should be cautious when approaching any Imm. Without details, can't say more, but for example I would not be a braggart to Scarabeus or insulting to Baer. I would be interested to know what the prayer was. A shame the char deleted, that could have been fun IC to work through and discover.

09-13 09:54> Voth prayed from 6312 for: Am I too clever for my own good? I think I might be! *Night Laugh*

Wouldn't you come up with a title like that after a pray like this? I'm not sure what he was looking for praying this otherwise.

ergrge

I don't get it.

asadav

But I'm really not a fan of communication which contains an asterisk enclosed emote. Char X tell you: *giggle* or *laugh*. Just say that made me laugh. Emotes are generally something you do, not something you say.

Pray, then do the emote, don't put the emote in the pray. Send the prayer, maybe do a few emotes. Maybe you get noticed, maybe not. And you have no control over the outcome if you do. That's the risk you take when you intentionally draw attention to yourself.

Is that something YOU, the player would say when someone makes you laugh.

Or would you.. laugh?

Tells and prays are essentially verbal communication. Personally I'd prefer to spell out the laugh "Muahahahaha!", but it's not like the emotes are really that bad. They convey the sound the player is intending to make.

The only time I have a problem with it is visual emotes over tells, and worse, smileys. I also hate the "Someone tells you "..."" that a lot of people seem to like, for some reason.

Generally when I play, I avoid doing any emote via tell. If someone says something humorous via tell, I may audibly laugh as a player sitting there reading it, but I won't type in reply *laugh* or reply That made me laugh. I might say something contextual though. I have said "How amusing" and similar things though as part of a conversation via tell if I found it to be so. If it is in person, I would use the emotes as warranted.

Conversations I generally prefer to be in person just for that reason that they tend to be a little richer and immersive.

I would be fine with someone spelling out muahahahaha in a tell actually. Just not *laugh*. Or *shudder* *sob* or any of the emotes that are non-verbal in nature, even if they might have an audible element.

Just a preference I have.

And yeah, if someone tells me ":):, I just try to ignore it.
The dramatic pause of the "..." The elapsing of time creates that same effect. Or you trail it off in a sentence..., generally for effect of to let someone know there is something to follow.

I think using ellipses is an appropriate tool when you want to break up long strings of text to indicate that you have more to say.

It can actually be used to simulate a little bit more of a "real-time" communication, rather than blitz the other guy with a wall of text all at one time.

Which is also good to let the other guy know you're not sitting there braindead while you're typing out a paragraph. For instance, when interviewing someone it always bugged me more when the guy would just sit there for five minutes and then blurt out a wall of text, that I'd inevitable miss anyways because it would scroll out of my screen too fast. Way easier to ingest if broken up (and for bonus points you can inject emotes in between).

Java meant when they send a tell that is JUST "..."

I use the hell out of ellipses in game. I just never use them by themselves.

I had that happen to me a few days ago though, someone sent me a "..." after I said something controversial to him. Kinda annoyed me.

Stunned silence in other words.

I would emote it if I were in front of you.

But ... alone is acceptable in writing so why not here?

Because tells are supposed to be verbal.

If you want to RP stunned silence then just.. be silent. Seems to make sense to me.

There should be nothing contained in a tell that another PC wouldn't be able to actually hear. That includes *sagenod* or *eyeroll* too.

>Because tells are supposed to be verbal.

What makes you say that? I've never seen anything in the game or in help files that even suggests that. As far as I'm concerned tell is mind to mind psychic communication. There's no reason that can't include imagery.

Tells don't work if you're asleep.

They don't work if you're deaf.

They DO work if you're blind.

What does that tell you? That tells are verbal, they aren't visual. They are essentially audio communication, the game makes it pretty clear (if it was pure telepathy, deafness would not affect it).

If it makes it easier for you, think of a tell as a phone call.

The narrow mindedness of your thinking and your lack of understanding on how your descision to not reply plays out to another player is staggering.

I generally haven't your characters because I felt like you were rude. This is a stunning revelation to me because it seems that you may not be intentionally trying to be rude, you are just unaware of how poorly you are getting information across.

I didn't insult anyone on that post. I didn't call anyone stupid or retarded. I just gave the facts, and my interpretation of them. If that offends you somehow.. well, tough.

Valeknar specifically asked me why I thought tells were verbal. I told him.

The fact that tells don't work while deaf is clear-cut proof that tells require hearing to work, isn't it?

With that being said, a tell should only contain information that another player could actually hear. A player cannot hear an eyeroll or a nod or a smile. A player cannot hear a pause (by definition, a pause is a lack of sound). A player can hear words, and sounds.

I'm truly sorry if those facts upset your delicate sensibilities, but they are facts, per the mechanics of the game.

I could come up with various reasons why deafness might not work but that would be exceeding the scope of the game.

The main point of the ... is to connote information.

Raybaer says to each his own, but your reasoning is flawed and frankly a frustrating behavior to have to deal with in the game.

Has anyone?

No, because in game I roleplay. I don't try to nitpick with characters about how they RP. If you sent that tell to me IC, I'd likely just roll my eyes and move on with the game. You'd never know the difference.

My argument was more along the lines of other non-audible emotes such as nods. But I do think it also applies to silence.

Why is it mechanically impossible to tell a deaf character "..."? The same reason it's mechanically impossible to tell a deaf character anything. It's because tells are supposed to be heard.

I mean, I get that it's an RP shortcut to let the player know that the pause is intentional. I just think it's a little bit lazy, kind of along the lines of someone saying "What path do you walk?".
Personally, if I'm speechless IC I would usually respond with something along the lines of "I... uh....." or even just a "....... Then I continue on with the thought in the same tell".

Contrary to popular belief, Raybaer and I don't agree on everything. And Imms are not infallible. Not even when they've empowered me a dozen or so times.

>Valeknar specifically asked me why I thought tells were
>verbal. I told him.

Yeah, it was pretty dumb of me to not immediately think of deafness. I don't think that sleep has anything to do with it though, since group chat does work despite unconsciousness.

In point of fact, I really dislike emotes in tells either, but I don't think that tells are so well-defined that you can say that they're categorically invalid.

>The fact that tells don't work while deaf is clear-cut proof
>that tells require hearing to work, isn't it?

Not really. There are a lot of vague approximations in this game and how the various forms of deafness work is one. I do agree that tells are mostly auditory, but I think it's a mistake to pretend like there isn't more to it than purely sonic mechanisms.

To use logic similar to your own, doesn't the fact that you know whether they're able to hear you, and sometimes why (because of deafness or sleeping, or being in Organia) show that there's more to it than sound alone? If it was just sound you wouldn't get that feedback. And you can't have it both ways and say that those things are just side-effects of technical limitations but the rest of the stuff you cited isn't.

I'll take back that tells could have a visual component, but I'd still argue that they have a mental-link component, and an empty or, uh, elliptical (?) tell is perfectly logical within the context of the game and has meaning.

Just to have this clear, if I were to tell *smiling* bleh blah bleu
Then Java would be okay with it perhaps (since you can hear when
someone is smiling when they talk) but it would kind of irk you?
Another person would be seriously peeved and yet another wouldn't
care at all. Some might even think 'kudos'. Rock on then do whatever
and let people deal with it as they will, let's just TRY to keep
that ooc 'X pisses me off as a player' thing low key. I'm a different
sort of picky. I don't care about caps (or lack of) punctuation?
Pfft. It's spelling that does me in, sadly some words have had
the way they are spelled altered some time back and I never noticed.
*shrug* I try to suck it up and deal. :) When I am in pk and flub
words at the keyboard in a mid-battle tell I USED to backspace and
correct it. Now I send the icky tell and hate myself later. Hehe.

So how about this, we all cut people some slack on our pet peeves
realizing that we just might not see it the same way AND to be able
to cope we roll peeve-based characters. Some psychotic pk fellow
who tries to eat the face of people who do whatever it is that
pisses you off personally. Beg the gods for a flag like the newbie
flag to denote a pissed off vengeance character who has no role and
... Oh wait this is SUCH a bad idea, never mind, just stay pissed.
:)

You can get a fair idea of someone's facial expression by the tone of the voice. Think about how someone's voice changes as you talk on the phone: you can often 'hear' it when they smile.

Just apply your own argument. If I'm deaf, I cannot tell the difference between someone talking and someone pausing in their speech. If I'm not deaf, I can.

>I had that happen to me a few days ago though, someone sent me
>a "..." after I said something controversial to him. Kinda
>annoyed me.

It's an unfortunate limitation of the technology that you can never tell the difference between someone not responding to you and not seeing what you typed. I really like the ellipsis-only tell because that is basically the only way that someone can ignore you because of RP and have you know that the player saw the tell.

I find this particularly relevant when asking people to group. Often your enemies will ignore you because they don't want to admit they're you're enemies, but it's also common for people to be out ranking or in a fight and not see your question. So often I have to ask a few times to be sure that I'm being actively ignored, which is pretty frustrating.

I like to use it to convey shock or speechlessness. Each to their own I guess!

Did the player get some interaction or just a crappy title?

If it was just a crappy title that does seem lame to me. Obviously the player in question also was put off by that response.

If the player got interaction to go with the title I don't see what they could possibly complain about though.

To me this was a glaring "#### You". At least that's how I took it, rightly or wrongly.

I don't see something like this as something to work through. I see it as an Imm saying, I have watched you and you are a douche.

Given what I was trying to accomplish with the character I mainly took it to mean, "Your stupid little plan didn't work and we're going to let the people who were wrapped up in it know."

Judging by the comment of one of the character's in my little plot they felt similarly.


I've tried looking at it in the way you describe and some above have suggested but given the context, this was a deal breaker for me personally.

And yes, you did.

But you are being disengenuous if you think I was praying as a means to show I wanted to be marked as a ####wad.

I wasn't a tool, or even acting like one, but this title gave that impression and it wasn't fair to mark me in a negative way.

All I was doing was sending a pray up after sending that note out as a means of letting anyone who might be watching that it was part of a plan.

But whatever man, if you think it's cool to arbitrarily #### on someone because you can, you go you.

> All I was doing was sending a pray up after sending that note out as a means of letting anyone who might be watching that it was part of a plan.

I suggest you be less ambiguous in the future, then.

You asked for attention; you got attention. The title seemed to fit your RP, and as such I don't see why you would think it was negative. Your character's conceited. So? Why does a reputation for that constitute a punishment of you as a player.

Aside to players who want more immteraction and don't get it: this is why you can't have nice things.

Voth Talks the talk but don't walk the walk.

Thanks, but no. it was a negative title aimed at the player not the character.

I had accomplished something pretty smoovy and I was #### on for it. That's how I see it.

You did something you thought was nifty, no one in your house to
chortle with, no one IC you could get a pat on the back from so
you looked to the heavens for some attention.

Now at that moment apparently no one was watching you engrossed in
how wittily you turn a phrase in your note, so imagine a guy you
are trying to get the attention of, who is looking at a pretty
girl, and you start clamoring about how cool you are and say
"LOOK AT ME" (90% of prays are this by the way)
So the guy looks at you and says "You aren't as cool as you think
you are" and then goes back to looking at the girl.

Honestly I'd have run with it like mad, Since I pk for #### anyway
I'd be the most arrogant bastard ever even WHILE getting my ass
handed to me.... and I'd have probably con died pretty quickly.
:)

If you look to the heavens for a pat on the back give A a reason
for them to pat you on the back assuming they have NO idea what
you are currently doing and B it's better to focus on a specific
"deity" when praying, maybe a group.. like "Generic dark lords
I did this spiffy thing, aren't you proud of me" and if you STILL
get a negative title it means no no they really aren't proud of you.
That's ALL.

It would have been fine if you didn't come here bitching, but since
you did it kinda makes the imm who titled you spot on. Hey I'm cool
no you aren't. delete. whine.
Think about it.

>I suggest you be less ambiguous in the future, then.

This. My thoughts:

1. The title does suck. It's clearly negative and isn't really deserved given the intent of the prayer. I would be annoyed too if I got this title for doing what he did.

2. The prayer was worded in such a way as to seem extremely cocky and whichever imm saw it probably didn't realize it was in reference to a note the character just sent. So the decision to give the title was totally reasonable.

3. This misunderstanding might have been avoided if the prayer had specifically referenced the note and/or been directed to a specific imm. Even with a reference to the note, it probably isn't a good idea for a mortal to broadcast his nefarious plot to the entire Theran pantheon. Of course, something like this might have been cool:

"My plan progresses, Deceiver. Even now my words worm their way into the hearts of men. May you delight in what I have wrought!"

Basically this says, "Hey Reksah- check out what I just did. Neat, huh?"

The prayer he actually prayed just sort of says, "Boy am I smart."

I'll take this advice because it seems relevant and reasonable. Thanks!

You probably should interpret marriage as less of a cause and more of an effect. If we didn't think alike about a lot of things we probably wouldn't be. :P

xdvsdfv

Pretend for a moment you're in ancient Greece, complete with a long list of powerful gods up on Mt. Olympus.

You're a mortal. You're a bigger deal than say, a peasant, but you're not all that either by any stretch.

You pray to all those different gods, "Am I too clever for my own good? I think I might be!". (And you cackle, or whatever.)

I think you should consider yourself lucky Rayihn can't make you roll a boulder up a hill all day long and be content with the fact that you were recognized (in a harmless way) for the RP in which you engaged.

Instead I got a title that to me was an OOC way of saying this character sucks.

Consider this, a fire giant I was playing the character before this had a bad ass interaction with Baer after a prayer. I deleted that character because I wasn't feeling it. But that was some neat stuff following an interaction.

This one, after actually doing something diabolical and pretty neat in terms of our little univers, I got that ####ty title.

I don't care what people are saying about how "lucky" I am. It's like having your boss #### on your desk and all the other workers comming over and lamenting how they never get that much attention from him.

You were right before you edited your post, when it said something like "I'm the one with the perception problem."

I'm glad you had a positive interaction with Baerinika with your previous character.

However, since your pray was entirely IC (Voth making a snide comment to the masters of his universe) and was handled in an entirely IC manner, it makes me think you're one of those guys who wants his characters to be rewarded and acknowledged, but only for the good things and only in ways that will make other players think you/Voth is such a cool dude.

You may have been blindsided by the results the RP decision you made (which sucks), but it was appropriate and reasonable nonetheless.

You guys are free to think otherwise, but it was my character and that was a game ender for me.

You aren't going to convince me that it wasn't an intentional cosmic F-you because it clearly was.

I'll just keep my mouth shut in the futre and the problem is solved.

nt

And I don't think you're the only one who does among the cf community.

Shocker warning: the imms arent out to ruin your day.

Unless you get ROTDed, or otherwise crippled mechanically, you have nothing to complain about. Its just an opportunity to go back, beat ass, and make them eat that title.

Unless you get your skills removed and your stats set to straight 10s, you should stick it out and get rewarded for it later.

...I got a title once, Dronstyrr the Grand Master of Changelings, Too Stupid to Live. Title was COMPLETELY deserved. It was for much the same reason as yours, as well. My character got basically black-balled from Scion so I told Mergulla she didn't know how to consolidate power (since I was actually one of the few evil heroes) and that she would rue the day she crossed me.

Turns out, Gods have more power then men :)

But seriously, if you were that upset about that title (which isn't even that bad, you could have had a title that invites people to grief you like Sisawat or whatever - the title that was like "Thrives on the corpses of Fallen Heroes") you can take this as a learning experience. As Isildur said in his post, next time maybe throw up that pray and make it clearer that the pray is COMPLETELY in character. As someone else said, that pray really looks like a 'Hey look at me, I'm so awesome everyone should be worshipping at the altar of my awesomeness'.

Also, seriously dude, that title is nothing. Try getting your stats permenantly altered :)

I spent a lot of Dronstyrr's life saying "I think the player knows he's beating his head against a brick wall here, but damn it, he keeps beating his head against that brick wall."

While I personally wouldn't have been tempted to interact with you based on your prayer, as soon as you send up an IC prayer you have invited immortal response. Sometimes that will be in your favour, sometimes it won't. Whatever response you get becomes a part of your character's story--so if you get a negative title after an event like this, what will you do about it? Getting worked up about it and making it an OOC issue is probably not the best response.

>Sometimes that
>will be in your favour, sometimes it won't.

You were in Europe too long and went native.

It's terrible--I'm some freakish hybrid now, because I also still do things like use Zs at the ends of words (e.g., "recognize" instead of "recognise"). Mostly.

(On the bright side, at least I haven't asked if you have a crabbit wee bairn...)



Dumb mark up rules.

~

At my first Burns Supper, during the Address I looked at my glass and thought, "What's in this whisky that I can no longer understand English?"

I have given that address to the Haggis a few times as a younger man. Never thought how alien it may sound to a visitor!

How'd you like your Haggis, Neeps and Tatties?

Alien and yet almost recognizable, and certainly more recognizable than a Glaswegian accent!

I enjoyed it, though I confess--and I know this will break a Scottish heart--I ate the vegetarian haggis. In my defense, I haven't eaten meat in decades and no longer have the enzymes to digest it.

For the meaty Haggis is a joy to behold!

So when and how long were you over in my motherland?

Shame we never knew. Could have met up for a wee dram and a blether.

I lived in Edinburgh 2009-10 and am still back and forth periodically. Where are you located?

Alas, I was so busy while I lived there that I tended not to be the one initiating social calls--I was fortunate to have friends that did make me slow down and grab a pint from time to time.

Dundee 94-99
Edinburgh 99-01
Glasgow 01-03
Cardiff then Magor, Wales 03-07
Gloucester, England 07-10
Magor, Wales 10-present

Family still in Dundee area and have friends still in each city, especially Edinburgh, so I pass through a lot. Would move back to Glasgow or Edinburgh in a minute if the right job/circumstance arose.

Lol its like a list of really bad places to live :P Jk

~

>Lol its like a list of really bad places to live :P Jk

Heathen bastard.
I'm just curious if it was Scarab' that was referred to as the crabbit wee bairn. ;)

So much love to give, so little time to give it :)