I don't know what's up with role contest feedback, but that's twice* that I've sent an email asking for it, after character deletion, never getting it.

Also, I would think you would have to take notes on the candidates anyhow, so, if you write those down in a way that is postable, you might as well do that and be done with it.

I don't enter RC's for the prices (if I should win anything, that's an unexpected bonus) but to learn what you liked/didn't like. For what you think was good and what you think could have been better/different. The way Nnaeshuk did it was perfect for that.

If I don't ever hear anything, that makes me not want to enter RC's at all.

* Might be even thrice, but I am not sure.

PS: I realise you might have been too busy to reply, didn't check my character yet or plainly missed the email, but posting all feedback yourself fixes that upfront.

n/t

See my reply to Twist.

Would you want feedback, if it might mean you weren't eligible for the RC at all?

I'm not likely to provide feedback for your typical role contest with 70 or 80 entries. For most roles it's going to be some form of "I got bored at chapter 2 of 14 and stopped reading. Next role."

I might be willing to do more detailed/constructive feedback than that with an entry restriction that thinned the entries or reading load considerably. E.g. "good aligned roles only" or "I'm only reading Chapter 4."

I don't know if that would make people more or less happy.

How about for $10 donation, you get PBF+? An Imm will read your entire role and provide feedback, perhaps with a few extra post-death Imm comments.

And, actually, I'm not being sarcastic. I'd pay $5 more for a little bit extra of the character criticism/character improvement angle.

I'll charge you only $2.50 to critque your role.

Better yet, forget the PBF completely. Pay me $6 and send me your role.

I would totally want the feed back vs. being ineligible for an RC.
Even if it ended up like: "You really should stick to playing
characters without roles" Hehehe. Of course I'd prefer a more
detailed breakdown, but I have that super power... you know?
The ability to suck it up and deal?*


*Barring the VERY few outbursts from WTF, No way(tm) and BS! moments.
and once the momentary outburst is over I'm back to dealing. :)

I personally take any feedback over no feedback, no matter how bad it might be. After all, even if I suck, how am I going to know if no one ever tells me that? I just might be going along, thinking I'm doing fine.

Personally I wouldn't mind if only the very first entry was considered for RCs.

People who like to write novels get imm exp anyway typically, so no need to incorporate those in a RC.

If I had to provide role feedback on roles I would never, ever, ever run a role contest.

There are often about 70 submitted, and a lot of times you cull them for generally sucking and/or just not striking a chord with you. It's subjective. If I had to articulate "printable" commentary for 70 roles I'd hurt someone AND I'm guessing 1/2 of you would want to argue back with me. It's supposed to be a fun contest - not a set of papers to grade.

That said, very brief comments about roles very often happen in your history, and you can buy that for $5 and dent some of our operating costs while you're at it. Also, publishing your PBF (RC or not) will publish your role and you can try to get community feedback at that point, if you want.

If you're having RCs without (reliable) feedback, I'd much rather have you (all IMMs) gather everyone's top three RPer lists and reward the three topmost characters, out of the blue.

The end result is exactly the same, it doesn't get anyone's hopes up for nothing (well, it's not 'that' bad ...) and you guys don't have to invest more than 5 minutes.

To be blunt, if you don't intend to go all the way, I say it's better you don't start at all, rather than do it half assed.

So you get 70 entries? Toss like 50 of them, that just don't click, or are too long to read, on the "not going to happen" pile. Their feedback would be easy: "Didn't really catch my attention at all." Or, "Too long, didn't read."

That leaves you with plenty more time for the remaining 20.

no text

>So you get 70 entries? Toss like 50 of them, that just don't
>click, or are too long to read, on the "not going to happen"
>pile. Their feedback would be easy: "Didn't really catch my
>attention at all." Or, "Too long, didn't read."
>
>That leaves you with plenty more time for the remaining 20.

Maybe a role that IMM X doesn't like, I do. Maybe I read long roles
and sometimes enjoy them and don't feel like it's a criticism, but IMM
Y despises them. I don't see how feedback based on personal reading
preference helps anyone beyond saying, "Hey, Iunna likes *these* kinds
of roles, so just enter her contest." Besides, isn't "Didn't really catch my
attention at all" and "Too long, didn't read" just another way of saying
someone didn't like it, which you would already know by not winning? :P

Unless you're looking for feedback on standard things like grammar,
format, etc., I don't see how subjective feedback is going to make or
break what people do in the future.

"Didn't really catch my
attention at all and Too long, didn't read just another way of saying
someone didn't like it, which you would already know by not winning?"

The difference is that without any further feedback, there's no real difference between ending 70th and 4th (forgetting runner ups). With this sort of remarks, you know you either didn't even make first selection or not.

For myself, I think I am pretty good at this RP thing (or can be), and am trying to get better still. IMM exp and the related PBF comments are great, but they are just brief snapshots. As an RC reading is a little more thorough (if you catch the attention), I would think it's better at getting judged on the entire scope.

>If you're having RCs without (reliable) feedback, I'd much
>rather have you (all IMMs) gather everyone's top three RPer
>lists and reward the three topmost characters, out of the
>blue.
>
>The end result is exactly the same, it doesn't get anyone's
>hopes up for nothing (well, it's not 'that' bad ...) and you
>guys don't have to invest more than 5 minutes.


Yes, it would...that would be rewarding active RP (which I'm a huge fan of and try to do on a regular basis) and a role contest rewards static, written documents via our role command. I'm a big fan of both.


>
>To be blunt, if you don't intend to go all the way, I say it's
>better you don't start at all, rather than do it half assed.
>


Yeah, that noise was my jaw hitting the floor. I'm having a hard time taking anybody seriously that has the audacity to call running a role contest without documenting why each loser didn't win (and then sending it to that player in some form) half assed. See Twist's post below about you coming across like a complete d.i.c.k. and consider it cosigned.


>So you get 70 entries? Toss like 50 of them, that just don't
>click, or are too long to read, on the "not going to happen"
>pile. Their feedback would be easy: "Didn't really catch my
>attention at all." Or, "Too long, didn't read."

I don't think "didn't do anything for me" or "WTF is this person's point?" would make anybody feel better about the situation. It's subjective. See Iunna's very good point about why it's not even helpful to try to change your role writing based on one person's judgment...because we vary greatly as a staff.

In the "free contests with prizes and volunteer judges" arena of things, I don't think it's the norm to get constructive feedback. I'm thinking back to all of the random "contests" I've entered or been asked to judge (art contests, poetry contests, science fairs when it wasn't part of a class grade, best paper awards at a conference, teaching awards out of a group of faculty)...the judges never create detailed feedback for the losers (or winners, often). You pretty much figure it out if your name does NOT appear on the list of winners.


While I have no interest in researching this, I feel certain there are creative writing clubs and contests that you can participate in, that are designed to give you this outlet for people reading and commenting on your creative writing. If our history summaries and comments other players can make on your PBF aren't enough, I think you should explore these other outlets.

I did not take notes on the roles I read for the July contest. I read through all the roles that were submitted and picked the best three.

If you have no notes, you have nothing to mail back.

...you're really coming off (to me anyways) like a d.i.c.k. in this thread. Either you *are* a d.i.c.k., yet an exceptional roleplayer so you were able to pull off a character like Thuorn, or you are not realizing how much of an entitlement-trip you're projecting. Having enjoyed rping with Thuorn, I'd like to think it's the latter.

Edited to make it clear, despite language filters, that I said ####. Not ####, or something else. :)

Cause I don't mean to be one and it's definitely the latter. If you have that impression it's because I am stating things in a harsher way than I mean to, and I am sorry.

running a rolecontest is a ton of work, as I understand it, and for the longest time there wasn't any feedback involved in the process: it was just a nice thing imms did to reward a few fun and interesting roles.

Expecting every imm in every role contest to maintain detailed feedback on every role they read upon demand is pushing it a bit hard, don't you think? They're unpaid volunteers playing a game - I don't get where your expectation that they HAVE to give feedback comes from. Feedback is more of an optional bonus that an imm can offer up if he has extra free time, not a contractual obligation that he should be punished for slacking off on.

The average role contest pushes an imm to read 70-something roles, some of them damn near novel length, for no real compensation whatsoever. Expecting anything beyond the initial reading seems rather silly and ungrateful to me.

Yeah, I love it when imms give feedback too, but if they can't or don't, then it shouldn't be such a big deal. Running role contests shouldn't be a chore or obligation, it should be a fun opportunity to reward unique and interesting characters who might otherwise be overlooked.

Maybe they could sell RC feedback for a $5 donation.

...also, you misspelled genius as "genious" and really what kind of character is going to wear a bacon brassierre anyways?

$5.00 please.

Just make 'em pay up front. Or even better, make it an add-on to the PBF purchase. You pay $7.50 and you get the PBF plus an "staff assessment" of your role.

Mostly I was joking, though.

nt

n/t

.

nt