Out of curiosity do you guys keep stats on how many times someone will roll the bones/spin the wheel on a given form? I know preference can be a big part of it, but I also know there are certain forms no one wants to play. Lemur, Gorilla, jaguar come to mind, but I'm sure there's others. If you do and find some forms no one wants what's the chance they'll be tweaked? Thanks.

So did mongoose get ubder nerfed? Cause I was able to solo down to 3rd-4th Circle with it before.

Alternately he could tweak all the other forms to make them a little worse, then leave jaguar, gorilla, et. al. the same.

>Out of curiosity do you guys keep stats on how many times
>someone will roll the bones/spin the wheel on a given form?

Yup, I even posted stats once before (though I can't seem to find that post anymore).

>I know preference can be a big part of it, but I also know there
>are certain forms no one wants to play. Lemur, Gorilla, jaguar
>come to mind, but I'm sure there's others.

Honestly, I doubt you'll see many changes to defense forms based on people re-rolling. That is the one focus that is very skewed towards preference, and I think all of those are viable forms as they currently stand.

>If you do and find
>some forms no one wants what's the chance they'll be tweaked?

Vulture was one that got tweaked specifically because so many folks had re-rolled it.


Since November of 2010...
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form howler monkey for cheetah
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form sifaka lemur for crocodile
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form hyena for wildcat
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form vulture for golden eagle
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form sifaka lemur for komodo dragon
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form mongoose for diamondback rattlesnake
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form jaguar for dire wolf
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form silverback gorilla for tiger
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form silverback gorilla for tiger
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form sifaka lemur for pachyderm
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form silverback gorilla for ram
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form armadillo for komodo dragon
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form wolverine for jaguar
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form jaguar for grizzly bear
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form silverback gorilla for jaguar
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form rhinoceros for dire wolf
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form howler monkey for cheetah
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form vampire bat for golden eagle
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form fox for hyena
Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form wildcat for hyena
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form silverback gorilla for ram
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form silverback gorilla for wolverine
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form vampire bat for vulture
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form jaguar for ram
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form jaguar for tiger
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form mongoose for porcupine
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form jaguar for alligator
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form vulture for owl
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form porcupine for crocodile
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form mongoose for pachyderm
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form grizzly bear for silverback gorilla
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form ram for jaguar
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form porcupine for komodo dragon
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form jaguar for tiger
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form mongoose for komodo dragon
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form porcupine for armadillo
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form silverback gorilla for tiger
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form wildcat for cobra
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form hyena for orangutan
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form porcupine for komodo dragon
Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form jaguar for silverback gorilla

Breakdown:

7: Jaguar
7: Silverback Gorilla
4: Mongoose
4: Porcupine
3: Sifaka Lemur
2: Vampire Bat
2: Vulture
2: Wildcat
2: Howler Monkey
2: Hyena
1: Armadillo
1: Fox
1: Grizzly Bear
1: Ram
1: Rhinoceros
1: Wolverine


It seems like all the defense guys want crocodile for the regen.

Same as porcupine. So I really don't know why people were switching those ones out. Jaguar is THE most defensive offensive form in the game. Plus with ambush and camo. It's a really good form. It's like a slightly weaker wolverine with better dodging and more one-shot damage.

Porcupine basically owns everyone's face clean off if you use it correctly. Went offense defense and got lion/porcupine? You just became a rolling ball of death. Someone outdamaging the lion? Switch to porcupine and laugh as they die to your quills. Someone using a polearm/spear against the porcupine? Shift to lion and rake their face clean off, or swipe the weapon from their hands and shift back to porcupine. I really can't ever see a situation where I'd want to switch out the porcupine UNLESS I went Defense/Defense and didn't get a single regen form.

Silverback really does suck though. I haven't found a single person EVER who thought it was worth keeping.

I did some tweaks to Silverback tonight, little more damage overall, little dam redux, little more damage to thundestomp, better chance to lag with smash.

Now I'm going to have to roll a shifter and TRY to get Silverback!

.

The first #### had bull in front of it :)

Inquiring minds want to know!

nt

Great tanking, decent combat damage for a defense foci, can jump (which gets you out of hairy situations).

I mean, don't get me wrong. I think in most situations croc/komodo/pachyderm are probably better choices, but lemur's not bad.

Depending on my other foci, I'd keep it.

Bad attempt at an old joke. I've never even played a shifter before.

This issue came into being when the whole veil went into affect. Basically from my observations the shifting of the veil has an affect on the damage your form does, how well your form dodges, does skill evasion, and hide deflection.


Now when magic is not pumpin hard you have a somewhat increased chance to not avoid skills/spells as a mongoose/lemur and because both forms have no dam redux when those skills do land it hurt big. Conversly with your regen and hide deflection forms since their dam redux stays the same (and they are generally designed with the expectation they will be a damage sponge) they don't suffer as much.


So yeah mongoose and lemur are really fine as logn as magic isn't weak but when you are counting on being able to avoid big direct damage moves because of your low dam redux you are going to be dissapointed. (I mean you still avoid more often than they land but they just don't usually need to land many so you are not as good prepless as other defense forms)

The Veil does have some effects on shifters but I don't believe mongoose/lemur superdodge chance is on the list.

>This issue came into being when the whole veil went into
>affect. Basically from my observations the shifting of the
>veil has an affect on the damage your form does, how well your
>form dodges, does skill evasion, and hide deflection.

This is false. The veil has nothing to do with how well your form dodges, does skill evasion, and hide deflection.

What does affect your dodge/evasion is your forms dexterity. What does affect your hide deflection is your forms constitution. If your opponents are knocking those down, that's a great tactic, that you can also offset with your choice in gear.

Why oh why would you do these??!?!?!?!?!

Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form wolverine for jaguar
WOLVERINE IS ####ING AWESOME! WTF!

Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form rhinoceros for dire wolf
WTF? RHINO IS ####ING AWESOME!

Rolled the Bones and swapped top tier major form fox for hyena
WOW. JUST NO WORDS FOR THIS ONE.

Spun the Wheel and swapped top tier minor form grizzly bear for silverback gorilla
DUDE, YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE FOR SWITCHING GRIZZLY BEAR.



Also, well I understand why the people who switched their porcupine's are happy, I'd never EVER RtB or StW with a porcupine. Those things are nasty.

Second of all, why are people swapping out the Hyena? Hyena is ####ing awesomesauce! It may not be as badass as the cheetah, but it's basically CHEETAH + DAM REDUX - POUNCE. C'MON PEOPLE!!!!!

Final thought is that I've had almost every form or at least travelled with someone who did, and Silverback, Howler Monkey, Mongoose and Lemur seem to be teh suck to everyone. I can think of many situations the monkey would be valuable, so let's throw that one out. Mongoose and Lemur...well, people just are fickle. Those are both great forms but honestly they just aren't as good as Crocodile or Komodo.

You need to look at Silverback Zulg. Beef up the damage a bit or something? Give it 23 dex? I have no idea. It's honestly the one form I'd always switch out no matter the combo.

Crocodile is a great form but it doesn't have a lot of utility. Like Zulgh said, preference is a big component of defense shifters. Mongoose has some definite benefits over crocodile:ates alive.

Mongoose isn't as good for solo murdering, if you actually have a very defensive mindset then it's a good form to get. If your focus is protecting allies in group fights, distract is extremely valuable.

Also a mongoose is extremely hard to lag out no matter what kind of gang you are facing. A crocodile has better survivability if you're not being lagged, but can be killed pretty easily by two people cranialing. As a mongoose you're dodging all those lag moves.

I'd probably also rather be a mongoose for fighting any necro (and to a lesser extent shaman or ap). Forget/scourge/energy drain is a scary thing for shapeshifters, and a crocodile doesn't have any defense against it, while a mongoose does.

Finally, abs shifts the balance. Mongoose without a/b/s has some serious weaknesses (AOE) that make it less survivable, but once you get some dam redux on it, it very solid.

Because crocodile has way more utility.

It's amphibious, it has regen, it can camo on the water or swamp (maybe I'm thinking of alligator for that part). Just the amphibious alone makes it more utility than the mongoose.

As I said in the original post, I don't think I'd ever switch out mongoose/lemur/porcupine unless I went Defense/Defense and didn't get a regen form. I've had mongoose. It's pretty sweet.