Question for Nep. From what you've seen are all the failed attempts at Tiamat a man power issue or a stratgy issue? Is it supposed to be this hard, that noone has been able to take her down in 2 or 3 years since the change?

not sure if you saw this post:

http://forums.carrionfields.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=45&topic_id=363&mesg_id=364&page=

That basically, if you have not fought ALL the other dragons and killed them, that you will fail when fighting Tiamat for a mechanics reason that I cant mention. Thats basically whats deferred me from trying so far. If thats not true, and you really can just attempt Tiamat, (daev claimed anyone could be there fighting him in 5 minutes. If everyone in the group has to have slain the other dragons, that becomes untrue) then I think you would see a LOT more attempts at Tiamat. Rumors can be untrue and a bitch sometimes, and can defer people from wanting to have to go through all the dragon lairs, especially the blue. That was not fun.

So maybe Daev will be nice and hook us up with a tip, being how its been like 3 years and nobody has killed him. Can a group that hasn't done the other dragon lairs go straight to Tiamat and expect any success? Or will you be setting yourself up for pure failure?

(I understand clearing the other lairs will help you understand the tiamat fight more, sure. But is it NEEDED is what im asking)

Can a
>group that hasn't done the other dragon lairs go straight to
>Tiamat and expect any success? Or will you be setting yourself
>up for pure failure?
>
>(I understand clearing the other lairs will help you
>understand the tiamat fight more, sure. But is it NEEDED is
>what im asking)

It's not absolutely needed, but it does give a mechanical advantage.

Ideally the more of your group that's each killed more of the ancient dragons, the better off you'll be. I would expect significantly more casualties with a group with zero dragons under their belt vs. one in which everyone's killed all 5 of the others, and I think you probably know that if people start dying to Tiamat it tends to get ugly quick.

Giving that spoon would be huge, I hate walking around with those essences.

Once you've been part of a group that kills the ancient white, the game keeps track and forever after you'll enjoy an advantage against Tiamat you otherwise wouldn't have, and so on.

Sorry if that wasn't as clear as I had intended.

There's nothing hidden with respect to the essences with respect to Tiamat -- what they do is (fairly) obvious, and if you think that's helpful then that's helpful against her, and if you think it's more of a pain than it's worth and/or you can get the same stuff a different way then you're probably right.

I think now that people understand that having your group clear the dragon lairs out first ups your success rate mechanics wise, you will see much better attempts at Tiamat. Who knows, maybe even a successful one. If there are groups in cf today that are knocking off Arch-Devils and Pit fiends, there is no reason a well put together group can't get Tiamat down. From what I heard, there is a certain invoker in game that has had her convulsing a couple times, i'm sort of rooting for him since he seems so commited to taking her down.

I wonder who would win in a fight, Tiamat or Asmodeus :p Any bets there?

does the number of times you killed the dragons matter or just that you have?

man do I cringe at the thought of taking the blue lair multiple times.

I believe it is like killing an arch devil. It shows up in your completed quest log as "KILLED THE ANCIENT WHITE DRAGON" Like killing Baphomet shows up as "KILLED BAPHOMET". One time, and it remembers it for the rest of your characters life.

Is there an echo and I just missed it when you kill them?

No echo, it just shows up in quests.

Ooh man! Tiamat is almost the only big thing I haven't kill except some stuff in hell. (Of which I have seen a lot though.)

So knowing this makes me very very intersted in returning just to make sure to kill Tiamat! :D (post-change, pre-change I soloed her...)

Will you at least tell us...

Will evils find the spoils to be significantly better and/or more abundant than she used to give?

There are nummies in her chest. Whether they're things you want or not remains to be seen!

Good day to you Madam =P

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