I've noticed there seems to be a hoard of Hero Imms about, and many of them seem to be stuck there, granted some are brand new. Is this just because of the many hoops needed to be jumped through? I was really looking forward to seeing some fresh blood up in the heavens, because I think it would be great for the game. Not saying you old timers aren't doing a good job, but let's face it a lot of you have gotten kind of jaded and I don't blame you. I think a fresh Imm injection would revitalize things for players and you big guys too. I mean I know even a returned and active Scarab has everyone buzzing with excitement(granted he rocks) but I think if we suddenly had another four or so active guys with fresh religions, redone areas, and Immteractions would kick it up a notch, Bam. So if we could get some kind of fast track for some of these guys going and cut some red tape I think we'd be the better for it. Thoughts?

It takes time to make full imm.. but please know EVERYONE in Immland has been super helpful to me, answering all my annoying newbie imm questions... telling me pointers as they see it... so have the older hero imms (Nnae, Malakhi, Anlilthuel)..

and I understand a certain amount of time having to pass, being a full imm comes with alot of responsibility, so I imagine they want to get to know us well and see for themselves that we are trustworthy...

so please know, the higher level imms are "fast-tracking" us as fast as they can. Alot of it also has to do with what we do with the tasks we are given..

Thanks, hope to see ya'll as a full imm soon enough!

Balta

Sounds good best of luck.

For instance, if I wanted to be an imm, could I make the choice not to be a visible imm and just code stuff all day? That's the kind of staff work I like, not the RP/immteraction stuff

Now, I can only speak from my limited experience, but I would say yes..

after you get to a certain point in your imm career, you could stay invis and work on coding... granted this would probably not be possible from the get go..

so if those types of concerns have held you back from applying to the staff, they shouldnt.

>after you get to a certain point in your imm career, you could
>stay invis and work on coding... granted this would probably
>not be possible from the get go..
>
>so if those types of concerns have held you back from applying
>to the staff, they shouldnt.
>

They still do, it seems. RP'ing/interacting with the player base would be a waste of my time, as well as anyone else's who wouldn't want to do it. If my *sole* reason for wanting to imm is to be able to code, I'm not going to spend 50 or 100 hours sending colorful messages to everyone. This isn't any offense to those of the imm staff who are dedicated and like to volunteer their time to do this, but it's something that, personally, is not for me.

Now, ideas, solutions, coding, executing plans, I do that really well. I know Zulg has a laundry list of long-term coding problems to figure out, why not dedicate more people to working on that if they're willing?

>>Now, ideas, solutions, coding, executing plans, I do that really well. I know Zulg has a laundry list of long-term coding problems to figure out, why not dedicate more people to working on that if they're willing?

As I understand it, granting someone access to the CF code is only given to those who have earned not only the trust of the IMPS, but also have put in the hours required to earn that trust.

As a heroimm, you might want to do nothing but code, but your 600 or so hour investment in a character is not a long enough period for them to evaluate your contributions as an IMM (rather than as a player). That privilege goes to IMMs who have shown their willingness to write/create areas, interact with mortals, run an established religion, etc. Our coders have put in that time and then some.

As we progress through immhood, we get greater and greater responsibilities, and I would argue that the ultimate responsibility (outside of having the box at your house) is to tinker with the mechanics that make CF the great game that it is.

Also, a prerequisite for working on CF code is knowing enough about writing a couple of areas, statting mobs and items, etc.; all of which you learn as you go.

>>As I understand it, granting someone access to the CF code is only given to those who have earned not only the trust of the IMPS, but also have put in the hours required to earn that trust.

As a heroimm, you might want to do nothing but code, but your 600 or so hour investment in a character is not a long enough period for them to evaluate your contributions as an IMM (rather than as a player). That privilege goes to IMMs who have shown their willingness to write/create areas, interact with mortals, run an established religion, etc. Our coders have put in that time and then some.<<

Think of it as a job (albeit one that you're volunteering for). If I were hired as a coder for a job, I'd expect some access to the code, whether or not it's the master code. Seeing Zulg's list of things on "long term", there are enough projects which are peripheral enough to not give the coder a sense of what lies at the core. You'd have to know basic mechanics of muds, which skills are tied to which classes, where the pointers are pointing, how structs are used, inheritance, prototypes, etc, but that should be basic knowledge anyway.

If I say that I'm wanting to do nothing but code and you make me write flowery area descriptions, something that isn't my strong suit, you're basically Homer Simpson as mayor handing out the jobs he wants you to have, regardless of your expertise. A "600 hour investment in a character" is not enough for the imms to trust you? That is ridiculous. That's the equivalent of about four months if you put in a 40 hour work week; longer than most trial periods for any new job.

>> Also, a prerequisite for working on CF code is knowing enough about writing a couple of areas, statting mobs and items, etc.; all of which you learn as you go.<<

Forgive me, but the two are not one and the same. If you've been writing areas, go download a MUD shell and look at the code. It will be completely foreign to you if you've never encountered the C programming language before.

What you're hearing from me is probably "You're doing things wrong and you should do it my way." What I'm actually trying to say is that CF could be more awesome with the ability to hire on help with specific skillsets in mind. Having been friends with some people that heroimmed and gotten feedback, I can tell you that it sounds incredibly frustrating and it keeps me from wanting to even attempt applying because of the hoops I'd have to jump through just to do something I'd a) love to do, and b) do for free. But it's your game. I don't have to play.

>>>As I understand it, granting someone access to the CF code
>is only given to those who have earned not only the trust of
>the IMPS, but also have put in the hours required to earn that
>trust.
>
>As a heroimm, you might want to do nothing but code, but your
>600 or so hour investment in a character is not a long enough
>period for them to evaluate your contributions as an IMM
>(rather than as a player). That privilege goes to IMMs who
>have shown their willingness to write/create areas, interact
>with mortals, run an established religion, etc. Our coders
>have put in that time and then some.<<
>
>Think of it as a job (albeit one that you're volunteering
>for). If I were hired as a coder for a job, I'd expect some
>access to the code, whether or not it's the master code.
>Seeing Zulg's list of things on "long term", there are enough
>projects which are peripheral enough to not give the coder a
>sense of what lies at the core. You'd have to know basic
>mechanics of muds, which skills are tied to which classes,
>where the pointers are pointing, how structs are used,
>inheritance, prototypes, etc, but that should be basic
>knowledge anyway.
>
>If I say that I'm wanting to do nothing but code and you make
>me write flowery area descriptions, something that isn't my
>strong suit, you're basically Homer Simpson as mayor handing
>out the jobs he wants you to have, regardless of your
>expertise. A "600 hour investment in a character" is not
>enough for the imms to trust you? That is ridiculous. That's
>the equivalent of about four months if you put in a 40 hour
>work week; longer than most trial periods for any new job.

That's why I said "character" instead of "immortal." I'm sure you can think of some people who play a lot of characters that you wouldn't trust with CF code. To think otherwise is naivete. As a heroimm, you are a newb again. Whatever you know about playing mortals might help, but you are starting over at level (fifty) one.

Put 600 hours in as an immortal, and you're getting somewhere.

>>> Also, a prerequisite for working on CF code is knowing
>enough about writing a couple of areas, statting mobs and
>items, etc.; all of which you learn as you go.<<
>
>Forgive me, but the two are not one and the same. If you've
>been writing areas, go download a MUD shell and look at the
>code. It will be completely foreign to you if you've never
>encountered the C programming language before.

Point taken, but I still maintain that knowing and experiencing the amount of effort that goes into writing one area is a significant requisite to code for _CF_.

>What you're hearing from me is probably "You're doing things
>wrong and you should do it my way." What I'm actually trying
>to say is that CF could be more awesome with the ability to
>hire on help with specific skillsets in mind. Having been
>friends with some people that heroimmed and gotten feedback, I
>can tell you that it sounds incredibly frustrating and it
>keeps me from wanting to even attempt applying because of the
>hoops I'd have to jump through just to do something I'd a)
>love to do, and b) do for free. But it's your game. I don't
>have to play.

Your first assumption is incorrect. I agree with your second. A heroimm just needs to be able to put in the time and effort to be given such a big responsibility as coding.

Just my 2 cents on the matter...

Don't think in terms of 600 hours invested in a character.
think of it as the imms evaluating a player who has invested
(in some cases) years playing. how you behaved with past
characters, what stupid things you did. :)

So maybe taking a while to feel you out as an imm isn't
such a long time now? Just put it in perspective.

Imagine working construction for 5 years and then applying
for a job in a law office, even if you had an appropriate
degree you've still been working at other things for a while
they'll put you in the mail room or something, sure you can
eventually work your way up since you have the degree and
all. Maybe a poor example but I just got up.

Maybe some fantasy rpg terms now? A warrior who comes into the
lands seeking service at the castle. Sure his deeds of great reknown
are known to all the land, but the kings personal body guard? guarding
the treasure vault? Ahhh... no I don't think so... He'll have to
earn that sort of trust after he is walking the battlements on guard
duty at 3 in the morning for a while. Breaking up bar fights within
the city... He won't be leading the left wing of the army in battle
he'll be just another grunt at first.

I dunno if that gets across the perspective thing well, I'll have to re-read it later after some coffee. :) I hope so.

I was totally going to ask the same kind of question. Would love to see some more religions for other options on Empowered Characters.... But agreed, I think the IMMStaff is doing a bang up job up there.

nt

Yeah well I'm not seeing it? When was the last time we got a new religion that wasn't a reImm? years?