So I take a look at the cabal wars today and see this

CABAL WARS
Members Apps Influence
FORTRESS 24 18 100%
OUTLANDER 23 11 96 %
BATTLE 26 13 100%
EMPIRE 28 7 80 %
SCION 3 11 50 %
NEXUS 22 5 64 %
TRIBUNAL 28 2 94 %

Now for the most part, I would say pretty normal. But the scion numbers, does anyone not see a problem with that? I know immortals mostly let mortal leaders do their things, and they have been pretty solid about enforcing a hard cap on how many can be in a cabal at any given time. But 3 memebers? I have to think at some point that thats detrimental to peoples fun. I find it hard to believe that out of the 11 players trying to have a good time and play a scion, the chancellor can't pick some scions and let them play the game and enjoy the cabal of their choice.

Now I know the governing immortal of scion just had a baby and has been for the most part pre occupied, but is there not one immortal that can appoint an advisor to induct? Or that can maybe nudge the chancellor that cockblocking everybody but 2 other players from the cabal is detrimental as a whole to others enjoyment? After all, its a game. I shouldn't have to wait 3 real time months to play a cabal I want to play because the leader is keeping the numbers down to himself and a buddy.

Anyone else really seeing an issue here? I know scion was always the elite low number cabal, but its always been at least 10-14 members. And before the silly member cap scion used to be packed. My old scions ran around with 6-7 scions online at a time sometimes.

I don't think you are being fair to the current chancellor.

He all but came looking for me after I hit 30 pks with my assassin. He might have limited login times, and as a transmuter his visibility is low, but my induction was painless.

But numbers seem to indicate he is not doing a very good job. If it has something to to with the new area, fine, do some sort of global announcement. I can't remember the last time a major area explore went in without some sort of announcement. It's just hard for me to see a good reason for an empty cabal when this mud is already suffering from low players. Let people have their chance and fun. I know my motivation to play my character is somewhat sapped because the leader of the cabal I choose wants to keep it empty. And it's been empty for a LONG time, this isn't a new development.

instead of scion applicant?

Can you honestly say you are not a scion applicant? If so, I would argue you should declare that.

that time period suggests that it is more then just missed opportunity. It also shows that our beloved administrators are doing a poor job of administrating.

If the people who run the show don't have their act together it is not reasonable to expect the person they have delegated part of that responsibility to be any better then they are when they have fewer tools to accomplish the same task.

I've been watching Scion as well for the past few months and am sensitive to complaints about poor administration. I'm not going to comment on active characters in detail.

Of the 10 current Scion applicants, 8 either don't play their character (not logging in in the past 2 weeks) or haven't been a pledge for longer than 5 character hours. None of the current applicants have prayed. Only a couple ever wrote notes to Scion introducing themselves, and none of them within the last month. I (or someone else) has at least given an interview to everyone that has prayed in the past 5 months for Scion induct. There's one character that has been an applicant for over a month that I want to talk to (despite him never seeking non-Chancellor interaction) but he's been logging off every time I get to it.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that our beloved players put at least a little bit of effort into it if they want to join what is considered the elite cabal in the game. It's easy enough to get inducted into every other cabal.


Edited to add: The difference in applicant numbers is because one of those 11 was a new applicant that wrote a note to the cabal and was inducted by a leader shortly afterward.

I'm not involved in this discussion at all, but this is the kind of answer that I love getting from imms.

You smacked down any misconception, and you told us what was actually going on behind the scenes. Kudos to you sir. Kudos.

I would say that this post pretty much sums up the situation pretty well. We as players have no way to come by this sort of behind the scenes information. Numbers can be extremely misleading sometimes, as you have just proven. And when you have a imm like yourself that can take 5 minutes to shed some clarity on sitation from an immortals point of view, it really helps the people that are going about the whole thing the wrong way.

More immortal/player communication makes everything run smoother. Thanks for going the extra mile, its definately noticed around here.

As a player I don't think its worth wasting my time to follow through on an application if there is little to no actual administration in place to process me. And no reason to believe that administration is going to be there.


now why would a player think that would be the case?



It is not reasonable for 1-5 part time volunteers to be responsible for accomodating the playing habbits of 50-100. It will be impossible for you to meet the needs of more then a fraction of that group under the current system even if you were crazy good. The only way to fix the system is to change it, trying harder is not a solution.

I appreciate your edit, because I had originally decided to just not respond to this.

In a cabal with a mortal leader, what changes do you think need to be made to the cabal system to accommodate those that want to play but aren't applying, or pledging and not doing anything else?

set a standard. Make that standard public so you can be held accountable to it. Then actually do it.

I am not trying to say that you are not trying your hardest but this is one of those things like writing down what you are going to do at work the next day, you will get better performance.



Yes this means that "standards" might fall for short stretches of time.


Here are some ideas for standards

1.) Minimum Cabal Membership number
2.) The cabal will never be without any mortal leader for more then seven days.
3.) A vacant leadership position will be filled within fourteen days.
4.) A leader that fails to show up for more than fourteen days loses leadership automatically

now the reason for these specific standards is that they encourage people to join the cabal and to seek leadership. It does mean that at times there will be lower quality in there but it also lets people know that these positions will actually be filled so its worth peoples time to actually compete for them. You could also always call people interim leaders if you are settling and replace them when appropriate.


for every cabal other then scion induction should be automated in some form but having these standards for all cabals and have them published would be fantastic.

You forgot to include

5) A sub-par leader will be held accountable and replaced within 21 days.

CF tends to cater to leaders that decide logging in twice a week is sufficient to lead the cabal when those guys should simply be demoted to a step down (or offer to do so if they are smart and courteous once they get busy for extended periods.)

Burnout or infants really shouldn't be an excuse to blow off a leader position for a month plus with 3 hour logins once or twice a week. You really should be on every other day during the 8-12 CST block of time as the only mortal leader in the cabal. If you can do at least that, then you can easily claim that applicants aren't stepping up via a private note to that applicant.

Granted, you have to make allowances for international players, but that's what notes, lists of accomplishments and in some cases noting to the Archmage (cabal imms) to induct X next time he is seen once you've made a decision. Interviews can be conducted via notes if necessary, and then especially in evil cabals you can boot them back out shortly after if they fail/#### up/perform atrociously in such a fashion as to piss other players off.

either the cabal is suceeding or it isn't.

right now it isn't

often times it isn't

This is not limited to just this cabal or even to just cabal inductiion.

As an american I believe people in leadership roles have a responsibility to serve their consituents. Effort amounts to nothing the only thing that really matters is end results. The best way they can do that is to create concrete standards. Once you have a standard you can then judge performance and tweak the standard as need be but without a standard there is no benchmark or point of reference to say if you are doing a good or bad job.

The imms have of course blasted the idea of making temporary leaders and such in the past but I feel that immortal involvement is like the social security issue of CF. Sure back when the system was created it worked and it was all dandy but now the foundation that was built on has fundamentally changed. Its a tough sell to remove control/secrecy from the hands of the administrator but it is the ONLY and I repeat ONLY way to address the root cause of the problems (the ratio of administrators to administratees is unbalanced).

I got invited to apply by the scions (with a strong suggestion that I would be successful), but ultimately chose not to because I've played multiple scions since playing certain other cabals.

Oh, and I don't hve lots of pk's. (I have about 3.) However, I'm pretty sure they concluded that I was able to pk and knew my stuff in general.

Maybe low scion numbers and a new area in area explore called plane of shadow are related

> time

It is 12 o'clock AM, Day of the Sun
27th of the Month of the Sun.
The year is 1713.
Day and night are meaningless here.
There is no moon in this place.

heh