Can we possibly find a way to incorporate an edge that allows a PC to have a way to combat quicksand? It's difficult for any warrior/rogue type in-game right now to deal with powerhouse invokers, worse even, is that any warrior is normally toting around weak flight that is dispelled instantly. Tack on top of this the struggle villagers need to go through when they pop into quicksand, and i'd say that if a quicksand edge was available right now, i'd take it over any other edge.

My thought is possibly make it so that there's a check to see if you start sinking at all, or if you can just stand in the spot, that or make it so that you can sink, and take the lag, but make it so that chances to flee are much better then what they are at present. It just seems a bit absurd to give these guys that can blast 3-400 hp in one shot off lvl 42 pc's with 600 base hp an outlet to solidly trap opponents everytime. I'm just really, really tired of seeing quicksand everywhere, falling into traps, and being dead because I had 900 hp wasted in the span of two combat rounds where quicksand snagged me.

That or plz get an edge to let people see Improved Invis... as it stands right now, it seems VERY FEW edges are catered in anyway to deal with invokers.

I can sympathize with this and it's one reason why I would not roll a non-flying Rager unless it was a bard. Even one failed attempt to escape quicksand drives me raving mad.

The thing about Rager builds is you have to think these things through before rolling the character and making build decisions. Another thing to think through is legacies. You don't just want to avoid quicksand, you want to kill the invoker. I can tell you that while Malakhi had no issues surviving invokers, I did have issues killing ABS/stoneskin invokers with shield of waves - they'd just flee/word whenever in danger or in some cases, at the first sign it would not be a 4-round victory for them. So if you only have one means of lagging, and it's countered by an invoker shield, you should think about the landslide legacy if you want to reliably kill ABS/stoneskin invokers.

The other thing about Ragers is that they truly are fish in the barrel with respect to a bunch of "cheap" tactics (e.g., rot, assassinate, quicksand .. the list goes on). You have to recognize this when you're playing a rager and pay extra attention to avoiding these tactics far above and beyond what other characters do. There are very, very, very few players skilled enough and challenge seeking enough that will avoid the easy Rager targets with these tactics (you can count these guys on one hand).

If you're a non-rager, well, quaff fly and avoid fighting the invoker in quicksand. Rank to within 5 levels of the invoker so you can at least see the guy. An invoker shouldn't kill you unless it's a gank, opportune moment, raid, or the invoker is gutsy enough to stick around near death and you think you might kill him first.

You can build your character to avoid certain situations but you can't build your character to avoid them all.

Also, you have no way of knowing at character creation who your biggest problem enemies are. You could build your character to kill invokers and there might not be any invokers to kill by the time you hero. Obviously, the build will help in other situations but it could also leave you vulnerable to others (probably the ones your facing because there are no invokers to kill!! At least that's my luck).

If you insist on playing ragers and hate quicksand that much, you can always play arials or cloud giants. It's not foolproof, but it's a leg up.

Tips:
- Be level 51
- Gear for save vs. spell
- Actively work towards thickening the veil (marginal, perhaps)
- Communicate: know where quicksand, vortex, pits, etc. are via scouts and whatnot
- Certain builds are inherently better at things like pausing combat, stopping casters, etc. Consider perma fly next time (Not helpful for your current, obviously)

Here's the thing... "It just seems a bit absurd to give these guys that can blast 3-400 hp in one shot off lvl 42 pc's with 600 base hp an outlet to solidly trap opponents everytime"

An invoker can't "trap" anyone -every time-. He can trap YOU, maybe. But the flip side is also true... a berserker whip spec can entwine another warrior or rogue, for example, and drop 1k HP in a round with the RNG behind him. It's not a perfect comparison, I realize, but the point is that the crux of PK mechanics is the permutations of builds. Some builds shrug off the things that are eating you up, while other builds probably feel helpless against you. It's all about leveraging whatever skills, tactics, etc. you can against the builds that are tough for you and, at a higher level, choosing your character builds based on your play style and tolerance for scenarios like these.

I, for example, will never play a necromancer because I know there are just too many things about being a high level necro that I won't like.

When you play a (rager) berserker, for example, you just have to go into it knowing certain things will suck. Randomly dealing 5x the damage isn't one of those things :P

Rager Warriors are powerful up to 40 then they hit the lower ranges of hero mages who's spells with spellcraft rip through them. You have got to make the mad dash to Hero as quick as possible.

The quicksand thing is nothing new and old villagers have been combating it for years. The rank advantage of hero mages over rank 42 rager warriors is nothing new either. Volkov is a good voker but not 'all that' so get ranking and then get all in his face!

-----Abernyte

I suggest you just make sure to get to hero ASAP. Levels 42-47 are by far the toughest ones to handle as a warrior. Gets much easier after that when you can see the invoker and save against his spells.

Quicksand + pit = even worse.

There are already plenty of ways to deal with quicksand.

Also, Outcry of Steel is good for this.

So is stacking enough spell save and/or DR and/or resistances that an invoker doesn't have a prayer of blowing through you in two rounds.

I can't remember any period in the last several years in which there was legitimately more than one powerhouse invoker at a time, and even "powerhouse" numbers for an invoker tend to pale to most other classes. Is that not the case now?

I would not call Rhone a powerhouse, and really not Volkov either, and I don't think I have seen any other hero invokers right now. Neither of them are powerhouses, even if they can both take down a villager with ease, that's a narrow subset of the players.

That Volkov can kill villagers easily is not all that impressive, and really, all he has is quicksand and pits for that. Solo invokers really have no way to keep people in place, so most people have no trouble escaping them when the fight is one sided. It might just be he targets villagers because they're the easiest people he can kill with something as simple as quicksand.

why not add it? I mean, there's anti-be-moved, anti-rot, anti-assassinate (sorta), anti-summon, so on and so on. If someone wants to spend enough edge points on anti-quicksand vs. something else, why not accomodate?

Anyways, just my 2c.