Are there things you can look at that would give you observation at a given level, but not at some higher level?

Obviously exploration xp is that way; I'm curious if observation works the same way.

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n/t

Does it go by the level range shown by the "areas" command, or are observation/exploration xp unrelated to that?

>Does it go by the level range shown by the "areas" command,
>or are observation/exploration xp unrelated to that?

It is not strictly tied to that, no.

..what's the logic behind that? I can understand that it's more difficult to explore certain areas earlier, but that doesn't change anything from a game dynamic view does it? I like to shoot up to hero to get involved in cabal wars as quickly as possible and then explore when there's nothing going on. Does that means I'm going to have a hard time getting observation xp?

Ultimately, I'm worried that in order to get the edges that everyone else seems to know how to get, I'm going to have to explore, participate in commerce, look at room descriptions, when there's other more exciting things to do. Will I be able to max out on edges by just doing every day stuff and exploring on the side?

-thinnie

I've probably had characters with the highest overall edgepoint totals. When they first went in, chars were given edgepoints retroactively, and they were probably higher than folks who earn them now because of it. I was playing Hunsobo at the time and had a gigantic amount of edgepoints. And then earned more as I continued to play.

That said, there were still probably 10 or so edges I could have gotten good, solid use out of. Maybe more.

So in the end, do what makes you happy. If you think that having a lot of explore/obs exp to get 3-4 more edges once you are at hero will do so, do that. If you'd rather get in the mix at hero right away, do that.

Edited to add:
Reasoning behind the obs/explore exp going down as you level up is risk v. reward, mostly. There's no reason a level 25 guy should get the same amount of obs/explore xp for exploring kobold warrens that a level 5 guy should.

..you guys sit behind the curtain, so I don't know the reality behind it all, but from my perspective, edges seem like a pretty big deal. Not to the point of legacies, but still pretty significant. That being the case, it seems like this is a system that is just asking to be "gamed". People find out through trial and error what the best things to do prior to certain levels is and then do them with each and every character they have. This to me isn't really adding anything to the game, but just giving another advantage to players who are that anal in getting every advantage they can get. How does observing/exploring the same area with each and every character you have add to the game and why give it such importance?

Also, when did this shift occur where rewards became so significant such as extra legacies in role contests? I remember people were lucky to even get a title or even rarer to get tattoo'd. The rarity actually meant that it was a huge deal to see a title/tat, but everyone knew if you kicked ass, you did it just like every other race-class-cabal person such as yourself. Nowadays, I can't tell if someone's kicking ass of their own merits or if they have some crazy extra legacy/slew of edges to prop themselves up.

-thinnie

>> edges seem like a pretty big deal. Not to the point of legacies, but still pretty significant

People covet edges them because they exist and can be had, and there is always room for more of them. But they're not a big deal really, more cute than powerful.. dunno powerwise, 10 edges on a legacy maybe? 15?

..ignore the majority of my post =) I thought there were some edges that really gave players some juice, but if that isn't the case then I guess the system works as intended. A bit of extra perks for exploring that can be fun but aren't pk game changers.

I think for a given character there can be a couple really good edges that might change your strategy a bit, but... most characters aren't going to have a hard time affording a couple edges.

.

Thanks! It is. I'm going to try to be around at least a little bit again.

>>> edges seem like a pretty big deal. Not to the point of
>legacies, but still pretty significant
>
>People covet edges them because they exist and can be had, and
>there is always room for more of them. But they're not a big
>deal really, more cute than powerful.. dunno powerwise, 10
>edges on a legacy maybe? 15?
>
>
>
From a conjurer perspective, edges aren't cute. They're necessary. Want to run around with hooded ice devils? If you don't have the correct edges you will often kill yourself trying.

Want to use your familiar in pvp? You need edges or people might one-round it.

To me, conjurers need edges not to lose con. Is that still cute?

>>Want to use your familiar in pvp? You need edges or people
>might one-round it.

I 100% guarantee that however much difference you think the edge makes in this case, it's a lot less than that.

If you power to hero, you'll probably get more imm attention. If you power into cabal battle range, you may get more pks.

Both of those count for edge points, and imm exp counts for a lot.

Also, edges are not going to be the reason someone is kicking your ass, normally. Very few edges make that significant a difference, and those that do, you can tell are acting.

My understanding was that there is a cap on the amount of edge points you can get from observation/exploration xp, and that people frequently run up against that cap. Is that not accurate?

What I would like to avoid is a situation where I feel obligated to spend "observation/exploration" time at every phase of a character's life. It would be much more "freeing" if I knew that skipping it at the lower levels I wasn't effectively hamstringing my character for the rest of its existence.

I don't know/remember the cap, and I'm not 100% certain there is one, but I do believe there is a cap on the number of edgepoints you can earn from observation and exploration.

From a character of yours (generally long-lived), I'd say you definitely wouldn't be hamstrung (long term) by not exploring until hero-ish range. I say that because you generally have solid RP and PK, and you're likely to eventually get up to the obs/explore edgepoint cap by going to area explores and such.

..that definitely makes me feel better. I'm not a big explorer, but I'll definitely do so when things are quiet. How does the solid RP and PK factor in? Is that part of the equation or is it how Immortals decide to give out Imm xp?

-thinnie

Certain PK goals net you edgepoints.

RP is generally beneficial in a few ways:
1. More likely to get immxp "randomly".
2. More likely to get leadership positions, which often leads to (1).
3. Makes you enjoy the character more, and thereby last longer, which can net you edgepoints when you hit certain age goals. And a longer-lived character is more likely to see (1).

You won't get imm exp "fairly" at a character level. It's only when you start looking at lots of characters that it averages out.

i.e. Some of your characters will probably get underrewarded, but others will probably get overrewarded.

For imms: I'd quite like to see characters rewarded for taking risks (other than just being suicidal). At present, rewards often seem to be linked more to the absolute level of opposition they go up against, but that's not really a good measure of risk or achievement when you take preps into the equation.

You may see a history comment that says someone got rewarded for retrieving against 3 in range, but that doesn't (generally) happen if that character is going to have zero problem with those three. It is more along the lines of retrieving against 3 that had a very good chance of absolutely smoking him. (for example)

The guy who retrieves against one person who outmatches him rarely gets a comment, even if he comes close to dying repeatedly.

Basically I'm thinking about this sort of thing:
If an unprepped newb (with newbie quality gear) manages to retrieve against a vet with good gear, I think the newb deserves something for it.

And how do you propose we tell newb from vet?

Their poor choice of gear.
Their many mob deaths in well known areas that vets are unlikely to die in.
A seriously poor pk record.
A relatively low amount of obs/explore exp (unless coupled with a high amount of deaths in explore areas that are not really risky to vets (e.g. Organia -- other than the ranking & gearing bits).
A lack of basic preps (e.g. enlarge, flight, reduce).

Generally though, you must be able to tell whether someone's a newb quite quickly? I know I get a sense within a very short time and it tends to prove accurate.

If you get it wrong, the worst thing that happens is that someone who satisfies many of the above (and thus gets whupped most of the time) becomes slightly less vulnerable to being whupped all the time.

They are known to ask genuine newb stuff on the newb channel (as opposed to asking about legacies in order to optimise a build etc.).

I wasn't going to say much on Imm exp and the like. But I really wanted to put a bit of perspective on how imperfect it is. After playing my Shifter Captain, I got a good grasp on this.

For a long time I was a bit miffed about Imm Exp. I got, what I thought, was a good deal of Immterraction with Kourin. I had religious stuff, I had cabal stuff. I got Leadered. I got deckhanded. I had what I thought was OK RP. I deleted Kourin with a grand total of 500 IMM exp from a role. I sat there and watched as Alyx, granted a good PK-er, got IMM exp for killing me in a bloodthirst as I chased him to the village, but never once did I get anything like that, even when retrieving against what I percieved to be difficult odds, never really holding back in hunting and such.

Now fast forward to my next character, a Pally. By 80 Hours I had ~2900 Imm Exp.

What did I learn from this? The IMMs are people. They can't watch you all the time and don't expect to get any rewards. When they come, cool, but play the game for you. I've been told that many many times. not so long ago, I had a blow up about a role that I wrote and the Imm exp for it. It took me this long to learn that lesson.

That is really the best advice anyone has ever gotten in playing CF.
Don't complain about others, or what they get or what they do. Just find a way to enjoy CF for yourself. I find Imms almost never do anything to interfere with a players enjoyment of the game, and usually only look for ways to enhance it.

Granted, I enjoy immteractions mainly because Imms are people that have insanely awesome RP most of the time. Ysaloerye's interactions with my newb paladin may well be the reason I still play CF at all, if only cause she showed me how fun the pure RP side of CF could be.

You can't play for imm interactions or imm love, but when it happens, it tends to be great. I've yet to have a bad interaction with an Imm. Even when an imm looks at my char and are saying to themself this guy is a moron, they still let me have my fun being a moron.

Thendrell had 3 virtues, a title, got to be the voice of the paragon for about 5 hours and somewhere around 11K imm xp. And really, the char was created thinking I would never even get empowered. Just shows you can never predict what will happen with a char, the only way to know is to play them out and have fun along the way.

one of my chars was there for your last death.... You really shaped a bunch of how I played....