So there was another in a long line of complaints posted about how deathblow/bloodthirst is overpowered and it got me to thinking about why this argument will forever be waged.

When I look at the landscape of CF cabal powers, preps, and built in class buffs what I see is a severe inbalance between defensive abilities and offensive abilities. I believe this severe shortage of offensive boosts makes the few that exist really stick out.

I mean the number of diffferent preps and cabal powers out there that increase survivability are endless, the ones to boost offensive output are super rare.

I think it would be nice to see a higher degree of avialable options outside of gear to boost offensive output, a really great tool would maybe be to make offensive and defensive boosts mutually exclusive. Maybe a buff that boosts damage by 25% but also increaes the damage you take by 25%. Or a haste like affect to increase number of attacks that prevents you from using stoneskin or protection. Or maybe some buffs that make you randomly shoot flamestrikes in combat. More offensive options would just be cool.

I rarely found a single fight I had to stay in against berserkers. Granted I loved to fight them, but DB with only shield and invoker shields isn't that bad... being an elf with less than 800hp 99% of the time too

I could have swore there was...

There is no argument here. DB is the way it is because its a kill or die skill. Outside of battle you have every prep in the game to use (class/spell/commune/etc..) If you go into the fight unprepared get ready to run back to your corpse. If you go in prepared read the post about Battle people bitching that they need more to help them.

I play battle because i dont know crap about prepping. (same as most who do) and i'm all for a revamp of Battle powers. There are 3 paths in Battle but only 1 skill that sets them apart. deathblow / field dress / critical hit

All other cabals have multiple skills/abilities + preps from others in the cabal. So again there is no argument here. Flee q return is THE! most powerful prep you can have, learn to use it.

And wheres the complaints about Defenders or Scouts????? oh there are none thats right people like ganging down those guys because they dont have a fight turning skill when being bashed by 3 people who are black auraed.

oh yea and about offense stuff...get prog gear theres alot.

>
>And wheres the complaints about Defenders or Scouts????? oh
>there are none thats right people like ganging down those guys
>because they dont have a fight turning skill when being bashed
>by 3 people who are black auraed.

Defenders are nasty when played on the right build, especially when it comes to raiding / retrieving.

Scouts are niche, but nice. Scout bards can be very, very annoying, for example.

>oh yea and about offense stuff...get prog gear theres alot.

Other than prayer beads against evils, I don't think any of the progged gear really changes fights much in terms of damage dealt. The exception being a handful of items that rarely see the light of day (but happen to be circulating now). Stuff like eagle-inscribed is pretty awesome, but given it's rarity and how often it's hoarded, it's silly to say "Oh well just go get that stuff." like you would a prep.

>Defenders are nasty when played on the right build, especially
>when it comes to raiding / retrieving.

Defenders are great for long, protracted fights like that. But that doesn't really "scare" me the same way deathblow + thirst do. I can attack a defender, realize that I'm not going to kill him, then flee with relative safety. It's harder to do that with a berserker since they have the potential to pump out such massive amounts of damage. There is very little margin for error.

In saying this I'm not necessarily bemoaning berserker powers; I'm just saying that defenders and scouts aren't "nasty" in the same way.

>Other than prayer beads against evils, I don't think any of
>the progged gear really changes fights much in terms of damage
>dealt.

Blademaster's gloves. Swordmaster's gloves. Defiance. Thunderlance. Heartseeker. Strange bracers. Spike-toed boots (on an assassin). Anazu (since you can't damage something you can't see). Amulets of Dragonkind. Staff of striking.

Sure, most of these don't approach the level of deathblow. But they're hardly insignificant.

Things that help you to decrease your enemies HP (heck even their stats) just don't exist in the game in prep form. Frenzy is really the only general offensive boost you can get in prep form of even minor value. There are a couple of cabal powers that give a little dam boost (zeal, nightfirst, blade of the codex) and there are a couple of pieces of gear that prog for direct damage or give haste but those items are so rare that its reasonable to play sveral characters and never see them either used against you or in your own inventory.

On the defensive side you are simply crazy to not have fly to protect you from flight, teleport and word to move you across great distances, stone skin, protection, ABS, etc.

Defensive preps and powers are so prevalent that you would have to be a noob not to be able to scrap together a 20% dam redux in virtually every single fight but the options to increase your damage output by even 10% just don't exist outside of gear.

You have define what preps are for this though. Are preps only pills potions? Do they include talismans scrolls? Does prepping involve knowing your enemy and exploiting a vuln if they have one?

You can get things like enlarge/reduce, giant strength, dragon strength, haste frenzy and berserk, some of those fairly easily. Not sure what you want to be able to get? More things to just boost dam roll? I think people can put out insane enough damage already, with maybe the exception of a healer/shaman and defense shifter what class can't take off maybe 400 hp in a round of combat against an unprepped foe by using one skill?

Warriors have huge melee and a spec move.
Assassins can owaza and have strong melee. Or just assassinate anyone.
Thieves have backstab.
Rangers have ambush.
Bards can sing apocalyptic
Invokers can cast one spell.
Transmuters can disrupt.
Necromancers maybe not, except the whole PWK thing which kills you no matter how prepped you are.
AP's have limitless potential.
Orcs can savage and have strong melee.
Druids can do thorns or fire seeds or any of those other things.
Conjurers are insane enough with their pets.
Paladins can spam wrath or do moves depending on dedication.

Point being Every class has the ability to kill someone who is unprepped in a very short time.

Yes, there are not a lot of things in general that boost offensive performance, but really is it needed? Look at what damage you can do to an unprepped person at the hero levels. Pillar of lightning. A flurry. A disruption. Hell, look at what an alligator does just in normal damage terms.

Defensive preps are what make fights last more then 4 or 5 rounds and actually require people to use a little more strategy then just I can bash him twice and win because I hit like a freaking truck (which already exists anyway and is effective as hell at times) or walk up and pillar an arial to kill them.

20% dam redux. If I'm taking 200 hp a round in damage, which is fairly common if not low I'd say, 20% means I'm still getting beaten down pretty hard I'd say. 160 a round. Think of it this way, the more defense you have the longer you can fight, so the more damage you can put out. I rather like fights that are a bit longer rather then having them be quicker because everyone now just deals more damage. We all know exactly what any class can do without offensive boosts, which is why we prep. Because otherwise we die.

With my elf bard, warriors terrified me because anyone of them that sees me and wanted to kill me can enlarge, wield two iron weapons (god forbid axes), and if they bash me first and all I have is anthem, I was dead probably before I realized I should put up some preps. Where as with anthem, haste, aura, shield stoneskin, protection I could fight them and out melee them (maybe even get one or two songs off) since I would likely be permalagged by bashes anyway. If they were not prepped themselves. If they were, I still died, it just took longer for them to kill me.

Characters don't need more offense.
Villagers I'd say have a hard time because you take the head and they are people with nothing more then gear, unless they have a bard. When they have their powers, they still get beaten down hard lots of times. I rather like the thrill of not knowing, maybe he could one round me at anytime with a pair of deathblows. Otherwise fighting ragers would be an absolute joke if you just take your time and use a little bit of thinking.

>
>Blademaster's gloves. Swordmaster's gloves. Defiance.
>Thunderlance. Heartseeker. Strange bracers. Spike-toed
>boots (on an assassin). Anazu (since you can't damage
>something you can't see). Amulets of Dragonkind. Staff of
>striking.
>
>Sure, most of these don't approach the level of deathblow.
>But they're hardly insignificant.

Fair enough, but I just don't find myself losing fights to these things nearly as often or by the same margin deathblow can lose one a fight.

And FWIW, I don't mind any of those items. They can be disarmed, shattered, deneted, looted, etc. In many cases, deathblow can't be (kinda) permanently disabled like that.

PS: I don't think deathblow is bad, I just think most of the arguments for why it should go away / be toned down are valid justifications for why I simply refuse to fight against it 99% of the time.

You get hit for a graze.

Rager flees to destructor.

Rager won. You spend 20mins to an hour getting your preps back, they lol.

The flip side to this is that if you have enough firepower, running to the destructor doesn't save him. You just follow him in and finish the job. Empire does this frequently.

He gets "preps on a stick" in exchange for giving up "the ability to teleport and change size". You have to spend time to achieve the same level of buffness but retain "the ability easily escape unwinnable situations."

I've done it as a Scion, Empire and Outlander, more than once.

Classes used: assassin, warrior, transmuter, anti-paladin and a thief!

DB at hero isn't OP in my eyes, at lvl 26-40 it feels insane though... Much harder to prep against big DBs in the mid-ranks since barrier is SO much harder to come by for mage classes and stoneskin and other preps are harder too due to a somewhat reduced income rate and killability rate of mobs.