I think I'm ####-terrible at being evil. I don't really like being an ass to people if I can help it (although I love looting shiny gearses). My attempts at it aren't even as comically over-the-top as "Richard" Dastardly or Snidely Whiplash (although that gives me a great role idea), and they tend to be 2-dimensional: I killed you because I wanted your stuff/because I'm Imperial/I'm Sciony/I'm Scaraby/I'm just mean/etc. Does it need to be any more complicated than that? I'm convinced that it can and should be.

How do you *get into* being evil? Can you point me to the evil characters that most impressed you, felt TRULY evil, and why?

For instance... I ran into Malakhi a few times in-game and, for being evil, he was a pretty nice and respectful guy. Sure, evil can be super-honorable and respectful... but then what's making them EVIL? Jindicho seemed to be pretty nice to anyone who wasn't a complete noob idiot (no offense, Sammy). He was willing to kill lots of people, though. Daurwyn's evils... the few I've run into are extremely respectful. These are some of the evils that have stood out to me as people who seek interaction with others. I've run into lots of other evils who seemed a bit "eviler", but weren't really open for interaction (that I could/wanted to get out of them, anyway). Oppose these guys with a super-multikilling, super-looting Zubei. I'd rather play with the first three. No question whatsoever.

Not attacking these three players, since I respect them and their characters TONS (well, except for Sam :3 j/k): but are they EVIL to you? Seems to me such a broad respect for others would put you far closer to neutral align. However, I, too, have a hard time verbally/actually ####ting on everyone who isn't immediately aligned with/useful to me. How do you deal with allies when there's drama, when there's friction, when they or you screw up? I have a hard time smacking down an ally, or blaming it all on them and being convincing (to them or myself), much less KILL them.

Is it a question of motivation? Is it something essential and intrinsic to a char? Does it have to be anything more than CF-defined-ethics-red-aura actions? How do you get away from "team evil, black hat" mentality, be a cruel bastard to your friends and foes alike, still enjoy your character, and get anything done in-game? Help me figure out evil.

(Also, to whoever fixed or restored my posting privileges, thanks VERY much!)

Evil doesn't equal "rude".

Evil also doesn't necessarily equal "be a cruel bastard to your friends". Or, at least, to whatever pawns you happen to be using at a given time. Be a cruel bastard to everyone and you'll find yourself completely alone, and probably booted your cabal.

No, not necessarily either of those things. But does it demand at least something like it in CF? From SOME evil chars? Shouldn't evil characters have a difficult time working together, aside from booting incompetents and noobs from Scion, or demoting/politicking in Empire? Do the Sects really compete that much? Do the Scions fall upon the weak with "fury unmatched"? I have seen evil Outlanders be total pricks, or "just one of the chameleoned gang".

I guess I want to see evil characters be evil besides 1. taking advantage of their much-less-limited (if at all) pk range and 2. killing goodies/raiding Fort. If those are the only two evil things you do then, yes, you should be wrathed by the Daevryn-Paladin-Wrath-Metric. BUT THEN if you're very polite and work well with your immediate allies and keep lots of connections with other characters, and other chars generally like you. Where's the real evil? I don't want to promote unsportsmanlike play, but evil just feels "too easy" much of the time. I'm finally experiencing the Team Evil-Black Hat phenomenon from the inside.

I've been playing an evil char (one of my first successful ones), and I feel more "black hat" than "evil bastard" most of the time. I realize there's a great difference between "polite OE sphere Deception Imperial" and "CE sphere Rage Orc".

You've made me realize I'm really talking about Chaotic Evil this whole time, although there's nothing truly tying Orderly Evil to respect or politeness outside of their personal belief system and hierarchy... although since it's usually tied to Imperial or Tribunal Law, there's going to be some deference to superiors somewhere. Some of the time. But shouldn't Orderly Evils try to manipulate their system as often as possible, or else rp genuine fear of superiors and punishment or fanatical dedication to their system/cause?

At the end of the day, my question is rather inchoate. My char feels like a two-dimensional black-hat-wearing creation until someone starts treating me like I'm an evil bastard. For some reason, that kind of reaction gets me going. I'm just not sure how to consistently initiate that for myself, get the rp and action rolling, continually get other people sucked into it, which just adds to the momentum, gets people involved and gets fun.

I agree, my chars often feel 2-dimensional until people really start acting as if I'm an evil bastard. However, I've felt that all of my chaotic evil chars have been WAAAAY better at actually being evil than my orderly ones.

One thing that helped me when I was doing Neyveryd was having a role that necessitated (and being in a cabal that allowed) killing fellow cabal mates.

I guess I don't feel that non-evil when I'm playing a guy who attacks innocents unprovoked. Hacks apart orphans and consumes their body parts. Has a dark pact with otherworldly beings and summons them to this world in order to do my bidding. Who lies to people whenever it suits him. Who ignores requests for help when it suits him. Etc.

You've got to remember that any evil who is also *caballed* is, besides being evil, obsessively devoted to a cause. That will motivate him to want to work with others who are similarly dedicated to the cause instead of just killing them for fun.

I usually have some kind of psycological reason in the background why they are evil, though that probably isn't so neccessary for evil-only races like drow or duergar. Something like being tormented or abused somehow as a child, or denied basic physical or emotional needs or rights. Something that would make his/her mind work differently and not see eye-to-eye with the majority of the good/neutral peasant class (These things are inherent in drow/duerg societies).

..reading some stories about serial killers, sociopaths and sadists can help get inspiration.

The way I break it down is that evil characters are selfish, good chars are altruistic and rarely put themselves first even if it would help the "greater good".. and neutral is not afraid of appearing selfish or weak by using either behavior.

An evil chars selfishness could vary, especially when working in a team with other characters. They might appear to be concerned with the welfare of their companions, but only to the end that it will benefit the character; so their "niceness" would tend to be very shallow.

I happen to have posted something about that on another topic below, I'll repeat it here:

"Being evil isn't a black and white thing.

You could say that:

Evil = Mostly black with some gray and maybe a drop of white.

Balanced = Mostly gray, with some black and white.

Good = Mostly white with a touch of gray and maybe a drop of black.

Anyway, it's more interesting when things don't fall into clear-cut stereotypes."

What this means is that you shouldn't play one-motive evils. Really deep Evils are not "I hate everything and want to kill everything" types.

Evils may like, or even love things that other people would also like/love. As you said, honor and respect may be high values.

So, what sets them apart as evil, is, as I see it: They take what they want, whenever they want it in a way that gets the best result, with as little negative consequences to themselves. Negative consequences to others are unimportant, or perhaps even a happy side-effect. Or, in case of sadists, that might be the goal.

The main thing is that, as opposed to Dur, I don't believe evil is selfish, per se. They might be and often are, but typically, they would at least be extremely self-centered.

They may support valuable allies, but only one person really matters, themselves.

is probably from the Dragonlance series, where Raistlin Majere decends to evil, but there were always areas of kindness, or love involved. We was primary "evil" in the fact that he was willing to do anything to accomplish his goals, whether it was be nice, cruel, or merely aloof from everyone else.

If you would ask her, she'd never even begin to imagine herself as evil. She does what she believes is best for her children and especially the one that is king.

She would say she means well for the Lannister family and the kingdom they rule over.

But, ultimately, she's as evil as it gets.

Evils who would swear they are doing good things, while being 100% honest (from their viewpoint), are very effective characters.

Edited to add: And she's a character you just love to hate :)

Was by playing crazy evil, which slowly morphed into regular ass evil.

You might try it. Basically what I did was choose a couple really disturbing character traits and speech patterns for the guy and over-RPed them early on. That sorta precluded me from having the normal IC buddies that you have, which made it easier to stay nasty once the character was older. But yeah, try basing it on "crazy ass evil" rather than "calculated evil", since in CF often the rational self interested route is to be buddy buddy with people. TBH though, being a muter probably helped. Duo gives you a certain ability to "not afraid of anything", which frees you up to be a real ####.

Character was Neyveryd BTW.

Since you are evil, the well-being of others is not a factor to you. Just act completely selfishly, without taking the well-being of others into account. What matters is your own well-being and you should put that first in all situations. That being said, I don't do nasty stuff to others either and my characters don't tend to be very evil.