Lately I've taken a stroll over to the darker side of cf, and the more I look around, the more it pisses me off. I finally took a look in a place that doesn't need publicity, and the majority of it, is just a bunch of blatant cheating. There are secret websites of info for cheat rings, and when that doesn't work it's in random languages. In a certain cabal, there is a certain class, that every single one of them has known how to go get shawtabbies. There are roleplayed quests into hell, but obviously this isn't exploration, because they come out pretty much all intact, and have gotten down fairly deep. Everybody and their brother seems to know a ton of wand locations, except for us that don't talk to anyone. I just recently (today) saw a log of Kariforus (he's deleted so I can mention this), instant messaging his buddies while he's playing. His buddies sounded like they were also empire. So how is a person supposed to have a decent shot at survival, fun, fair combat, or even exploration with this going on? Should we just open hell back up to all, instead of letting only those that know it like the back of their hand go in? Sorry everyone, I'm just feeling really bitter tonight, but this has also been building up for a while. I think I can some it up in one sentence. QUIT %^&* CHEATING!

It ended up driving me away from the game ultimately.

Cheating is impossible to prevent. Someone will always piss in the village fountain if no one is watching. It is just the human nature of the weak and shallow.

All you can do is just deal with it. Ignore it. Do the best you can despite the cheaters. All you should be concerned with is proving to yourself what you can accomplish. Play this game for yourself and to hell with what anyone else thinks of you. You get ganked by a perma or OOC ring? Stand up, dust yourself off and soldier on having the satisfaction that you know that they needed three or whatever to take you down. Once you are satisfied with your performance, walk away with your head held high knowing that you did not compromise your integrity which is more important to me than any amount of success invalidated by cheating.

Personally, I sought out the cheaters (they are easy to spot) and handed their asses to them when they were alone. When they hunted together, I simply avoided them. The latter was easy enough.

Just chalk it up to the anonymity of the internet and simply do as I do and laugh at how pathetic some 150 pound computer geek can possibly be by having to resort to cheating in his feeble and desperate attempt to demonstrate any kind of dominance in anything (even a fantasy game) in order to compensate for his self-evident inadequacies in the real world. Kinda sad really. Oh well.

Drucyrus

>I just recently (today) saw a log of Kariforus (he's deleted so I can mention this), instant messaging his buddies while he's playing. His buddies sounded like they were also empire. So how is a person supposed to have a decent shot at survival, fun, fair combat, or even exploration with this going on?


Works the other way too. By the time he and the two other imperials he was with(One who seemed to be distracted at the same time as him while the other moved away) figured out what was going on it was too late for him.

<757hp 632m 95mv 21600tnl 6 PM> l kari
Striking you as unusual the felar of this felar before you in a dark red
reminding you of shiny rubies. His oddly colored fur is well maintained
and brushed flat against his skin. Thin wiry shoulders support a small head.
One ear standing tall and perky the other sags forward bouncing as he walks.
Thin pert lips part to reveal a sinister grin, two huge fangs seems to gleam
in the light. The fur around his eyes is trimmed neatly around his eyes.
Two brilliant blue almond shaped eyes seem to devour your soul as you
make contact with them.
Kariforus, a male felar, is gushing blood.

Kariforus is using:
<worn on finger>    (Glowing) a banded ring
<worn on finger>    (Glowing) a banded ring
<worn around neck>  (Glowing) a Talisman of Strength
<worn around neck>  (Glowing) an emerald summoning stone
<worn on body>      (Glowing) the Platemail of the Abyss
<worn on tail>      a barbed tail ring
<worn on head>      (Glowing) a circlet of cold steel
<worn on legs>      some leggings from the snow worm
<worn on hindpaws>  hind-paw studded wraps, with bronze claws
<worn on forepaws>  a pair of spiked gauntlets
<worn about body>   the hide of a desert troll
<worn about waist>  a girdle of many pouches
<worn around wrist> (Glowing) a sapphire bracelet
<worn around wrist> (Glowing) a sapphire bracelet
<wielded>           (Humming) a shadowy spear

<757hp 632m 95mv 21600tnl 7 PM> vis
You step back into three dimensions.

<757hp 645m 146mv 21600tnl 7 PM> c decalcify kariforus
Kariforus yells 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You decalcify Kariforus's bones making them brittle.

<757hp 605m 146mv 21600tnl 7 PM> c 'disrupt bone' kariforus
Kariforus yells 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You disrupt Kariforus's bones!
Your disruption <<< ERADICATES >>> Kariforus!
Kariforus is convulsing on the ground. 

<757hp 555m 146mv 21600tnl 8 PM> 
Kariforus parries your crush.
Kariforus parries your crush.
Kariforus's defilement MASSACRES you!
Kariforus's claw MASSACRES you!
Kariforus's defilement MASSACRES you!
Kariforus is convulsing on the ground. 

<552hp 555m 146mv 21600tnl 8 PM> 
You are hungry.
Kariforus is convulsing on the ground. 

<558hp 565m 197mv 21600tnl 8 PM> c 'disrupt bone' kariforus

Kariforus leaves west.
Kariforus has fled!

<558hp 565m 197mv 21600tnl 8 PM> w
They aren't here.

<558hp 565m 197mv 21600tnl 8 PM> The dark, moss-covered mountainside within the Mists


Kariforus the felar is here.

<558hp 565m 187mv 21600tnl 8 PM> c 'disrupt bone' kariforus
Kariforus yells 'Die, Gradaelus, you sorcerous dog!'
You disrupt Kariforus's bones!
Your disruption >>> ANNIHILATES <<< Kariforus!
Kariforus is DEAD!!
Kariforus hits the ground ... DEAD.

People who think they lose because others are cheating are usually very wrong and the fact that they lose is probably because they suck.

I've found tons of wands, by myself. I have no problem competing in pk, and I dont cheat.

I have friends that play cf, that does not mean I treat them differently or tell them secret stuff.

I do pretty well, because I've been around since the first age. However you can't tell me, that someone that has god knows how many people at his finger tips because of an instant messenger service, doesn't have a leg up on others. What bothers me more is the "that's the way I like to play" argument. When did "cheating as a method of play" become an option? Why would people even consider a game (a contest made up of rules)fun, if they KNOW they are cheating. It's like a slap in the face to the people that volunteer their time to run this free game for us. If the game shut down tomorrow or next week because they got tired of all the cheaters, would it be worth it? "Well I only did this" "I didn't think it was that bad" "That's how I have fun", all the excuses in the world are weak at best. Just like if you are in a track meet, you run around the track, not across the in field walk across the finish line, and say "I win". You play a GAME by it's rules, or you're defeating the whole purpose of it.

To that group of shady characters, generally if they're 'winning' because of their own accomplishments or because they know everyone in their cabal, have a neat excel sheet of wand locations and have a group of trustable buddies to rank them quickly and efficiently plus their buddies 'combos' are chosen to compliment one another, doesn't matter.

All that matters is that they do well, to them. Be it by having a 'sick set' or by having a 'great ratio' or a insane kill count, there are just some people who the game isn't fun if they don't have those, and they don't even consider cheating as cheating. They consider it fair competition.

Look at a guy like Arolin. The vast majority of his solo characters were nothing of note, mediocre and quite a few were sub-par, yet that doesn't deter his massive ego. If he was forced choose either playing 100% by the rules or not playing at all, I think he'd choose to not play.

Two things.

1. Don't play classes that rely heavily on wands (or shawtabbies) unless you know a) wand locations, b) know how to find them without cheating, or c) are willing to work within the restrictions of being "wandless".

2. Be paranoid and assume everyone cheats. Assume each of your cabalmates has another char that is your enemy. Try to avoid letting them know anything about your habits: where you rest, where you explore, your hometown, etc. If you're exploring an area and someone sees you there, assume your "cover" is blown and that enemies may be on the way. Consider getting out asap if it's an area that's hard to get out of.

It's not the people with gear that scare me, it's the people with knowledge of my character. Hometown, rest spots, routes I take, preps I use, where I rank, my cabal, my deity, etc.

In fact I'm so paranoid I recently considered *only* solo-ranking in a certain spot I found, just so my potential groupmates' players wouldn't know my character ranks there (and come kill me with their other characters).

Then again, I have a sickness.

That reminds me when Drucyrus posted a web address of a dodgy site on Dios, and I looked at it, and it had a thread showing my gear (of Daurwyn) followed by a discussion of which site users would get what when they killed me (and they had agreed to kill me together). Sadly for them I died to a rager gang of four first and the whole lot got sacced.

What annoys me more (because you will always have cheats, and that includes amongst the imm staff when it is so large and is drawn from a playerbase with cheats) is inconsistent treatment of different characters. (Before I get asked to name names, which I won't, just ask yourself how info gets into the public domain before it is officially released to players.)

For example, why were poisoners allowed to continue to exploit known bugs (moving guildguards, super-long duration ingredients) which had been posted as FNCR until they were actually fixed? I know when I've found similar bugs I've been told by imms not to use the skill/item/whatever in certain situations until the bug is fixed, and moreover I wasn't intending to anyway once the bug was identified. Yet certain poisoners were allowed to continue using them and after that given other rewards. I just don't get that. Surely a player has certain responsibilities to the game that they should observe, and if they don't, they shouldn't get the ic rewards that others are looking for whilst observing these responsibilities.

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing implemented is:

when limited gear gets passed down more than 30 ranks, flag it with the name of the character who has passed it down. Then make it subject to that character's playing time when it comes to gear hoarding. If that higher level character isn't around any more, make the gear crumble when it would if that higher level character still held it. If the higher level character deletes, make the gear crumble. This should prevent gear being passed from high-bie to lowbie amongst ooc circles.

I disagree with this. I gave some of my gear away to my cabal mates as Beltantis when I had only a couple of deaths left in me and was ending my character's career. I have no idea who they are OOC, and don't particularly care, but it was a defining roleplay move of Beltantis' to give his two blessed swords to a young squire in wishes that they would continue to serve the light well. Really it all comes down to reporting what you know and when things get reported, hopefully something is done about it. The problem is, its hard to know whats going on to report stuff when you're actively trying to not get involved in it.

Merely because I hand out gear I find all the time. If I spot a gnome only item, or a necro only item I'll often look for the first gnome or necro I can see and just randomly hand the item out. I never know them OOC and usually don't know them IC. Since we all know I don't get to play all that often, why should players that I don't know not get to benefit from my altruism? I can see the argument that some price must be paid to stop cheating, but such a change would hurt those that just like to explore and hand out any decent stuff they come across.

I don't feel that a lowbie gnome should necessarily be able to hang onto the crown from Blingdenstone for very long. He didn't particularly earn it. Sure, a lot of cf is about luck, but you can still enjoy the item for a while.

I gotta agree with you here Folorad, I dont know if you knew Odie at all, but I was always passing out gear just because I didnt really need it, I found the first most fortunate person that could use it. I gave gear to EVERYONE and I didnt pick just my IC friends or OOC people at all.

> I just recently (today) saw a log of Kariforus (he's deleted so I can mention this), instant messaging his buddies while he's playing.

...and? Ever pulled off some sick #### and pasted it to one or two buddies? I don't see anything wrong with that. In his case, he got shafted and pasted his anathema to his friends. So what? As long as his friends won't go easy on him because he knows them ooc, there is nothing wrong with what he did (imho).

> His buddies sounded like they were also empire.

Well, I guess this comes back to how some people like to play cf. Some people like to play alone, be a solo act and self-reliant. Others like to play as a team, and like in other games, that sometimes extends in playing with your friends. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that, as long as:

(1) You don't exclude everyone else ie: if you just group with your ooc buddies.

(2) You don't use ooc channels of communications to do things you couldn't do ic...for instance if you get slept + gagged etc...and call for aid over aim. Very bad form.

(3) You treat your friends characters as you would treat any other character. If your a rager and your friends a scion, you two shouldn't be holding hands around the campfire, so to speak.

> So how is a person supposed to have a decent shot at survival, fun, fair combat, or even exploration with this going on?

Surviving is easy. Very easy. Fair combat? Give me a break, its much easier to coordinate combat/pk ic than it is to do it ooc. Exploration? wtf? I don't see your point as to how cheating will impact on your cf experience while you explore an area. If people want a walkthrough for a quest or area that's their business, though its much more fun and enjoyable to go through and figure it all out by yourself. Some people like the spoon, so what? Thats life.

It's been said a billion times by immortals and players alike that people who figure things out for themselves make much better players/killers than people who get #### handed to them on a platter.

> I'm just feeling really bitter tonight, but this has also been building up for a while. I think I can some it up in one sentence. QUIT %^&* CHEATING!

When it comes down to it, CF is a game and cheating is going to occur, like in all games. I suggest you simply concentrate on how you play the game and try to continually make yourself a better player, rather than worrying about how others are playing the game and blaming their cheating/whatever for your deaths/lack of knowledge/bed-wetting/divorce/miscarriage...

Romanul.

Report it, naming names. Complaining doesn't do much. Cheaters losing characters and/or eating bans does.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com