I always regret posting things like this, but it drives me crazy when people are wrong on the internet. :P

1) The total number of sleek amber, shield, and barrier locations is a fair bit less than 100, much less 150.

2) To the best of my knowledge, there is not now nor has there ever been a way for a player to reach a size greater than 'enlarged giant'. The secret leet way to achieve this is to start out as a giant-sized PC and eat cheap enlarge roots like candy. Sometimes y'all think too hard and try to come up with the apocryphal pen that can write in space when a pencil will do. :)

One mage helping another mage in her cabal find their sleeks, I assume, isn't a problem. But what about, say, a magic sphere character that helps any mage at all? Do you think it's different to run around together checking spots in person rather than just rattling off a list of spots? What about just handing someone a penned note?

It seems like part of the reason the locations were randomized were that too many people knew the old sets. So, imagine the game if you can almost always find someone in your cabal who knows all 100-150 spots, like you used to be able to find someone who knew all the sets. Would you feel like you had to chance the spots around at that point again?

I'm all for help IC.

But, for example, I don't consider a level 20 warrior rattling off a list of 50 locations to be IC.

After playing shapeshifters for so long I've compiled quite the list of locations (between 85 and 90). While I am sure some of them are obsolete I very rarely have trouble finding my rods and if I do it's always a sienna, Which I find odd and it really erks me out.

Take it as you may and may you take it someplace pleasant.

>1) The total number of sleek amber, shield, and
>barrier locations is a fair bit less than 100, much less 150.

The problem is that wand locations get changed, but people keep checking the older ones because "you never know". Some of the time they're changed without public addressing either. It's also hard to keep a confirmed list unless you either go OOC with friends, ask a ton of people in-game over several months (which is kinda OOC as it is), or play an absurd amount of characters with a/b/s so the lists grow to "maybe it's a location" spots.

And I'll save some time by apologizing for wand spots getting moved long ago as it's likely the reaction I'll get to this post.

About your comment about area explores being easier, yes and no...obviously some of them are easier than others but some are also ridiculously hard - especially depending on your class. For example, an anti-paladin will most likely be screwed with most barrier spots - while a defense shifter, invoker or conjurer will think they're super easy. Mobs that stone-shatter for example can be a pain in the ass depending on your class. Anti-paladins get the absolute crap-end of the stick in this regard, while they already have problems with a smaller player base, less charges on players because of it, harder to gather preps for fighting people worth charges, etc. If I've any real complaint about the "balance" is it's how bad AP's get screwed by a/b/s.

Even beyond limited barrier wands that aren't easily hoarded by several people (even better are the lowbie killers who use them and never rank), most of the non-sleeks aren't accessible for an AP either. I almost feel like limited wands should have 2 uses, restricted to one per player, and always be in....but eh I don't like that either.

At some point I'll write-up a longer in-depth view and hopefully a better solution that can be constructive but I've just not come to a solid enough answer to merit starting the discussion about it yet. I was hoping to also talk about it in the CF podcast, but a lot of people have been flaking in that regard so eh.

You always bring this up, and there's always an answer.

1. AP's don't have an power-cap. They have the potential to become stronger and stronger. Do you really think anyone wants AP's to realistically have ABS at rank 36? You know, I know, and everyone else knows that APs having ABS makes them too overpowered.

2. APs are different than other mages, especially in the mid-ranks. APs should be "easier" to kill, simply because their ability to seal kills is a lot greater than any other mage class. It's a give and take.

>You always bring this up, and there's always an answer.
>
>1. AP's don't have an power-cap. They have the potential to
>become stronger and stronger. Do you really think anyone wants
>AP's to realistically have ABS at rank 36? You know, I know,
>and everyone else knows that APs having ABS makes them too
>overpowered.

First off, I never said having ABS at 36 - no class should really get that but if you get lucky with wand spots you can very easily. I'm talking about having it at 51 when honestly they need it. The fact that they have no power cap doesn't really come into the equation into ABS at that point because a gang or well setup tactics or even cheap ones will end that cap with or without ABS. The difference is you won't get one-rounded by a RBW, ice devil pain trains, or shifters who land mutliple OBLITS without any work/investment involved.

In this area ya kind of need experience first hand to comment since it's vastly different than other mages. And recent as well, as I think it's changed quite significantly in the last year or so - especially given the playerbase size changes. Awhile ago with some of my more successful APs to point at, I can say it was a whole lot easier. I think the last AP to even get close to this "power" range was the d-elf tribunal who mostly had his guards land last hits and rescue him...and he still lost his weapon fairly easily after a very long time investment to protect it.

>
>2. APs are different than other mages, especially in the
>mid-ranks. APs should be "easier" to kill, simply because
>their ability to seal kills is a lot greater than any other
>mage class. It's a give and take.

Not even close dude - I'm sorry but I could easily point to Jindicho, Miyo and other lowbie conjurers, and even some current necros around who are absolutely wrecking their range in the mid-ranks. Bash bash may get you a majority of lowbie/newbie kills but other classes are simply easier to land kills with in my opinion....even with your point of no power cap, I'd be more inclined to run versus an angel/demon conjurer with aura/shield/stone/desensitize and a solid familiar than an AP. This imaginary scary AP doesn't really exist anymore unless they gang (which is a bit counter intuitive given the lack of getting the last hits and anti-gang code) or get fed by high charge people (which usually people who are worth a significant amount are smart enough to get away from APs....and ironically are extremely rare now given the smaller playerbase).


I love how people base the argument of balance over people like Cabdru, Ravon, etc when none of these types have existed in a long time....and the class or certain items got severely toned down after because of their absurdity. Point to one in the last six months or year and I'd consider it but it just doesn't happen anymore.

...there has been an AP with over 200 charges, and one with over 100 charges, at the very least, right?

I mean, just wondering.

Lamayinn, who I specifically brought up in my posts, had 123....with a high-gank ratio, using lieutenants to rescue and land final blows (which still gives charges), and it took probably 500 out of 723 hours to get to that point. And lost the unholy fairly easily.

The only other one I can fathom is Gurzweeg, which abused some items which got severely turned down because of it....who had an even higher gank ratio, 600 something hours, but it was over a year ago and honestly the game is so different since then it's not even funny. Not to mention immortal comments like fleeing at 1800hp to protect his unholy. And if I remember his wand spot correctly it was pretty much one of the ones that's considered winning the ABS lottery.

I'm not belittling either character but it really isn't right to consider them in this discussion. Two characters in over a year of the game, which has dropped in numbers drastically and had several things toned down and harder to accomplish, is not something it should be balanced around.

I'd be like saying "well ####, Cabdru did it, Anti-paladins are OP!" when clearly they are not.

1) Not really interested in having this argument with you.

2) You play "almost" exclusively APs. I don't think warriors are OP because of Kostyan or Hunsobo. Just because I play a ton of warriors, does that mean I should post about how prepping with a warrior is a giant pain in my ass? Or because of any Tiger leader char, Shifters are OP? I play a metric ass-ton of shifters. I've never once had a problem being competitive with my shifters. Have I got #### on in the great sleek search? Yes. Oh well. Time to rethink my tactis. Time to gear differently, time to use aura/shield a ton, etc, etc, etc.

3) I'm sorry, this kinda cracked me up.
>I love how people base the argument of balance over people like Cabdru, Ravon, etc when none of these types have existed in a long time....and the class or certain items got severely toned down after because of their absurdity. Point to one in the last six months or year and I'd consider it but it just doesn't happen anymore.<

Dude, really? The game has changed that drastically in the last six months? That would be like me saying Outlanders suck since they've had no presence in the last few months. Or that rangers suck unless they win role-contests (since the only real successful one right now is Paralouit). You're really just arguing for the sake of arguing at the moment.

You want APs to play out a certain way (that is most beneficial to you, coincedentally). The IMMs want them to play out differently. YOU'VE KNOWN THIS FOR YEARS, YET YOU STILL COMPLAIN.

Out of all the mages in CF, APs have some of the biggest weaknesses, but also some of the biggest strengths. You complain about APs at mid-ranks, yet I've seen Shapa roll 70 people or so with a human AP and no ganking around 30-36. I've seen countless people steamroll ####ers so bad with an AP, mainly because you have decent melee, decent utility, and a way to basically #### over every class in the game at those ranks.

I don't think the wands hit hero A-Ps anywhere near as hard as you're suggesting.

Things are generally rougher on 36 A-P, sure. And I'm okay with that.

You didn't need OOC knowledge to figure out the Silent Tower vault level unless you were severely bad at puzzles. Without giving away more than I have to (in case I ever find the time to clean up what I want to and put it back live), there were essentially two pieces of information you needed to navigate it safely:

The first piece of information you needed (what you can and can't take) was written plainly on the door to that room/floor of area.

The second piece of information you needed (how to take the things you can take) was spelled out clearly in a journal found in the Tower. Dozens of people at a minimum found it; it's lying in plain sight in a non-hidden-object corpse.

I swear y'all make some of this stuff a lot more complicated than it is.

(Edited to clarify the first piece a bit)

FWIW certain coding limitations made it possible for you to *know* how to do something in ST, but still get messed up.

As a for instance, reading helpfiles is considered "doing something".

However, I still know how to get to exactly two exploration areas. The Lost Elven Vaults, and Hell. These days, exploring any of those areas is pretty much not going to happen for anyone that hasn't yet done it. Why? Anytime there are sufficient allies around to explore at hero, they'd rather be using that time to raid- after which they'll likely all log off. The obvious exception is Hell, as with ST closed, it seems to be the only place anyone wants to go.

That there are peoples sleeks claiming to be found on hamsah docks ships and way into area explores and whatnot, Increasing the chance significantly that one/all the attunement edges need be taken because as an average player over a 300-400 hours character you may not ever even come across the thing in the first place, and sometimes if you do, its someplace that you cant get it by yourself no matter how bad you want it. Even at hero. Im not saying I have a better system, It is what it is. Im just saying what most of the complaints I hear about is. Its not so much that theres 50, or 100, or even 150 locations. Its that some of the locations are madness. Just madness. :p

Locations are rough in different ways. Some are easy but a pain in the ass in some way, some are in high traffic areas and add danger that way, some involve being exposed for a good stretch in an area you can't recall from, some involve fighting mobs or dealing with terrain that will mess you up and raise your PK risk that way, and some are just knock-down drag-out hard fights.

IMHO, the handful of locations in area explores are some of the easiest locations to actually get the rod from -- in that sense, they're 'hard' because they require area knowledge that might be a little more obscure, even if in other respects they're easier than many of the alternatives. All of them that I can think of off the top of my head are locations I'd hope to draw with almost any character who could.

As always, your mileage may vary.

The wands system is uh...well...I guess some people will keep playing mages. Not me. I could give you a hundred reasons why its annoying and counter-productive but I guess it doesn't really matter.

I've fought way to many mages with no or minimal prep who have either escaped, killed, or driven me off without using them.

I've played a few lowbie mages recently and they are easily competative at those ranks.

n/t

You roll Cabtwo (or any mage, but I think that's clever).

Based on your acquired game knowledge, familiarity with the code, buddy list, etc., who cares, you come to learn your sleek black is .

Do you feel slighted about your situation when your mage pal or cabal mate has location?

Are you okay with using edge points for a chance at a better spot?

Can you make a living off limited barrier? (You can because you're Nep, but you get the idea...)

How do you feel as a player knowing that yes, you knew upfront that this might happen, but in the here and now you got the shaft and it still sucks to be you?

You seem like a very competitive player, so is this a big deal to you? Delete and reroll to maximize your deathfulness at it's power-gamey best or do the best with what you have?



I think the system as it stands has flaws, but I don't think they're fixable ones, and I think that since the rules and the odds are basically made clear before one has to invest a ton of time into a mage, it's "fair" in the sense that there are no surprises once you understand how it works. It's the people who insist on playing mages and then further demand that the system support them who seem to be the most disappointed.

I'm not 100% sure I understand what you're asking, but I'm going to try to answer what I think you're asking:

I make the best I can out of the situation I have, most likely with some limited A/B/S stuff in the mix. It's most likely been years since I've had a character who found all three rods *and* could get all three easy enough to want to. That is to say, often I'll draw at least one wand, let's say aura that I either don't find or is a pain for character X to get, so he will mostly roll with an alternate aura source instead.

>I think the system as it stands has flaws, but I don't think
>they're fixable ones, and I think that since the rules and the
>odds are basically made clear before one has to invest a ton
>of time into a mage, it's "fair" in the sense that there are
>no surprises once you understand how it works. It's the people
>who insist on playing mages and then further demand that the
>system support them who seem to be the most disappointed.

I somewhat agree with this. I don't think the current system is perfect, just better (for the things I want the system to accomplish) than any subsequent suggestion.

We've fixed some things in it over the years as some flaws became apparent, but it doesn't seem likely to me that something completely different will happen at this point.

You said...
2) To the best of my knowledge, there is not now nor has there ever been a way for a player to reach a size greater than 'enlarged giant'.

Are you sure?

I saw something in game here recently (last 2 months) where I started a character just to check out the possibility. It requires a couple things, one of which I have an idea where to find but no idea how to aquire.

Until I see to this myself or see another person attempt, I'll have to wonder.

Unless you mean there isn't a slot option of larger than enlarged giant available period. In which case the things I saw would just be redundant.

It might be possible to do it, but if it is, I don't know about it.

There is/was a Silent Tower item that would enlarge multiple sizes, but only gnome-race PCs could use it and it was mutually exclusive with other forms of enlargement.

There's also that neat legendary perma-enlarge item that I love because I'm too lazy to keep enlarge stuff, but I did double-check that it doesn't work with other enlarge methods, if any randoms are wondering.

But I don't want to say anymore.

Was it golden in color?

I think I tried it, and it didn't work.

Fhjf

A. Only increases your Size by 1. That is to say, when a giant wears it. He recieves the enlarge spell. Making him size 3

B. That item is not from silent tower, and is currently found in game.

Like you have berserk up.

And it was buggy last I checked.

Though it was nice with Aeinrez berserking with that on and practicing skills. Yay for mastering entwine in a single ranking session!

though in reality that just encourages mass log-in and log-offs.

With it?

d

"2) To the best of my knowledge, there is not now nor has there ever been a way for a player to reach a size greater than 'enlarged giant'."

Lies! What about the Ysigrath vine???