What's the reason behind changing it now? Shove was already quiet niche skill, why making it even less useful?
Also announcing such changs can be cool too:)

I don't think you've been able to shove anything that qualified as a servitor for years.

Are you trying to say that you couldn't shove nightwalkers for those years?

As far as I know.

Or should I post the logs of shoving nightwalkers during the whole 3 years I'm playing?

Personally, even if it disables the entire conjurer class, I think you should be able to shove all servitors. It's an unintended feature that should remain.

If you don't want your servitors to get shoved, blind the blade.

Nerfing an entire class is entirely different to making one cabal power so that it has to be used more carefully.

>Personally, even if it disables the entire conjurer class, I
>think you should be able to shove all servitors.

Generally:

1) Mechanically, I don't think it's fair to be able to very trivially turn a mob that will flawlessly, unavoidably track you until you die (or kill/dismiss it) on its master.

2) Logic/realism-wise, it doesn't make sense to me to be able to turn a sentient creature that's bound to a conjurer in the way that servitors are permanently against you with a bit of dirty fighting. This is doubly true in the case of something like a good conjurer and an archon.

Of course, I also didn't come up with the Shove skill, but it's not like Empire warriors are exactly hurting.

I'm aware that you disagree and it is what it is.

It's not like scions are hurting powerwise too. So why the change? Why now? Why for example not 5 years ago?

Because noone abused it like they are now? Also noncasters in Scion are definately hurting power wise.

Shove is very rarely used. And many people even don't know how to use it correctly. Anyway besides ocational use in ranking there were three general cases I used this skill in:
1) While fighting the outer guardians - mostly for cool points:)
2) While fighting druids/beastmasters/outlanders - to get rid of their pets
3) While fighting scions - practicaly the same as 2 exept that nightwalker chases scion after word/teleport.

Now we have only two uses for the skill, one wasn't realy useful in first place.

Got me. I wasn't the one who said it changed. :P

<402/1077(37%) 651/670 462/1047 18891 1 AM>
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
The Nightwalker's claw bounces harmlessly off of your stony hide.
You dodge the Nightwalker's claw.
Dartis parries your pierce.
Dartis parries your pierce.
Dartis parries your pierce.
Your pierce misses Dartis.
You dodge Dartis's stinging lash.
Dartis's stinging lash mauls you.
Dartis is covered with bleeding wounds.

<379/1077(35%) 651/670 462/1047 18891 1 AM> hit nigh
You start aiming at the Nightwalker.
The Nightwalker has a few scratches.

<379/1077(35%) 651/670 462/1047 18891 1 AM> shove dart
You shove Dartis in front of the Nightwalker!
Dartis yells 'Help! Adarmar is shoving me into battle!'

<379/1077(35%) 651/670 462/1047 18891 1 AM>
Dartis's stinging lash devastates the Nightwalker!
Dartis's stinging lash wounds the Nightwalker.

********

<757/1198(63%) 510/630 716/1060 24350 12 PM>
You dodge the Nightwalker's claw.
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
Morag's sting MASSACRES you!
Morag's acidic bite MANGLES you!
You dodge Morag's acidic bite and close in for a concealed attack!
Your surge of water decimates Morag!
Jezzie steps out of the shadows.
You dodge Jezzie's slice.
You knock Jezzie's slice aside before it comes near you.
Your surge of water misses the Nightwalker.
Your surge of water misses the Nightwalker.
Your surge of water MASSACRES the Nightwalker!
The Nightwalker dodges your surge of water.
The Nightwalker has some small but disgusting cuts.

<591/1198(49%) 510/630 716/1060 24350 12 PM> shove mor
Jezzie lands a precise strike, taking advantage of your weakness.
Jezzie's circle stab === OBLITERATES === you!
The Nightwalker has some small but disgusting cuts.

<372/1198(31%) 510/630 716/1060 24350 12 PM>
Morag lashes at you with the whipping tail of a manticore!
Morag's lash misses you.
The Nightwalker has some small but disgusting cuts.

<372/1198(31%) 510/630 716/1060 24350 12 PM> Your shoving cannot overcome their binding!
The Nightwalker has some small but disgusting cuts.

<372/1198(31%) 510/630 716/1060 24350 12 PM>
You parry the Nightwalker's claw.
You dodge Morag's sting.
Morag's acidic bite MASSACRES you!
Morag's sting MASSACRES you!

********

Eh, if you haven't changed something fine. If you don't know that something was changed fine. But then why are you stepping to discussion and pretend that something was there for years and there were no change? Seriously asking you sometimes is just moot. Not that I asked personaly you in the first place.

Since if you do a author search it gives away the player of a prominent character. Or at least edit one line of this post.

>Eh, if you haven't changed something fine. If you don't know
>that something was changed fine. But then why are you stepping
>to discussion and pretend that something was there for years
>and there were no change? Seriously asking you sometimes is
>just moot. Not that I asked personaly you in the first place.

Some response, even if it's "I don't know," is better than nothing, imo.

Hutto, the Sleepy Nitpicker


'Sorry, I'm not 72323slhlst. Or however you say Elite'
-Vynmylak

If it's "I don't know"

And personally I consider that balanced. To me, it is good that there are occasions that having nightwalkers is bad besides the fact they stop you sleeping people who the nightwalker has already engaged.

However, I also think that scions should be able to release nightwalkers as long as the nightwalker is not aggro to them, so that if they do have a nightwalker, they can get it to leave before they fight a Blade (unless they are willing to take the risk of being shoved). That has other advantages like not getting plagued multiple times by the same sick nightwalker. The way it currently works you either have to upset it on purpose (which is just kind of bleh) so it leaves, or kill it (which doesn't feel right).

It's also worth noting that sometimes shoving scion/nightwalker together is not a good move. Again, good for balance.

They are not in your group and they only attack one singular thing. Having them be able to be shoved back on you when you already are fighting a hard fight seems a bit rough.

It's still quite different.

For starters, you can outrun a beast. You can't outrun a nightwalker.

However, I believe shove should work on nightwalkers, personally.

I don't think anyone intended shove to be so powerful that it entirely nerfed one of the major cabal powers of an opposing cabal.

In the past when other empire powers were complained about, they explained it as "very few can do it". So if you apply it here, it's not like you'd have half of the mud shoving nightwalkers into scions. However I would like to see shove used much more widely, but then the thing you get shoved into doesn't stay aggro toward the victim. If that were to happen, I think it would be kosher to let them shove servitors.

When servitors end up attacking their master they redirect within a random (1-3) number of rounds.

How can you possibly say this having played outlanders and fought Scions?

I always looked at it as Empire hating scions and developing means to exactly nerf their major cabal power. Also it still is so powerfull to nerf two major class powers of druids and major cabal power of outlander. Say it wasn't not intended too.
Not to mention that spellbane nerf all non area spells:)

a) Sometimes Empire won't have the codex, and nightwalker still helps.
b) Sometimes the time taken to shove the nightwalker will result in the Imperial dying
c) Sometimes it makes sense for a cabal power to have drawbacks (e.g. eyes of flame, which I think is great, is balanced by having drawbacks if you don't take it down at the right times).