There is a thread on Dio's about how this legacy sucks now. Some claim that observations come slower and they go away within a few minutes of a fight or if you fight someone else.

Is this true? I always thought you were retained observations throughout the length of log in unless you died and you can observe multiple enemies at once.

>Is this true? I always thought you were retained observations
>throughout the length of log in

That's never been true, but it's not typically "just a few minutes" either.

> unless you died and you can
>observe multiple enemies at once.

You still can.

It's nice to see that the 'charges up slower' part of the original post wasn't addressed.

It also wasn't mentioned that STSF takes into greater account your opponents intelligence/wisdom--which has been nerfed.

For a character who's built for it, I don't think it charges up especially slower. YMMV.

I don't think it's changed since pre-Kostyan, and I think you'll have a hard time saying it wasn't any good in his era.

got like zero mileage out of the legacy. It blocked flee a handful of times.

Then again, almost every fight was over in less than 7 rounds with either me dead or my opponent.

I was very surprised though in that I rarely observed liches and shapeshifters.

Or a half-elf with WIS as their prime stat? From the helpfile it seems like WIS might be at least as or more important than INT.

Also, does it improve with age?

look up nuekar. though nep has said in the past that it is only int, gnomes still have 23 int.

NT

Chronically use chase triggers and I don't give you any credit.

Yeah. I've heard all the agruments in his favor. He's a real bad ass, sure.

Thing is, anybody can use chase triggers, and lots of people wouldn't hesitate to. And yet Marcus still stands out from among the crowd. Also, he kills lots of people with autosneak or quite movement, and chase trigger don't really help with them.

They still help, he uses them (Or did use them.) So I'm impressed not at all.

If chase triggers were all it took to get 400 kills...there would be a lot more 400 kills characters.

with regard to the PK aspect of the game.

Why defend him? He should have been roasted a long time ago, not given OMGs for it.

.

ntnt

Maybe pro won't get much from it. But the thing is chase triggers works wonders against newbies. And let's not lie ourself - greatest part of those 400 PKs comes from killing newbs as any high PK count does. Hell, I have almost nothing against chase triggers but I was realy pissed when I died to it when after my third or fourth flee/teleport from Malakhi I forgot to get teleport potion from girdle. Nooby from side but that's how those triggers works and what they were created for in the first place.

Wonder if the staff should just remove direction from the flee echo for all characters, instead of just those with autosneak or quiet movement.

Lessens, sure. Assuming he still uses them, which I doubt. But even if he does, and even if they account for half his kills, that still leaves him with more legit kills than any other rager ever. In fewer hours played. (Purely talking about Djabree here.)

I'm not defending his (or anyone else's) chase trigger use. I'm trying to point out that *even if you take that into account* he's still one of the top few warrior players around.

He could have a bajillion PK's and it wouldn't matter to me. He cheats or at least he used to. That's all that matters to me.

Now if he's getting high counds with out them sure, great. But any character that he's had that he used them with, don't stand out as remarkable save that they were played by a cheater.

It's black and white for me and that won't be changing.

and I will admit that marcus is the only player in this game who could run me down if we had equal mobility on a semi regular basis.

Lump onto that he does an amazing job of timing his commands to both squeeze out damage and maledicts as well as not give up space. ie he uses backhand between lag moves so that as soon as you flee he can chase. He does a disgustingly good job of maximizing his effectiveness, and he is faster then any one on this mud in terms of chasing.

He is also the anti-elitest in that he is not afraid to die, which gives him more chances to suceed (gives himself more opportunites to win because he is involved in more fights and also is involed in more fights because he is spending less time prepping). That is the real reason why he kills at 4 times the rate of the rest of the elite pkers.

I supose my final opinion is that the way I see it marcus is the best player killer to ever play cf.

All of what you mentioned is supposition and conjecture. His triggers are not. The skill dash was changed specifically because of him.

... I was accused for using triggers with Iegob. (I didn't, never have.) Just because I never spammed commands and since I knew when they were getting out of lagg I just waited to see what direction and dashed after them. People thought I was insanely quick, but it really ain't that hard. (+ against sneaky people I just took a guess in what direction, and got lucky a few times.)

Anyways, I consider Marcus to be the best warrior player anyways. Trigger using or not. Knowing how triggers and stuff work, I doubt it would be any better/faster using them.

Sure, you can wait for your opponent flee and put your command right after that. But I remember my fights vs Djabree and never will I belive that human can put three-four-five right placed dash commands one after another and never mistake with direction.

and the change was very noticeable. I don't think it was unjustified but even if you didn't touch the stsf code directly something changed that dropped learn rates by about a round.

Had this around Kostyan's time as a Dark Elf....


It was AWESOME.


Had this last week as a gnome. It was the worse choice I've ever had.


I can't even begin to tell you the difference. We are not talking nitpicking number crunching. We are talking VAST differences.

As a drow in about 10 rounds, I would have several insights against MOST players.
As a gnome, I would have several skirmishes with only 1 or 2 insights...maybe. Or go 10 rounds without more than 1 insight.

Against shapeshifters and such and some random players, I'd gain no insight AT ALL.

There is no question in my mind that this was either vastly changed...or 23 int is WAY worse than 24 int for this legacy and the wisdom increase matters hardly at all.

"There is no question in my mind that this was either vastly changed...or 23 int is WAY worse than 24 int for this legacy and the wisdom increase matters hardly at all."

The latter is true, from my experience. I played Aldonius, human warrior with int as prime stat (23) and then played Feilinal. Same specs, both with STSF.

The difference in learning was huge. HUGE. AFAIK, STSF charges based on int difference - elf fighting lich won't learn as well as gnome fighting mental-knifed duergar, for instance.

I'd never take STSF with anything less than 24 int again, FWIW.

For the metrics that you're talking about, yeah, 24 int is much much much better than 23.

In other ways, 25 wisdom would look pretty good, but I think these are things that you either haven't noticed or don't care about.

Dudes ... thanks for the responses in this thread. Good to have this stuff cleared up ... on the qhcfs there was a small outbreak of hysteria from people saying it was horribly nerfed, post-Kostyan. It's nice to hear otherwise.

It's also good to hear Twist confirming as far as his own experience, the big gap between int-23 and int-25 effectiveness in observations speed ... that was actually something I'd wanted to ask Twist on here for a long, long time, after I saw that he played the human Nexus warrior with 23 int and STSF.

Hmm, guess I won't be the one to try the STSF arial with Hour and (convenient imm reward) Balance of the sisters then ... figured as much.

IMHO: Nuekar was good, as was Siloreelo and some others but ... Jagaub does a lot better, and if gnomes aren't too good with getting quick observations with STSF, then it kind of lines up with the pk records of these (several) STSF gnomes, which were good for gnome warriors but nothing incredibly special.

Although they tended to pick some weird spec choices though (IMO) and only a few of them did Autumn/STSF.

Might be the case that Gnome warriors still lack their complete saving grace in legacies. :P Although, Siloreelo had Autumn Harvest and STSF (along with incarnadine wave apparently) ... maybe with the right edges and some other legacy and a bit of luck, we could have the 400-pk gnome warrior eh???!?

- Eyes

the advantage is actually the disadvantage that most gnome warriors are not that scary. This is because... well gnomes have crappy primary stats for pretty much everything warriors do. You actually play out just like a dwarf but with high mental stats and a big physical vuln.

But anyways most people are not afraid to fight a gnome warrior. mostly because traditionally gnome warriors are sucky. The great thing about stsf is once it gets charged up it can really turn a fight, so people are more likely to stay in a fight with you past that breaking point. Whereas vs an elf or a drow that they know has the legacy they may be much more catious about how much charge up time they give.

That was my plan with Mirto. Not many expect half race to have stsf. Sad thing that once a fight with blocking the flee is posted on phorums that won't work anymore:)

nt