As it stands, when a necro casts forget on the shifter, it's essentially a death sentence. Since they can't revert, they die.

Why is that? Why not just force a revert, at that point? It just seems unnecessarily harsh that a necro need land exactly one spell to ensure death. It just kind of ruins the fun of that matchup for all sides.

>As it stands, when a necro casts forget on the shifter, it's
>essentially a death sentence. Since they can't revert, they
>die.

I think you exaggerate this overall to try and make a point. You need to have mana to survive 4 ticks of forget (~240 mana for a top tier minor focus form that you aren't confident in).

>Why is that? Why not just force a revert, at that point?

Because you forgot how to revert.

>It just seems unnecessarily harsh that a necro need land exactly
>one spell to ensure death. It just kind of ruins the fun of
>that matchup for all sides.

Not every class vs. class is going to be easy. Necro vs. Shapeshifter tends to go in favor of the Necro if the Shifter doesn't do anything to prepare themselves.

As has already been mentioned, you can gear for saves if that is really the big problem you're having. There is also an edge (Girded Metamorphosis) you can take that allow you to fuel your form with hp/move if you cannot do so with mana.

For example, sleep, plague, crimson scourge, energy drain, etc. etc.

I know not everyone is going to match up perfectly with everyone. But I think the "out of mana + forget = instant death" thing is a little overboard.

The only shapeshifters who are likely to withstand a necro sleep are utility shapeshifters with their anti-sleep greater enliven. Otherwise, you'd better pray for the RNG. And I don't like putting all my eggs into the RNG basket.

>The only shapeshifters who are likely to withstand a necro
>sleep are utility shapeshifters with their anti-sleep greater
>enliven. Otherwise, you'd better pray for the RNG. And I don't
>like putting all my eggs into the RNG basket.

I sort of agreed with you back when shifters couldn't gear for in-form saves, but now they can and I don't.

>Why is that? Why not just force a revert, at that point? It
>just seems unnecessarily harsh that a necro need land exactly
>one spell to ensure death. It just kind of ruins the fun of
>that matchup for all sides.

Power Word Kill?

I think what sucks is the frustration with Forget where you know you're going to die, it's just going to take a a while and there's nothing you can do about it.

nt

Forget's not exactly a long spell.

Sleep + forget, now that's a killer.

Yay for armadillo ;)

I'm with Java on this one.

If I'm a shifter and I can do anything about it, I'm never going to fight a necro. It's actually one of the things that makes me not ever want to play a shifter again, because sooner or later if I'm in a cabal I'll have to fight a necro.

Seems like when you run out of mana you should just revert. Doesn't seem like a huge powerup to the shifter class.

No, its not a long spell and yes you can gear for save vs spell. But I feel its wrong that a shifter has such a major weakness vs a class.

Where 3 energy drains and 1 forget can kill you (max 4 ticks even from a lich. FOUR TICKS!!!)

Then you are either not good enough at your form yet or doing something extremely wrong.

Forget isn't a big deal considering it's entirely possible and feasible for an offense form to one-round the necro through most dam redux.

Like Nep said though, sleep + forget is deadly. And when is a necro NOT trying to sleep their opponent? Certainly the minority of the time.

That said, not every class needs to be evenly matched against every other. If you start trying to balance them all against each other we would end up with a bunch of identical classes with different names. I'm not sure shifter v necro is a more legitimate complaint than thief vs duergar warrior, assassin v owl/offense shifter, or prepared evil conjurer against almost anyone in the 30s (I'm sure you can think of more). Certainly the shifter has an easier time than almost anyone avoiding the battle if they choose.

Aarn

Particularly when combined with having energy drain.

And a whole slew of other spells that kill your mana over time, for that matter.