If you go to any of the top muds on the top mud sites, you will notice one major difference between them and Carrion Fields. They have a developed social aspect to it. Because Carrion Fields is a completly role play focused game when your logged on, this is an aspect to online gaming that is severly lacking here. With the introduction of the new and improved newbie channel, we finally got a tool to help out newbies beyond level 10 which was awesome. Ive found myself asking questions there myself, even though im a 10+ years veteran. Now onto my point.

If you look at a game like WoW with over 10 million subscribers paying 15 dolllars a month to play. Im certain that you will find that a good portion of the players play the game because of the social community aspect, and not because they find the game awesome fun. They would say that the game is pretty good, but im staying because of the online friends I got here.

This mud, even though great, has been steadily losing players over the years. Ive been following the advertisment forums, and I belive that advertisement is a great idea. However, there is a steady stream of new players trying Carrion Fields out. I notice them asking complete-newbie question on the newbie channel. What we need to do is introduce them to the OOC community as early as possible, since what makes people stick to a game is as much the OOC stuff as the in game stuff.

My suggestion is this. Either we need to introduce a tutor system into the game, where the people who answer yes to the "New to Carrionfields question" get assigned an OOC tutor on AIM or MSN (or an in game way to chat to them in an OOC manner). The other suggestion came from Lokain in dangeroom, which is an offial chat room on the official page. Where you can discuss and chat both in game and out of game stuff, not limited to the basic questions that the newbie channel offer. Ive picked up 3 or 4 people and added them to AIM, when they posted on QHCF or officials and helped them along. I introduced them to the ooc community, helped them with suggestions on how to gear and where to find stuff suitable for the class. I helped them find areas, general locations, suggestions for ranking places. Essentially a much more specific help than the newbie channel offer. But even more imporant.. the social aspect of chatting.

The game help made it easier for them to play, but the social aspect was what made them stay.

I know alot of imms are against the whole OOC/AIM/MSN/Dangeroom thing, but it is AIM, MSN and Dangeroom that is the reason this game is still alive. If not for the ooc connections and community aspect CF would be dead and gone years ago. If a chat room is added to the official page, it must be possible to log in without registering an account.

Personally I agree with Zulgh about the chat aspects of the game. There are a host of arguments for why you shouldn't add it and it's really not the best player friendly method by which to give players a lasting desire to keep playing CF.

Edit: I think RP is the best method by which to get a feel for CF and its players and to enjoy the game itself. I really don't like the whole add me to (insert instant messenger) because it lends itself too much to out of context info sharing and general BS. End Edit:

Personally, however the biggest killer to (in my case wannabe) RP and continuing to play the game beyond a point is character aging/death and just how damn addictive CF is.

From observation, most characters delete. Chalk it up to most people having the attention span of a gnat on crank or what have you, but age dying because of hours played, essentially makes CF a waste of time and effort for some. I understand and even partially agree with some of the arguments as to why age death is likewise a good thing but I'd argue that losing a fraction or more of Con each time you die, whether to mob or player already takes care of the threat of forever characters all by itself.

But in my mind, age death is a perpetual lurking presence that tends to undermine my interest in estabilishing in-game social networks with other players aside from a very rare few. Hell, it even makes me resent having to waste in game time typing or pasting a role even though I agree they're very useful. Even if I'm thoroughly enjoying trying to RP with someone, amidst the constant wheres and who pks necessity requires, I feel like I'm wasting precious time.

When I play a PK focused character, (and I play way too many consecutive hours) I invariably end up getting burnt out because it seems like the game is just a constant ebb and flow of get nicely geared, die, regear, get nicely geared, die.. add infinitum.

I don't seem to have the knack for playing an RP driven character or even a fair mix of RP and PK, because the RP aspect always seems like I'm just burning my character down time wise.

On the addictive aspect of CF, well that's what any game strives to be. So fun that you actually weigh your options when it comes to trying to decide whether to go grab that movie or do whatever, or keep playing because you're having fun already.

I probably shouldn't bash the whole aging aspect of the game, in hindsight because it's what makes it easy to decide that I can put my time to better use. Keep in mind, I once had managed to hero imm and kick myself now for not following through, so I'm definitely not saying CF isn't a good use of time, except as a mortal at least, in my mind it seems to lean that way.

>If you go to any of the top muds on the top mud sites, you
>will notice one major difference between them and Carrion
>Fields. They have a developed social aspect to it. Because
>Carrion Fields is a completly role play focused game when your
>logged on, this is an aspect to online gaming that is severly
>lacking here.

And that is purely the design of the game. Every single game (including all those you mentioned above) are NOT roleplaying games. When you turn your game into a chatroom it becomes a chatroom, not an immersive atmosphere.

> With the introduction of the new and improved
>newbie channel, we finally got a tool to help out newbies
>beyond level 10 which was awesome. Ive found myself asking
>questions there myself, even though im a 10+ years veteran.
>Now onto my point.

Which I think is a great way to keep it. People can instant answers to their questions (newb and vet alike), and it's not JUST the Immortals being involved.

>This mud, even though great, has been steadily losing players
>over the years. Ive been following the advertisment forums,
>and I belive that advertisement is a great idea. However,
>there is a steady stream of new players trying Carrion Fields
>out. I notice them asking complete-newbie question on the
>newbie channel.

Which is exactly what it is for...I'm lost...

>What we need to do is introduce them to the
>OOC community as early as possible, since what makes people
>stick to a game is as much the OOC stuff as the in game
>stuff.

The CF forum is there...the Dio's forum is there...the #dangeroom exists...All of these ARE community. The only difference I see you proposing is to shove it in their face first thing. I honestly don't see that making nearly the difference that you do.

>My suggestion is this. Either we need to introduce a tutor
>system into the game, where the people who answer yes to the
>"New to Carrionfields question" get assigned an OOC tutor on
>AIM or MSN (or an in game way to chat to them in an OOC
>manner).

I have ZERO interest in this. I don't even want to think of how many complaints I get because somebody says 'yes', and gets an OOC tutor who then never responds/stopped playing two months ago/etc.

>The other suggestion came from Lokain in dangeroom,
>which is an offial chat room on the official page. Where you
>can discuss and chat both in game and out of game stuff, not
>limited to the basic questions that the newbie channel offer.

Yet another thing for the Immortals to monitor, yay. A place that turns into the WoW channels that everyone I know of who plays the game...turns OFF! "LFG 35 Evil!".

>Ive picked up 3 or 4 people and added them to AIM, when they
>posted on QHCF or officials and helped them along. I
>introduced them to the ooc community, helped them with
>suggestions on how to gear and where to find stuff suitable
>for the class. I helped them find areas, general locations,
>suggestions for ranking places. Essentially a much more
>specific help than the newbie channel offer. But even more
>imporant.. the social aspect of chatting.

Great! YOU are actually building the community. Very few people actually do that. I still don't see why there needs to be a place for this IN the game.

>I know alot of imms are against the whole
>OOC/AIM/MSN/Dangeroom thing, but it is AIM, MSN and Dangeroom
>that is the reason this game is still alive. If not for the
>ooc connections and community aspect CF would be dead and gone
>years ago. If a chat room is added to the official page, it
>must be possible to log in without registering an account.

I don't see us adding a chatroom. The Community exists. People don't seem to have a problem finding it here, on Dio's or in #dangeroom.

You rock.

n/t

I see many people talking about how we can get people to try this game, but none who talk about how to actually KEEP the players who try it. CF is a cold place if all OOC communication is the newbie channel.

.

That is fine I guess. Just hate to see the game slowly dying

You make a really good case for OOC aspects. We need more players, I am willing to do some flyering if staff makes good flyers. The ones that were posted suck.
In fact I'm probably not going to play much until we start driving for noobs.

The issue is that the no-OOC thing is so ingrained in the CF-admins thinking through.. what.. 15 years of this game being up and running. Its not going to be easy for them to get out of that way of thinking, and embrace the OOC aspect as part of the game.

Would be that I could help people out when I wasn't mudding.

Yes, one of the advantage of such a room would be that alot of people would hang out in it even when offline. Which means that if an interested new player logs on, there is a good chance there is someone about to answer his questions.

I like the idea. I don't think the staff will get behind it. It's a logistical nightmare and oversight for them. But also, they cling to their unified views on things until they are forced not to. And it's always been that out of game social groups are bad. #dangeroom is bad. Even though, it's really not bad for the game, in fact without it I imagine they would be down quite a few players.

I agree, without the outside social aspect, there really isn't anyway to hold someone. I already feel the pull of WoW because all of my friends that got me started here are playing there. We can talk and play together unlike here.

My suggestion would be to just start doing this on your own, get anyone to offer to help you can and set it up yourself.

I cant do it on my own, since it would require a button on the official page. You need to grab the newbie and push him into the social aspect as soon as he logs into the game the first time. A chat room on the official page would also be a nice way for people contemplating playing this game to get in touch with the community and ask questions, even before they log in the first time. Besides, time isnt an issue really. This is more important than rewriting that area, because quite frankly this must be done ASAP. The lower the playerbase, the less chance it is that we will get a player to "stick with it".

I dont think the imms will get behind it either honestly. They are way to set on the OOC = Bad as you mentioned.

>They have a developed social aspect to it.

As dysfunctional and annoying as it is, what do you call Dio's?

>With the introduction of the new and improved
>newbie channel, we finally got a tool to help out newbies
>beyond level 10 which was awesome.

*flex*

>that you will find that a good portion of the players play the
>game because of the social community aspect, and not because
>they find the game awesome fun.

Agreed. If I had no one with which to discuss "cf stuff" then I'm not sure I'd stick with it as much as I have. But then I'm a sucker for theory crafting.

>introduce a tutor
>system into the game, where the people who answer yes to the
>"New to Carrionfields question" get assigned an OOC tutor on
>AIM or MSN (or an in game way to chat to them in an OOC
>manner).

Who approves potential tutors? What are the requirements? Would these be mortals, or potentially heroimms?

Consider the types of question a newbie would ask his tutor, in whatever system you're envisioning. Why couldn't that be asked on the newbie channel?

>which is an offial chat room on the official page. Where you
>can discuss and chat both in game and out of game stuff, not
>limited to the basic questions that the newbie channel offer.

So like a chat room equivalent of the OT board? I'd be on board with that. OTOH message boards are much simpler to police. The potential for abuse with a real-time chat board seems "high" to say the least.

Now, obviously these kinds of abuses already take place in "non-official" chat rooms. But when it's "official" that means the staff has to police it. And that's time they could be spending doing something else.

>>They have a developed social aspect to it.
>
>As dysfunctional and annoying as it is, what do you call
>Dio's?
>

Dio's is a forum, and offer an excellent source of information though the boards and the wiki. However its not interactive enaugh, and its not mentioned or linked in ANY way from the official page. What we need is an official way to get new players introduced to the community at the same time as they log on the first time.


>>With the introduction of the new and improved
>>newbie channel, we finally got a tool to help out newbies
>>beyond level 10 which was awesome.
>
>*flex*
>
>>that you will find that a good portion of the players play
>the
>>game because of the social community aspect, and not because
>>they find the game awesome fun.
>
>Agreed. If I had no one with which to discuss "cf stuff" then
>I'm not sure I'd stick with it as much as I have. But then
>I'm a sucker for theory crafting.
>

This is the essence of it essentially. If you do not get people straight into the social aspect, as someone else mentioned, the game will feel cold and empty. This result in someone logging in perhaps making it though the academy before they leave and never return.

>>introduce a tutor
>>system into the game, where the people who answer yes to the
>>"New to Carrionfields question" get assigned an OOC tutor on
>>AIM or MSN (or an in game way to chat to them in an OOC
>>manner).
>
>Who approves potential tutors? What are the requirements?
>Would these be mortals, or potentially heroimms?

To be honest I like the idea of an official chat room more than the tutor idea, and this question about requirements is also part of the problem. Imms just have to trust that the tutor does what he signed up to be. The requirement could be as simple as "respected veteran members of the community".

>
>Consider the types of question a newbie would ask his tutor,
>in whatever system you're envisioning. Why couldn't that be
>asked on the newbie channel?

Because if it digress into chatter that answer questions in more specific ways its immediatly nuked. Newbie channel is for game play questions, not questions like "Where can I find nice lowbie gear for my warrior?" Alot of people would say that they should go out there an find out themselves, because that is how you learn. BUT it is also how you push people away. Additionally the tutor wont only answer game play questions. He will be a contact outside the game, an entrance portal into the rest of the community.

>
>>which is an offial chat room on the official page. Where you
>>can discuss and chat both in game and out of game stuff, not
>>limited to the basic questions that the newbie channel
>offer.
>
>So like a chat room equivalent of the OT board? I'd be on
>board with that. OTOH message boards are much simpler to
>police. The potential for abuse with a real-time chat board
>seems "high" to say the least.

Not any higher than dangeroom for example offers now, dangeroom may have a bad reputation but I LOVE hanging out there. Its fun to discuss everything and nothing with people that have a bonding interest. Abuse? Not really, the veterans and semi new players have already formed their OOC connections, and if they wish to share information they can do so already. This would help the newbie who try to find some gear, or get to the past a great deal. Not to mention as a hot-line into the community aspect as I said earlier.

>
>Now, obviously these kinds of abuses already take place in
>"non-official" chat rooms. But when it's "official" that
>means the staff has to police it. And that's time they could
>be spending doing something else.

Spent doing what? Improving a game that slowly die because we cant change our thinking? The game still operates as it did 10 years ago, its time to more forward and try out this new thing called social community. (Or rather, we already have a social community, we just need it to be easier access to it for complete new players)

Just to add my testimonial to the mix: Nowadays, if I didn't have OOC friends to joke around and talk CF with, to help and be helped by, I wouldn't be playing. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

The way I see it, all the ooc cheating the imms fear happens anyway. It's just more underhanded and low key, so no one can really be pinned for it. This means all the advantages are in the hands of people who secretly perma with their friends. The second fear is that roleplay is degraded by too much ooc-ness. I disagree, as the game remains 100% IC and anonymous so long as it's your character speaking.

I think opening things up socially would encourage a lot more funness in general. If it doesn't encourage a flood of noobs to pk, it will certainly keep the community tight like QHCF.net has over the years.

Yhorian

OOC cheating happens and its not something you can do a thing about. Its part of the game, and the imms just have to accept it. I will go as far as to say that OOC contacts is sort of demonized in CF, since it imply cheating. It should be encouraged and helped along, not the other way around. Everything these days are about the social aspect of a thing, like facebook, myspace, all MMO's, twitter. This would only be taking the game out of the 20th century and into the 21th century. But I must point out I wish this as a seperate thing, not something in the game like a chat room.

Lets make some numbers with huge assumptions. Lets say 100 newbies logged in over the last year, and lets assume 10 of them tried it for any decent amount of time. Now lets assume 4 of them still play. I dont think im that far off. If we implement an official way to be social, im certain we could increase that number well beyond 4.

I hate this idea.

This is all very true.

Thumbs up.

At a minimum, you should add a link to qhcf.net and the diku wiki
(diku.qhcf.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl) to the Help section.

This has always been one of my greatest conflicts with CF.

I know no one IRL who plays (Although over the past 14 years I've convinced 5 different people to try it, none of them were into mudding.) I don't do Dangerroom, I don't contact people on Aim. Mostly out of respect for the Imm's wish not to 'cheat'. I think people with OOC connections have a HUGE advantage at this game and it bugs me. But why do I keep coming back? Because every now and then after a year or so absence I'd call up Dioxide's forum, or these, and I'd see the people who take part in the forums and I convince myself 'Yeah, there's a community there.' But, there's really not for most people.

On days when I'm really into a character, it's not unheard of for me to put in 4-6 hours a day on a toon. That's 4-6 hours a day spending time with people I can't tell I'm getting married on Saturday, or can't tell I've had a bad day, or can't even explain I have to go afk because there's an earthquake outside because it's an rp mud.

When my current toon dies I have to pretend I don't know people I laugh and joke with every day today with the next. I go back to knowing zero people in the game. If I were the morose sort I'd think it's sort of depressing really.

The OOC community (as little as I participate) is what keeps me coming back. The game's fun and all, but I can only start over with zero friends so many times before I just decide to go hang out with real people who won't delete any day now. :-)

I'd love it if we made something like this official.

My two cents.

nt

I don't even play anymore, but I can say that when I did I always had a least one, at most three or four, people that I knew OOC and could communicate with. Even if it's just to gloat that you pwned a group in arial city, or bitch about some perceived OP combo, it's important to have some way to relate this. We're all social creatures, and on some level even the most immersed RP'er, who utterly shuns OOC intrusions into his/her gametime, likes to make contact with like-minded people.


I understand the hesitation the staff has always had. But, I'd propose this thought: You all have each other and no one can say it's wrong, but the players don't have that perk without it being questionably OOC/cheaterish.


Back when I first came to the MUD, I had a couple friends who I knew in real life and we all played it and talked about it. That's what got us hooked, I think. Having tried a few other MUDs over the years, I never felt any attachment. The whole experience was stark and cold by comparison. Anyway, I'm droning on.

Back in the day when I started playing, I did so with a friend who I maintained the social aspect of it with. Later on when that friend stopped I was already hooked, and I proceeded to seek out AIM friends. These days its less likely that a new player have a friend who start playing with him, which makes fixing a way to get in touch with the playerbase in an OOC manner more important. Forums is one way, but a much less effecive way than real time chatting would be. Im pretty certain we would increase the number of people who actually stay with the game, if we fix a way for them to "get into the social aspect" earlier. Perhaps even to the point where we will manage to steadily increase the playerbase (Also known as recruit more players than the number who quit).

A great suggestion for the game.

Without the social aspect, the game is as good as solitaire - you're not Rambo unless you can show someone. The fact that the "other website" is almost shunned when it's a prime place for logs/questions/etc is bad enough. Don't get me started on all the changes that have gone into the game that kick newbies in the ass (try explaining to the mage why he gets owned by the berserker without ABS - the last newbie I tried to explain ABS to said 'That's retarded' and deleted).

The game needs to evolve and it's been evolving in the wrong direction for a long time.

nt