I'm just curious because I've never done a lot of the in-depth searching that seems required to find the a/b/s sleeks. I've played shifters a long while ago (and an invoker) without the wands and it was very hit or miss. Meaning that I either killed the opponents in 2 rounds or died in 2 rounds.

While that's kind of fun sometimes, I'm just wondering in today's game if it's even remotely workable.

For the record, I tend to do most of my characters with a lot of independence so I don't want to have to rely on groups for everything.

To make things more fun, I feel you need to pick defense for at least one focus. From what I've seen and experienced to a certain degree, going offense and defense (in either order) can make for a good time at almost any level.

I feel that the change in the wand system discouraged certain foci choices that should be more rare or risky. Offense/air is one of those choices.

It's off topic, but water focus can be tough in the mid-levels without an amphibious form. Perhaps my area knowledge is bad, but it's difficult to rank using your 3rd tier (2nd tier from Imm perspective) form. I could only find one area where the XP was decent-good, but that place can get crazy.

The real question is: Is it worth it to _you_?

And since you have to ask other people about it, the answer is likely no.

because I don't know where a single A/B/S wand is at.

Really? I'm pretty sure I know where several of them are, just from following around mages I was trying to kill. It almost makes me want to play a mage, just because I think I already know where many of the wands are. Almost.

Now if I can only get some free time. Damned students wanting quizzes graded and demanding help. What's up with that? :P

Seriously, like most folks I tend to play in my comfort zone and that means I can do rangers in my sleep, druids when I can find a religion I can tolerate and bards when I can manage to be creative.

But mages seem like a completely different world because I tend to not prep very much at all and mages seem to absolutely require it just to survive. The last mages I did never prepped beyond what they could do for themselves and were a bit frustrating at times as a result. :)

But maybe it's time to try another one just for the heck of it. I think the last time I did a shifter, it was an air/offense in Sylvan.

I'm curious what makes a religion intolerable for you? Sorry to derail the thread.

I think for me, when I try to play a druid, the religion has to be truly nature-centric with a good deal of room for independent interpretation. Few, if any of the currently active gods seem to have a truly nature-centric focus though there have been some in the past (e.g. Amaranthe, Sebeok, Innis) and the few with some potential in their spheres(like storms, water, etc..) for that have restrictions that make a druid problematic (Padwei, Baerinka) or the actual descriptions of the gods seem like deities who wouldn't really care about nature at all (civilized palaces, greed, etc..).

I've even tried creating my own religion where the druid worshipped spirits of natural things (e.g. talked to tree spirits, wind spirits, etc..) but as you probably know, trying to do your own religion as a mortal can be an exercise in frustration when there's no one to oversee you and your empowerment. I actually had some success initially with the approach above but then got stuck for 2-3weeks without getting the second level of empowerment or any indication that it would ever come. And that kind of frustration isn't really much fun and that's kind of the whole purpose of playing CF for me.

By the way, I have had tattoo'd PC's (non-empowered) in ages past, so it's not like it's impossible, it's just me being picky about what I'm willing to do to fit within what I think a ranger or druid should be like.

really.

Do anything but complain or naysay lately?

It doesn't seem like it.

If asnwer "no" means compaint, then yes, I complain.

Shifter are already one of the boring classes with high deletion rate.
Without wands it's reasonable to expect that rate be improving.

Have you had anything semi-positive to say in over a year... I don't think so.

Hey, look at your PBF comments over the last couple years :)

.

With the backwards n.

Two of my more successful chars were shifters who didn't use wands. These were Frearrir and Gohum. Frearrir probably had most PK wins of my characters and Gohum was a tough powerhouse with his walrus form that whomped tough rager names of the time like Kaisse, Kragathian and Ysaloerye. Thus, I can state that shifters without wands are doable.

You just have to play smart and pick your fights.

You won't be winning fights agaisnt skilled/stacked villagers or decked out/prepped using elites.

But you can definately still be dangerous. Cabal raids you will need to hit and run a bit to give yourself time to heal.

Might be a good idea to go defense minor (for a regen form), or instead of offense, take utility for a bit better fighting survivability. ( You won't deal as much damage, but you will parry better and dodge better to survive a bit more.)

With no wands, I would suggest Utility Major/Defense Minor.

The forms should compliment your playstyle and you can be pretty self sufficent solo. Will make exploring for wands pretty easy too and in time you will find enough wands.

Later.

If the question had been ---

Lightmage, would YOU play a shifter without wands, I don't think the answer would have been the same ;)

I actually just tried this. Yes, it can be done. The downside is that you have to have the right form combination and be willing to pass on a lot of straight-up fights. I didn't get the form combination I wanted so I abandoned that character.

It is a lot harder to pull off any mage without wands.

I don't think it is possible to play a mage and not find at least a few wands though. You might not find your sleek set if you are new to the game, but anyone should at least find a few wands they can reliably get.

I have played lots of shifters where it was near to impossible for me to get sleeks. My most successful shifters could not even obtain their wand sets, so I used limited wands all the time.

Harkan comes to mind. Eagle/Dolphin- I was pretty much useless on land and just gave up on my sleek black fight after a few attempts.

Don't shifters get castable shield now?

And non-sleek aura wands/talismans aren't that hard to find.

So really we're talking about "shifter without barrier".

...limited barrier at least 25% of the time.

But yeah, I'm playing a shifter right now that didn't have reliable sleeks until about 100 hrs into the char (I hit hero range in 45?hrs?) and I've been pushing a 50% PK ratio or better.

Lightmage/Xanth is right though, you have to have the right forms.

I would go defense/utility instead of utility defense. While I do really love the utility enlivens a wandless shifter can use scales of the dragon and shell of the armadillo enliven to good effect. That extra bit of damage reduction really makes a difference.

-----Abernyte