Changes to evil healers were supposed to fix good-evil "balance", but as a side affect, they made it much harder to explore for evil-based groups.

Now my idea:

Make all healers work at their max in an area explore.

It shouldn't break good-evil balance because fights/raids normally do not happen in exploration areas and it will fix evil "exploration" problem as well.
We already have some tweaks to area explore like:
- your corpse returns directly to your inventory
- better regeneration (at least in some areas)
can we add this one:
- All healers regardless of their alignment can use max "healing" capabilities like: full healing, sanctify room for everybody, etc (as normally only good healers have after changes).

Evil healers can do this anywhere with Dark Pact.

Which I know isn't the answer you want, but, there it is.

I believe it only works for a single person.
And I actually do not ask to make it easier for evil healers in PK (eq "anywhere") but rather for exploration.
For exploration it is ofter required to heal a group, not just a single person. I seriously don't like the idea of making secondary characters in the Fort just to visit Dragon Places, Yezkon, Arangird/Mines, Hell (well no goodies there).

...not to bash your answers, but seriously have ya had it used on you? Everytime you get healed you either lose like 2-3 saves vs spell, 1-2 strength, or morale. It's not uncommon to be mid fight and either auto-flee because you're panicked, drop your weapons because you're sitting at -15 strength, or have extremely negative saves.

I would *never* have the lead "tank" in the Inferno have Dark Pact because chances are they'd flee and wipe the group or drop their weapons (which is actually the least worry) or have negative saves to the point they instantly die.

On any change that makes "Team evil" easier and more viable.

Game is balanced with the idea that evils are all selfish bastards, and don't work as well together as goods do.

This rarely ...RARELY happens. Few players are either capable, or willing, to play evils that way (that I have seen, at least. The few that do really stand out as outstanding characters). *Especially* when Phat lewt is to be had.

When phat lewt is to be had, the rationalizations come out, and Team evil plays as nice as 6 year old girls playing barbie, as long as everyone gets some phat lewt.


I am against any change that would further encourage this. If you want to explore an aweful lot with a char above fights/raids. Role a goodie/neutral and get full use of goodie healers.

If you want evil healers to be as useful as goodie healers in exploration...just so you have an easier time getting to the phat lewt that will let you pound down on some goodie chumps better.....Cry me a river.

On any change that makes "Team evil" easier and more viable.

Because you're an ass and want evil players to suffer?

Game is balanced with the idea that evils are all selfish
bastards, and don't work as well together as goods do.

The game was never balanced this way. Moreover, it's impossible to do with the current setup.
If you really want to balance selfish evil bastards who don't work together with a good-based gangs you will have to make each evil as strong as 3-4-5 goodies combined.

This rarely ...RARELY happens. Few players are either capable,
or willing, to play evils that way (that I have seen, at
least. The few that do really stand out as outstanding
characters). *Especially* when Phat lewt is to be had.

Because it's unplayable. Those who "look" like they do... in reality just avoid gangs, logging out when things are bad, not defending and are generally fair-weather players. And you can't really blame them because they can't compete with gangs as a solo person (except liches).

I am against any change that would further encourage this. If
you want to explore an aweful lot with a char above
fights/raids. Role a goodie/neutral and get full use of goodie
healers.

That's exactly why I propose this change. To avoid people making secondary exploration characters in opposite cabals. This will only introduce more cabal hopping and we have already more than enough of that ####.

If you want evil healers to be as useful as goodie healers in
exploration...just so you have an easier time getting to the
phat lewt that will let you pound down on some goodie chumps
better.....Cry me a river.

I don't get your point.
You don't to want to allow evils do exploration? What is the point?
And specifically for Hell: goodies can't go there, and you don't want evils go there as well. So who will actually go there?

I don't know where this evil must always be bitches towards each others comes from? Who decided that is suddenly good roleplay for evil?

I want to be a baby killer but loyal to my friends or even the empire. Which would be much more logical, backstabbing would probably be pretty damn rare within a brainwashing empire that requires a blood oath.

Its rediculous that people have begun to belive that evils have to be backstabbing bastards. Evil does not equate being an ass, and generally totally untrustworthy. Evils can have "friends", but they stay "friends" for different reasons than goodies. If one of my evil characters see something exceptional in someone I will go pretty far to obtain a measure of friendship. Friend is probably not the right word to describe evil relationships, since it implies quite a large amount of trust.

Even the most wickedly evil men of our times have had companions that he trusted (and liked) to quite some extent. Evil characters CAN indulge in pleasant activites, like sitting down in the bar and having a relaxed chat and a beer with a herald without speaking about the maiming and destruction he just did.

I think this whole thing has evolved from the Team-Evil discussions that has popped up from time to time. Resulting in a false view that evils can't, or rather should not, be friendly towards eachother.

1)
>The game was never balanced this way. Moreover, it's impossible to do with the current setup.

I hate to argue with the great dwoggurd. But You do realize Empire is *SUPPOSED* to be set up this way. And it is not impossible to do with the current setup, I've seen a number of characters pull it off great.

I'm not saying they can never work together. You claiming that I did, is you trying to pull up a straw-man argument. There is a middle ground, however, between All evils must be 100% loners, and "Let's all gather and sing Koombayah...oh, I mean EEEVILLL koomayah, And play barbies together!"

My contention is that most evil characters (and the players behind them) get far too lazy, and are too close to the floofi-hippie-commune-let's all just get along-together end of things. I agree. It can be hard to play it closer to being really EVIL, because most human beings just aren't evil.

My argument, is that your suggested change would make it easier for players to be lazy, and be too chummy with each other, making them move furthor towards the "Let's mudsexxorize in the inn together" end of the spectrum.



2)
>You don't to want to allow evils do exploration? What is the point?

That wasn't my point. Are *YOU* saying that evils can't expore now? You just want it made EASIER. They can do it now, I'm not saying change it so they can't.

I'm saying, I disagree with you on where along the "solo-killer<->inn mudsexxor" continuum evils should be held to as a standard of "decent evil roleplay".

Am I claiming you want them to be full on "Inn-rper-lets all get along". no.
But don't claim that I want them to be full on "never group for any reason".


My point is. Now, most rpers of evil chars are too far to the floofi end. Your change will move it furthor to the floofi end.

Why is it bad for evils to have a harder time working together towards a goal in cf than goods? I mean, they have ap's. They have Liches. They have mummies. They have black sanc. They can kill anything they way. Goods have so many mandatory rp stirctures...that if they do not follow they loose specs/skills/spells....why is it bad to have evils have *SOME* minor, tiny, miniscule semblance of an rp stricture?


I've seen a goodie use 2. targetting, and accidentally kill a neut mob. He got turned neut, and traitored (super vuln wrath)...because he didn't rp that he was "sorry" right afterward.

What do *YOU* have about players of good chars having some bennies to being good...like perhaps...making it slightly easier to explore.

You are confusing evil with psychopathic. If I'm an evil person with no morals working with other people with no morals, and us working together is a huge benefit why would I go out of my way to mess that up. Think the Mafia, every now and then there is a killing or full out war but they aren't killing every other mafioso just for ####s and giggles all day. All evil in the game as foaming at the mouth demons who can't help but kill everything around them is a very narrow view. Plus it's not Evils fault that Good is dumb...

If so, were you fracking High when you did?

I wrote.......

I'm not saying they can never work together. ... There is a middle ground, however, between All evils must be 100% loners, and "Let's all gather and sing Koombayah...oh, I mean EEEVILLL koomayah, And play barbies together!"


And in response you wrote....

.....but they aren't killing every other mafioso just for ####s and giggles all day. All evil in the game as foaming at the mouth demons who can't help but kill everything around them is a very narrow view




Now read those two statements again. And once more. If you don't see why your reply to my post is, well...off....let your doctor know your perscriptions are off.

To say that it wouldn't affect the good-evil game balance because fights don't happen in explore areas is just laughable. It is blatantly obvious that making it easier for evils to get high end gear that works outside of those explore areas will indeed affect game balance.

Also, I agree with the point about evil being teamy when it comes to gear gathering.

That comes from one of the few players to attempt to buck this trend. I also probably played more evil chars than neutral or good (though fewer than neutral & good put together).

I don't understand why Evil's have to be the keystone cops. If they are honestly balancing the whole game based on this principal it's horrible game design. Goodies already have a much easier time getting good gear, have much better support classes, if it's still a big problem then buff goodies some more. Nerfing evil healers to the point where they aren't any fun is just lame and IMHO just lazy game design.

I find this argument so much more convincing because it is cyan.

Because that's exactly what I was thinking, too.

~

Evil healers just aren't as fun anymore. Most times I'd rather have a bard with me.