When did CF become this giant bunch of pussies? When did it become "lame" to try and defeat your enemy? When did looting things that were way better than your own things, or super powerful items become so ghastly that people would rant for hours about it?

I'm all for sportsmanship, but #### that if it interferes with RP. I'm sick of Empire and Fortress characters treating each other like they are ole poker buddies, and decked lowbie characters crying for hours because their troll amulet got looted.

WTF? Am I insane?

People whining in game, or people whining out of game about the whining?



Some people thrive on causing others to whine. It's part of the game. When I was younger this was my sole purpose. The reason I play the game now is to help underdogs and to make veterans whine. I dislike a lot of you... and it makes me happy to make you unhappy.


I support whining 100%.

nt

To answer your question, I'd have to say that what's worse is people who take pleasure in making other people unhappy.

Hurray for the anonymous internet!

Aarn

Having played a few morts recently, my experience has been that CF has matured.

While I've only been pk'd a few times, I've yet to get full looted. Additionally, the people I've fought with have been very willing to to RP with me afterwords. I can remember times in the last 12 years where that wasn't always the case.

You're exaggerating.

>When did it become "lame" to try and defeat your enemy?

Never? In the general case, people don't bitch when their enemies try to defeat them. It's specific behaviors that set people off.

>When did looting things that were way better than your own things...

Never? In the general case, people don't bitch when someone kills them and takes something that's an upgrade.

>or super powerful items become so ghastly that people would rant for
>hours about it?

This is not new. Graatch unicorn pendant log anyone?

Usually people don't bitch about this because it's covered under bullet point right above this one. That is to say, usually a super powerful item is taken because it represents an upgrade over what the victor is wearing. What people do sometimes complain about is when their super powerful items are looted by someone who can't use them and can't reasonably expect to trade them for anything. In that case they're typically only doing it to be punitive.

>I'm all for sportsmanship, but #### that if it interferes with
>RP.

Solution: don't write roles that require you to be unsportsmanlike, then there will never be a conflict between the two.

When you do write a role that requires you to be unsportsmanlike, it amounts to you deciding that treating other people in a sportsmanlike manner is less important than you getting to play that specific role. Which is...lame.

>I'm sick of Empire and Fortress characters treating each
>other like they are ole poker buddies

Poker buddies typically don't kill each other.

>and decked lowbie characters crying for hours because their troll
>amulet got looted.

This would indeed be annoying, assuming it actually happened. Most likely there were extenuating circumstances that gave rise to the whining, other than just "my troll amulet got looted".

>This would indeed be annoying, assuming it actually happened.
>Most likely there were extenuating circumstances that gave
>rise to the whining, other than just "my troll amulet got
>looted".

A year ago I would have agreed with you, but lately some people have been really unreasonable about it.

I've seen people go on a bitchrant about having one piece of gear taken from them several times... a day of about three of those in an hour is what inspired my last post urging people to whine less.

Well, okay, maybe it's true that baseless whining is on the rise. But I still think the original poster still exaggerates the extent of the problem.

It is not "normative" for people to whine when they get killed and the victor upgrades his gear at their expense.

It is not "normative" for people to cry "lame" when their enemies try to defeat them.

etc. etc.

>Never? In the general case, people don't bitch when someone kills them
>and takes something that's an upgrade.

This does not jive with my experience since returning to the game.

Aarn

When you treat the player disrespectfully, all you are going to accomplish is that people will avoid you. That's indeed boring.

Ofcourse, everyone prefers the best, but you have to be ready when the worst happens.

I tend to not loot much at all. Especially if someone does something gutsy and interesting like defend/retrieve against multiple raiders. I think if you lay down a massive loot/sac against those people, they'll stop doing things like that, and I'll get bored. But even outside of those situations, I tend to take what I need and leave my replacements. You can call that "rosey fields" or whatever, but I think it makes the game more active and fun.

Now. When I get full looted, especially by someone that I looted as discussed above (and even more when I get ganked by someone that I looted as discussed above), my tendancy is to get angry and throw a couple empty threats. I know this comes across as whining, and I'm getting better at resisting the urge to do it.

But to sum it all up, I think the game is more fun and more dynamic if people don't loot a ton of things they don't need from their enemies. I'd rather fight a guy three times in a single login than fight him once and have him rage delete or drop link.

You're missing the point though. It's not that you should go full-loot everyone, and if you don't you're a wuss.

This game is BUILT around the concept that you kill people and take nice things from them. The way I see it, corpseguard exists to make sure the victors get to beat the vultures to the spoils. It's purpose isn't so that the one who died can get everything back. It's fine if you use it that way, but you don't get to expect it.

It all comes down to entitlement. Stop feeling entitled. You lost the fight, it's not even your gear anymore. If you get any of it back, it's because the one who whacked you is being gracious. If someone screws you on looting, get even through an IC measure.

Aarn

When Yhorian full-sac'd me?

'Full loot his ass'.

I still love you.

Hey, I said I'm getting better about the post-PK threats :)

I do full loot those people back. I just need to consistently resist the urge to feel, as Aarn would call it, "entitled" to the same treatment I gave them.

My thought is basically: if Twist can post a log of Hunsobo whining about a full loot/sac, then I may as well cop to a similar flaw of my own.

I can honestly say that the pussies in CF are a large part of what makes the game UNfun enough for me to not play for the last year or more.

>I can honestly say that the pussies in CF are a large part of
>what makes the game UNfun enough for me to not play for the
>last year or more.

Sack up and PK those people, you puss! You're making the problem worse! :P

The more I kill them the more they whine, and the less fun I have...

Stunna: I just looted Daevryn's Jeweled Broadsword, and he called me bad names. That reminds me of my father, and now I'm going to play Eve.

If you get one of these:


FortGuy tells you 'You took my ring and you can't even use it? What about my sword and my breadz?'

You tell Fortguy 'That's right. I took them from your carcass after I gutted you like the swine you are. If you want the ring, you will have to kill me for it.'


Turn that negative into a positive by hording the coveted gear of a gear-hoarder! Then they will have to try mixing it up, which = more fun and respect.

Hell, I'd often give people good gear just for being ballsy enough to tangle when I knew they'd rather not. That being said, yeah, in the last few years the amount of gear bitching has gone into maximum overdrive. The flipside is that you are generally going to get most of your own gear back when you die now, so it's not all bad.

Completely agree. I came back from a multi-year hiatus, and suddenly it's like everyone is ultra-sensitive. The level of complaining and whining that goes in to looting things from people is way beyond absurd.

I think it's great that people don't full-loot all the time, and having been on the receiving end of non-full-looting, when I expected otherwise, is really gratifying. But the way it's bled over in to a sense of entitlement (and the ensuing thinly-vieled OOC whining) has a tendency to make me ill.

CF used to tout in its advertising that "You may have to kill your neighbor for that nice sword." Boy have we fallen a long way from that.

Aarn

No, I agree.

I like that sportsmanship is generally better than it was a decade ago, but now it's gone too far into emasculation.