So I've been playing a poisoner recently and I've run into a quite a few things that hurt the playability of them. The biggest of which is the fact that you have to brew the poison immediately before using it. There's no option to pull out a vial apply it and get to work, you have to have the ingredients brew it (20-30 second lag), apply it, and then you can use it. If I want to knock someone out they pretty much have to be staying for that entire time and whenever I've tryed it the opportunity has usually passed by the time I'm ready to take advantage of it. And you can just forget about making use of poison on the case that someones coming after you.

The second problem I have is that one of the most useful of poisons is almost impossible to use unless you cross train to plant and get very lucky. Emetic poison is the closest thing to normal poison and yet you can't use it like normal poison. I could understand this if this was an assassin or warrior we were talking about, but with thieves their hardly the most dangerous of classes (obviously yes they can be dangerous but compared to other classes not really). Also both mind control and knock out I can understand from restricting them from being poisoned onto weapons, just don't understand why emetic is as well.

Why not keep a handful of each poison vials on you at all times?

Emetic poison is really really powerful, so the difficulty in applying it (and the cross training to plant) is by design for balance reasons. You may get some mileage out of emetic grenades.

Because they eventually rot away, I'm not sure how long they last. In any case I don't really see the reason for them rotting away, I'd be perfectly happy with that part if they didn't.

As for emetic, it just would be nice if there was at least a way for you to use it on NPCs. Also add a slightly more potent then normal poison to be able to use on blades I'd be happy.

Look if you want to be conservative all you need to do is keep 2 knock outs on you brewed all the time, after they are out you can brew to your hearts delight. So what if they evaporate just brew more, its not like knock out ingredients are either expensive or hard to come by on some roads.

There's a lot of steps involved in making poisons, it seems like an unnecessary extra burden that they evaporate.

>There's a lot of steps involved in making poisons, it seems
>like an unnecessary extra burden that they evaporate.

Agreed as well I don't think I've noticed an echo for poison fading from a weapon yet, sees there really should be.

It also came to mind that a few abilities have been missing from the poisoning path, for instance the ability to detect poison and clean them of it. Also while the whole multiple ingredient brewing is interesting there's no real way to see that one recipe is better then the other.

I don't know about for fear poison, but I know for certain there's an echo when neurological poison wears off on a weapon. Also, you can detect poisons as a poisoner, but you have to know how to make the poison, and look at said item. Cleaning things is a no-go currently though, I think.

>I don't know about for fear poison, but I know for certain
>there's an echo when neurological poison wears off on a
>weapon. Also, you can detect poisons as a poisoner, but you
>have to know how to make the poison, and look at said item.
>Cleaning things is a no-go currently though, I think.

Ah good good, for some reason it didn't show up when I first had tried, perhaps I just looked at the wrong thing. Should also work for normal poisons like the poison spell and such.

Also have to say that it's inordinately hard to use inhaled poisons I have both apply and inhaled mastered and it still seems to fail half the time.

This is a useful tidbit to know as it's not a skill you need to practice. If you suspect your poison is about to wear off you can just clean it and then reapply.

The vials last a long while but aren't indefinite.

I agree that the mechanics behind concoction are too black-box. There's no way to know, even though vigorous application, how or why ingredients you explore for are better than ones you can find, only that they are 'better'.

For instance I'm pretty certain there's no ingredients out there, or ingredient combination, for neurological poison to either apply it's varied effects over time faster or instantly. If this were possible it'd be viable to take poisoner up to this particular poison and then go binder or thug. It would also give a better reason to intentionally bug allies to give you their weaponry to poison for them before raiding a cabal.

>This is a useful tidbit to know as it's not a skill you need
>to practice. If you suspect your poison is about to wear off
>you can just clean it and then reapply.
>
>The vials last a long while but aren't indefinite.
>
>I agree that the mechanics behind concoction are too
>black-box. There's no way to know, even though vigorous
>application, how or why ingredients you explore for are better
>than ones you can find, only that they are 'better'.
>
>For instance I'm pretty certain there's no ingredients out
>there, or ingredient combination, for neurological poison to
>either apply it's varied effects over time faster or
>instantly. If this were possible it'd be viable to take
>poisoner up to this particular poison and then go binder or
>thug. It would also give a better reason to intentionally bug
>allies to give you their weaponry to poison for them before
>raiding a cabal.

Even if this where the case it would hardly make poisoner thieves very dangerous, they'd still get owned on by pretty much every other class. It would make them useful to have around but still not dangerous, a thief with uber poison on a blade is still not going to get but a couple shots in against any combat class and the chances that one of those hits transfers the poison is nearly negligible.

Also it's not even just a matter of not knowing why one is better then the other it's the issue that on some of them there is no way to even find out. sure you can poison some food with knockout and see how long it knocks you out but with the farther on poisons that's not even possible. I'd be perfectly happy with just being able to compare vials to each other, just like any class can do with their main weapon, why leave poisoners out of that?

I'd also like to reiterate the fact that inhaled poison is nearly useless, there's no way that anyone could count on it in anyway, i can understand with mind control the reasoning behind making it hard but with apply and inhaled mastered out knocking someone out should be a cinch. The harm of making it this way? not much, the thief would only really gain some time to steal a thing or two before they had to leave before they woke up because even if they attacked they'd wake up and most likely still be able to own the thief.

And now I've just tried neurological poison and have to say while the descriptions hints at some pretty debilitating effects thats hardly the case I ran around for it's entirety and while I did end up going the wrong way now and then it hardly hindered me as it only seems to do it like 5% of the time, I also didn't experience any change to my vision. I will most likely not even bother using this poison anymore...