Could someone in the know compare and contrast fist and riddle? To me it's like... both keep your weapon in your hand about the same when maladicted, but riddle helps with bleeding damage and fist helps with disarm.

Also, if you were going to do trapping as your other legacy, which would you pick?

>> Also, if you were going to do trapping as your other legacy, which would you pick?

If I was going trapping with a mace and/or axe spec, I might take fist because it allows you to dual wield 35 lb weapons.. and for some reason there are a couple of nice 35 lb maces/axes in the game. But for another spec, definitely riddle (if I was to take one of the two).

(Be aware that riddle only helps against physical maladicts though. So it's useless against those pesky shamans etc.)

If I am not doing axe or mace, wouldn't I want fist because it does help with all kinds of maladicts? Assuming of course that they ARE equal in their aid against weapon loss due to -str.

Daevryn was saying riddle because str loss made a big difference, but doesn't fist counter that as much as riddle?

(not arguing, btw,just confused - both of you guys totally whip my ass in the PKs)

Here's the argument from both sides -

Fist let's you wield 10 extra pounds of weapons. That's cool because you can now dual wield some very nice 35lb weapons. It's also cool in that if your weapon weighs less than 13lbs (or so), you'll never drop it (because 3 str, the minimum, plus the 10lb bonus keeps it in your hand). It also combos well with trapping.

Riddle is great because you're less likely to drop your weapons from -str. It reduces the -str for maledictions. That's nice because you're less likely to lose your dual wield or primary wield from -str.

They're not equal. They're different in the mechanics of how they prevent you from dropping weapons.

Fist adds 15 lbs to your max wield (I think - it could be ten, just can't remember).

A fire giant with 25 strength without fist of the titan can wield a total of 60 lbs.

If he's wielding 60 lbs of weapons and wears +3 strength, then with riddle of the resilience, he can hold onto his weapon after -6 strength (because it get's halved, netting out to 25-(6/2)+3 = 25.

If he's wielding 60 lbs of weapons, wears +3 strength and has fist of the titan then he can take the same -6 strength reduction (because with fist you can wield 60 lbs with a 22 strength)

Bit of a tie I guess, but the giant with riddle still has a 25 strength so anything that's strength based is going to work better than the giant with fist of the titan. However, the giant with fist can take -30 malediction worth of maledictions and hold onto light weapons where the giant with riddle might not.

To muddy the waters even more, if the giant with fist of the titan wields heavier weapons (because he can - and because with trapping, it's advantageous to do so), then he's going to be dropping a weapon after -4 strength.

Daevryn and freaking Marcus say riddle

Who needs to know why?

>Fist adds 15 lbs to your max wield (I think - it could be
>ten, just can't remember).

It's 10, FYI.

>A fire giant with 25 strength without fist of the titan can
>wield a total of 60 lbs.
>
>If he's wielding 60 lbs of weapons and wears +3 strength, then
>with riddle of the resilience, he can hold onto his weapon
>after -6 strength (because it get's halved, netting out to
>25-(6/2)+3 = 25.

It's not exactly halved, but in a lot of cases it turns out to be just short of that.

However, Riddle also can make some -str maledictions less likely to land in the first place, which makes the mathematical analysis much harder. :)

>If he's wielding 60 lbs of weapons, wears +3 strength and has
>fist of the titan then he can take the same -6 strength
>reduction (because with fist you can wield 60 lbs with a 22
>strength)
>
>Bit of a tie I guess, but the giant with riddle still has a 25
>strength so anything that's strength based is going to work
>better than the giant with fist of the titan. However, the
>giant with fist can take -30 malediction worth of maledictions
>and hold onto light weapons where the giant with riddle might
>not.

This is true; if you were a light weapon character, or even any character who didn't specifically want to wield the heaviest weapons possible, I might well give the edge to Fist over Riddle for this reason.

>To muddy the waters even more, if the giant with fist of the
>titan wields heavier weapons (because he can - and because
>with trapping, it's advantageous to do so), then he's going to
>be dropping a weapon after -4 strength.

Yeah, that's also true.

Definitely the 'but you can wield even heavier weapons' factor of Fist + Trapping is nice -- but then you're either really really praying you don't get hit with any strength loss, or so ridiculously overgeared on +str that it's really costing you a lot in other areas. On the other hand, that all-damroll Fist+Trapping guy with a ridiculously heavy weapon might also be able to pincer or flurry or bash and kill you before you can get that -1 str out.

I think that riddle is better when heavier weapons are involved.

However, with the fist, you can have lighter weapons in the inventory and wield them when the heavy one drops (works with riddle too). For example, you can hold two 5 lbs silver rapiers with 3 str. Fist also has prog that prevents disarm from succeeding, but from my experience it works once in a blue moon.

I had chilling/fist sword/axe with my cloud giant Muug. Firstly, I didn't think that fist did much in preventing me to drop my heavier weapons (it did something, but not much. I dual-wielded those big two-handed mithril swords, sword of balance or something?) due to str loss or really helped against them getting disarmed. It was handy with the silver rapiers when withered to 3 str, though.

I have no personal experience on riddle.

>Could someone in the know compare and contrast fist and
>riddle? To me it's like... both keep your weapon in your hand
>about the same when maladicted, but riddle helps with bleeding
>damage and fist helps with disarm.

Probably that's not far off.

>Also, if you were going to do trapping as your other legacy,
>which would you pick?

Probably Riddle, because to use Trapping to its utmost you're going to struggle with strength loss a lot more than most characters do. Losing even one actual point of strength will probably cost you a weapon, so...

It worked well.

sd

NT