You can only entrap while blind, no other disarm move works except crescent kick.

Change Crashing so that you can't prog disarm while blind?

Can imperial tactics get the same tweak?

Yea or nay?

The gank is nothing new, though I added it because I'm mildly frustrated with it. (it's a good bit of why I haven't been logging in lately to be honest)

Making blind negate it is the easy way out. No muss, no fuss, no thinking, just start your fights with dirt kick. Not ideal, but neither is it bad either.

Let me point out that if it wasn't this and it was Kolruk and me alone, he would do one bash then sac 1. or just keep bashing, either one would have worked.

Yes it's a fire giant. But the thurible is a whip. It's kind of ridiculous that I can't hold on to a two foot hilt with a 23 strength.

No, fist of the titans isn't a viable counter legacy because ####ing fist doesn't prevent disarm 100% of the time anymore. And it's ridiculous to expect every hero, or even half the hero population of melee chars, to have cursed or nodisarm weapons. In fact, it's ridiculous, and spiderhands isn't exactly as common as fly. It's possible I would have died to this exact gank even without crashing, but losing both weapons in one round and permalagged? Fun times.


They aren't here.
Kolruk sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
Kolruk's bash injures you.
You yell 'Help! Kolruk is bashing me!'
Your smash EVISCERATES Kolruk!
Kolruk parries your smash.
A swarthy mercenary screams and attacks Kolruk!
You parry Kolruk's chop.
As you parry Kolruk's attack, he strikes at your weapon!
Kolruk disarms you and sends a massive wood and iron tankard flying!
You dodge Kolruk's divine power.
You parry Kolruk's divine power.
As you parry Kolruk's attack, he strikes at your weapon!
Kolruk disarms you and sends a silver thurible flying!
Vexe's slice decimates you!
You dodge Vexe's slice.
Kolruk has some small but disgusting cuts.

<92%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
A tiny hummingbird flies up to you quickly then slows to a near halt.
Kolruk has some small but disgusting cuts.

<92%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized> flee

Vexe utters the words, 'waouq wuggurz'.
Vexe waves his arm in a wide arc, sending projectiles of pure mana aimed at you.
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
Vexe's magic missile wounds you.
Kolruk has some small but disgusting cuts.

<89%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized> q return

A barbed devil has arrived.
A barbed devil gestures at you, uttering blasphemies.
You feel struck down.
With a supernatural flash, the power of a barbed devil's damnation arcs to a swarthy mercenary!
The fires of Hell are reflected in the eyes of a swarthy mercenary, who sags with the burden of the damned!
Kolruk parries your punch.
Kolruk parries your punch.
Kolruk parries your punch.
Vexe's ring flares with a bright white light!
Vexe's shocking grasp mauls you.
You deftly duck under Kolruk's chop.
You dodge Kolruk's chop.
Kolruk's divine power MANGLES you!
Kolruk has some small but disgusting cuts.

<77%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
The edges of a tiny hummingbird's being stretch and twist and he becomes a grizzly bear.
A grizzly bear is filled with the spirit of the thunderhawk.
Kolruk has some small but disgusting cuts.

<77%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
Vexe utters the words, 'waouq wuggurz'.
Vexe waves his arm in a wide arc, sending projectiles of pure mana aimed at you.
Vexe's magic missile injures you.
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
Kolruk parries your punch.
Your punch devastates Kolruk!
Kolruk stops your punch just before it reaches him.
Your punch decimates Kolruk!
Vexe's slice misses you.
Vexe's slice devastates you!
You dodge Kolruk's chop.
You dodge Kolruk's divine power.
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<71%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
Kolruk sends you sprawling with a powerful bash!
Kolruk's bash grazes you.
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<70%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
A grizzly bear rakes his claws across your body.
A grizzly bear's raking claws MANGLES you!
A grizzly bear's raking claws MANGLES you!
You yell 'Help! a grizzly bear is clawing me!'
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<50%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
A barbed devil gestures at you, uttering blasphemies.
You feel yourself moving more slowly.
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<50%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
Kolruk parries your punch.
Vexe's slice MUTILATES you!
You remain safe as Kolruk's chop bounces harmlessly off of a werewolf skin.
You dodge Kolruk's divine power.
Kolruk's divine power MASSACRES you!
A grizzly bear's claw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You remain safe as a grizzly bear's claw bounces harmlessly off of some spiked body armor.
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<22%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
Vexe utters the words, 'waouq wuggurz'.
Vexe waves his arm in a wide arc, sending projectiles of pure mana aimed at you.
Vexe's magic missile mauls you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Vexe's magic missile grazes you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kolruk is covered with bleeding wounds.

<18%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
A barbed devil gestures at you, uttering blasphemies.
You are blinded!
Someone is covered with bleeding wounds.

<18%hp 100%m 99%mv 6586tnl civilized>
Your punch decimates someone!
Someone parries your punch.
Someone parries your punch.
You dodge someone's slice.
Someone's slice MUTILATES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
You dodge someone's chop.
You dodge someone's divine power.
You dodge someone's chop.
Someone's claw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Someone's claw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You have been KILLED!!

Thoughtcrime is doubleplusungood.

My feeling: if blind stopped Crashing, Crashing would need to work a lot more than it does now.

I'm pretty happy with the way that it balances as-is.

The logs on Dio's, of it firing about 3 times per round every round are NOT the norm?

I can see once every few rounds being groovy. But that much is just insane. Even if it's not the norm, whatever is doing that seems like it needs to be tweaked.

Probably that's lucky.

The only thing I can think to say is, the code for this legacy hasn't changed in at least five years if not longer. If it's that great, why is it perenially one of the least picked?

I don't know, but Scrimbul just posted a couple of logs demonstrating the issue.

But really, I think when at least two logs show up of the same issue at around the same time, it warrants at least a quick look to make sure everything's kosher.

The code has changed. It now feints if the weapon attempting to be disarmed is not able to be disarmed.

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?10,607820,607820#msg-607820

That log posted in that link shows that as early as 16-18 months ago, that aspect of the legacy DIDN'T EXIST.

You're really starting to let me down with your code knowhow man.

There's only one occasion in that log where that could have happened that you'd be able to tell.

It's not necessarily something that will happen 100% of the time in all cases.

You better be right, or I'm just going to have to roll followers of yours and torture you.

I've got to say, I fought a giant with it as a giant, had perfect strength and it still disarmed both weapons pretty much every round. It's over the top.

Common, after Befela there were bunch of Fortie storm giants with it. Now we have two village giants and ARIAL with it. And I would say legacy work for that arial not much worse than for giants if worse at all.

I said 'one of' the least taken... and it certainly has been, year after year after year.

I used it to maul a lot of people with Drezen and there was never this level of bitching (if any). Maybe it's cause I was a Scion warrior and not a rager, or something.

it works much better than before. I had it with one of my chars, I fought against people with it, I observed it on at least 4 cabal mates. Now a days it fires way MORE OFTEN.

As far as I can see, no change.

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,653131,653131#msg-653131

http://www.qhcf.net/phorum/read.php?3,652873,652873#msg-652873

The first is a fire giant, so it almost makes sense.

The second is an arial with a sub-20 max racial strength. To get those kind of results, logically she should have taken Fluid Deceptions. Instead she's getting far better results than she ever could with Fluid.

So I'll put it succinctly since I don't care enough to argue it like I did paladins, and give it a rest after this.

1 near-guaranteed attempt(yes, attempt not disarm, since I understand it won't always succeed) per round isn't often enough for it to be negated by blind?

Can you go into detail as to how the legacy checks the opponent's strength as well, for the situations not involving nodisarm weapons?

Is there some kind of boost to the situation for this legacy I'm not seeing in the above two logs and that kind of performance is nigh impossible?

>Can you go into detail as to how the legacy checks the
>opponent's strength as well

I'm not sure what details you're looking for, but yes, it looks at both combatants' strength. So, potentially, a not-that-high strength character might see decent results from it after throwing a lot of -str down on someone not geared for it.

Obviously the fire giant's strength isn't very low... what with the having armageddon still wielded and all. Might want to double check that math or something

If I recall correctly that character can't really drop strength either, and even if she could there was no strength drop in that log.

If the giant is wielding Armageddon, Tac is implying there is no feasibly reachable buffer where you would both suffer against that legacy from the opponent dropping your strength/having a higher strength and still be able to hold it. And he's right, it's a fifty pound weapon. Your strength drops below 22 or so and you're not holding onto it. That's just a still-cursed Armageddon, if my memory serves it's not nodisarm.

To be perfectly frank it just means I need to learn to play mages and rogue classes more and actual warriors less during the period those two logs and the entire Rager cabal make that legacy popular, especially since there's replies in those logs stating that legacy pretty much won the Rites.

So I don't personally care about the issue.

It just is another one of those wonky 'the game balance here is way off' things that I was hoping to see 'We'll look at this again and you may or may not see a change.' Evidently this won't the case even when an arial is better off taking this than Fluid Deceptions.

I fought Borkahd, Selene and Laegaire. All three having crashing. Against all three the legacy would kick in 1-3 times ever round, and the strength diffrence didn't seem to matter. I had full strength ie 25 in all fights. You say the code hasn't been changed, well something seems to have made and inpact on the code used. If anyone have 30 mins maybe you could make two chars one a test server (guessnig you have one) and let them go at eathother and you should see it triggering. If you still think it look ok I'm good with that. (Heck I'll still play the game. But would feel a lot better if someone from the Imm staff just did a quick check.)

Thanks for letting me play this game for free.

Arial that DIDN'T maladict the oponents strength (2 fire giants and 1 cloud giant) disarmed averagly TWICE/Combat round.


I've dueled with said arial before that several times, and I ALWAYS got disarmed 2 times/round. A few odd rounds it was only 1.


I've fought plenty with people with crashing before, and the past month or so it has been INSANE. I'm just guessing that something else got changed, and that somehow affected that legacy.

Either that or the current fire giant and arial using the legacy is insanely lucky.

<589/947hp 571/643m 945/972mv 24350tnl 2 PM> You parry Jolindar's divine power. You dodge Jolindar's electrical discharge. You dodge Jolindar's divine power. You parry Jolindar's divine power. Your flaming bite MANGLES Jolindar! Jolindar parries your wrath. Like the crashing of waves upon the shore, your attack strikes at Jolindar's weapon! You disarm Jolindar! Jolindar parries your flaming bite. Jolindar parries your wrath. Like the crashing of waves upon the shore, your attack strikes at Jolindar's weapon! You disarm Jolindar! Jolindar is writhing in agony.

Borkahd dodges your divine power. Your divine power MASSACRES Borkahd! You parry Borkahd's poisonous bite. As you parry Borkahd's attack, he strikes at your weapon! Borkahd tries to disarm you, but a long, curving katana named 'Bal'Talon' won't budge! Borkahd's crashing stroke grazes you. You parry Borkahd's poisonous bite. As you parry Borkahd's attack, he strikes at your weapon! Borkahd tries to disarm you, but a long, curving katana named 'Bal'Talon' won't budge! Borkahd's crashing stroke grazes you. You parry Borkahd's poisonous bite. As you parry Borkahd's attack, he strikes at your weapon! Borkahd tries to disarm you, but a long, curving katana named 'Bal'Talon' won't budge! Borkahd's crashing stroke hits you. Borkahd is covered with bleeding wounds. <797(80%)hp 43%(355)m 99%mv [4 AM] (raining)> Stepping back, you draw Borkahd's weapon down to the ground, giving you time for a quick spin followed by a hard thrust into his torso. Your divine power DISMEMBERS Borkahd! Borkahd is covered with bleeding wounds. <797(80%)hp 43%(355)m 99%mv [4 AM] (raining)> Borkahd says spitting blood 'Good idea take sight, knight.' Borkahd is covered with bleeding wounds. <797(80%)hp 43%(355)m 99%mv [4 AM] (raining)> You can't get your weapons up in time to swing. Borkahd parries your divine power. You parry Borkahd's poisonous bite. You parry Borkahd's poisonous bite. As you parry Borkahd's attack, he strikes at your weapon! Borkahd tries to disarm you, but a long, curving katana named 'Bal'Talon' won't budge! Borkahd's crashing stroke hits you. Borkahd is covered with bleeding wounds.

Two logs that were recently posted.

Out of 24 attacks Una parried from Borkhad's, 13 of them had the crashing legacy go off.

Out of 18 attacks that Ikba parried from Selene, 10 of them had crashing legacy go off.

Either the code's been changed without you knowing, or some other code regarding parry/feint or the likes has made a tremendous impact on the success of this skill.

<959/1067(89%) 500/782 977/992 25218 12 AM> call 'sigil of pain' sel
The healer closes his eyes for a moment and nods at the Destructor.
The Destructor shudders, and looks more vigorous.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<959/1067(89%) 500/782 977/992 25218 12 AM> You call upon the Codex and carve a Sigil of Pain onto Selene.
Your sigil of pain MUTILATES Selene!
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<959/1067(89%) 440/782 977/992 25218 12 AM>
Selene parries your shocking bite.
Your divine power MANGLES Selene!
Your shocking bite misses the Destructor.
Your divine power MASSACRES the Destructor!
The Destructor dodges your shocking bite.
The Destructor deflects your shocking bite with its defensive spin.
You parry Selene's wrath.
As you parry Selene's attack, she strikes at your weapon!
Selene disarms you and sends the Axe of Conquest flying!
g 1.wield 1.You parry Selene's punch.
Selene's punch hits you.
You parry the Destructor's slash.
The Destructor pushes you back into an awkward position.
The Destructor's misdirection wounds you.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<927/987(93%) 440/702 977/992 25218 12 AM>
Alzinghul wipes the dirt from his eyes.
The Destructor shivers and suffers.
The Destructor's poison hits it.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<944/987(95%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene sacrifices the Axe of Conquest to the gods.
Your loss of power *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<843/987(85%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene parries your punch.
Selene barely turns your divine power aside.
The Destructor deflects your punch with its defensive spin.
The Destructor parries your divine power.
Your punch devastates the Destructor!
Selene's wrath decimates you!
Selene's punch injures you.
Selene's punch hits you.
You parry Selene's wrath.
The Destructor's slash wounds you.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<774/987(78%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene sacrifices the corpse of Nhergul the Mad to the gods.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<774/987(78%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene sacrifices 6 copper coins to the gods.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<774/987(78%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene sacrifices 31 silver coins to the gods.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<774/987(78%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene dodges your punch.
Selene dodges your divine power.
Your punch mauls the Destructor.
The Destructor deflects your divine power with its defensive spin.
Your punch mauls the Destructor.
Selene delivers a blow of deadly force!
You parry Selene's wrath.
As you parry Selene's attack, she strikes at your weapon!
Selene disarms you and sends Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation flying!
g 1.wield 1.Selene's punch bounces harmlessly off of your stony hide.
Selene's punch wounds you.
A shadowy spirit departs from you and enters the Destructor!
The Destructor's slash injures you.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> You get Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation.
Selene has fled!
Selene leaves east.
Zerrla yells 'Help! I am being attacked by Selene!'
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> You wield Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation.
Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation feels like a part of you!
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> You see no 1. here for you to take.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> rollYou can only wield weapons.
The healer closes his eyes for a moment and nods at the Destructor.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> You roll your eyes in disgust.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> g 1.You see no 1. here for you to take.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<741/987(75%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
The Destructor deflects your divine power with its defensive spin.
The Destructor deflects your divine power with its defensive spin.
The Destructor deflects your divine power with its defensive spin.
You parry the Destructor's slash.
The Destructor pushes you back into an awkward position.
The Destructor's misdirection mauls you.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM> fl
Selene has arrived.
You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Selene!'
You parry Selene's wrath.
As you parry Selene's attack, she strikes at your weapon!
Selene disarms you and sends Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation flying!
g 1.wield 1.The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Zerrla yells 'Help! I'm being attacked by the Destructor!'
The Destructor decimates Zerrla!
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Zerrla narrows her eyes and glares in Selene's direction.
Zerrla calls forth the demons of Hell upon Selene!
Zerrla's torments DISMEMBERS Selene!
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
The healer closes his eyes for a moment and nods at Selene.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Alzinghul wields a huge battle-axe.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<719/987(72%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene dodges your punch.
The Destructor deflects your punch with its defensive spin.
The Destructor deflects your punch with its defensive spin.
Selene's wrath wounds you.
Selene's punch wounds you.
The Destructor's slash injures you.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.

<666/987(67%) 445/702 992/992 25218 1 AM>
Selene sacrifices Fordurn, the Hammer of Creation to the gods.
The Destructor has some small but disgusting cuts.


***Yes just my fault in forgetting iron grip. But that's not what we discuss now right. So that's example of an arial with crashing against UNMALEDICTED hastened fire giant with maximum strenght in game wielding 50lb axe. Either one of us crazy or you don't know what you are talking about.

.

I really enjoy it when Scrimbul is right and is a complete ass about it. Always makes me laugh.

To me, when Nep says "Working as intended. Balance is great.", all I hear is #### Cheney saying "So?" when asked about the extreme unpopularity of the war. Your game, Nep, but all you do is fuel the fire of dislike towards you.

all I hear is #### Cheney saying "So?" when asked about the extreme unpopularity of the war.


Can you shoot me a link to this clip on youtube or something? Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SypeZjeOrY4