Well I just thought back on Errol Flynn and his amazing feats, and got to thinking about a skill.

SKILLWITHNONAMEYET - If you get tripped/bashed/thrown succesfully, you have a chance to parry the first round of incoming attacks after that. You'll still be lagged, but maybe, not so hurt.

If you're tripped/etc. you can already parry incoming blows. Are you suggesting that you'd be better at that while being thrown to the ground, relative to someone in a fighting stance?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I guess I should have elaborated. Here's the score!

Now obviously, this isn't the case, but imagine if your chance to hit the other guy when you're lying down tripped/bashed was lessened, but, your defense was increased (parry only), with a snazzy echo to boot. Because hey, when you're lying down with a sword (other weapon) in your hand, and the other guy is bringing an axe/mace/sword to hit you, YOU'LL PROBABLY WANT TO DEFLECT IT. The chance to do this would depend on your dex vs your opponents and his str vs yours.

This would a. give another dimension/use for trip/bash/throw than simple lagging, and b. give us a slick echo to remind us of the one, the only, the Errol Flynn. Haters are free to use #gag.

Now, I'll be busy trying to incorporate Elvis into CF.

"Because hey, when you're lying down with a sword (other weapon) in your hand, and the other guy is bringing an axe/mace/sword to hit you, YOU'LL PROBABLY WANT TO DEFLECT IT. "

Are you suggesting that one would not be terribly interested in deflecting a blow from an axe/mace/sword when standing?

...Rome...

what if we prefer a more modern approach to warriors?
how about a legacy for rambo-leap (the ability to just barely leap out of the range of any blast or explosion.)
the fireball goes off and you race away throwing yourself into the air, coming through the blast with singed hair and not much else.

or steven segal (once he began producing)
defenses so perfected you simply cannot be hit, except maybe once or twice at a dramatically appropriate moment.

maybe the bruce willis effect. no matter how far into negative hitpoints you go you will not pass out until the other guy is dead.

oh wait mandy patinkin from the princess bride.
you tell them you are not left handed, and your attacks are suddenly better by 20%, countered by carey elwess(sp?)
you tell the other fella you aren't left handed either and yours in turn go up 30%

okay the errol flynn thing is less overpowered, but still the same kind of thing.


sorry had to couldn't help myself. I even like flynn. (cap't blood is my fav. though.)

Because hey, when you're lying down with a sword (other weapon) in your hand, and the other guy is bringing an axe/mace/sword to hit you, YOU'LL PROBABLY WANT TO DEFLECT IT. The chance to do this would depend on your dex vs your opponents and his str vs yours.


How about we make it so you are immune_physical when you are sleeping,
because hey, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET HIT WHILE YOU ARE ASLEEP. ####,
when you are "sitting" maybe we could give you a displacer effect,
because YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO GET HIT WHILE YOU ARE SITTING.

Seriously though, how are you going to defend yourself better if you
are in a less mobile position and have lost the advantage of leverage?
There is just no way in hell that what you are saying makes sense/is
at all logical.

Urden

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

>Seriously though, how are you going to defend yourself better
>if you
>are in a less mobile position and have lost the advantage of
>leverage?
>There is just no way in hell that what you are saying makes
>sense/is
>at all logical.

Apparently you've never fenced, professionally, or as a kid with a wooden sword. Fending off blows when you're on your back isn't hard at all, and being a trained warrior in the world of CF, I don't see any problems with it. As for the added defense boost when you're down, whatever, the first concern was a nifty echo.

As for logical, I suppose everything in the world of CF makes perfect sense. Such as the one hit pugils, or the mostly non insta-death impales, or Valgs seriously questionable 'new' spells with half-assed names.

Apparently you have never fenced professionally or otherwise. The point was while flat on your back decreased mobility makes it more difficult to defend yourself, not the other way around. This isn't samurai sunday mud where a nifty spinning sword is just going to knock all those sharp pointy things from coming even close. While not everything may be logical, nothing I can think of is the complete reverse here. It would be like saying because you are sinking in quicksand and there is less of your body to defend, you should be able to dodge and parry better. Nope.

Heh. You crack me up K.

Apparently you've never fenced, professionally, or as a kid with a wooden sword. Fending off blows when you're on your back isn't hard at all, and being a trained warrior in the world of CF, I don't see any problems with it.

If people could defend themselves better than standing people while knocked to the ground, despite the lack of leverage and mobility:

- Wouldn't soldiers and police immediately collapse on the ground when hand-to-hand combat began? Use the more competitive "flat on my ass" stance, people!
- Why did Daniel-san go to the Crane Stance instead of the Banana Slug Ground Slump? He almost gave the championship to the Cobra Kai, man!

The idea is ridiculous. I initially thought you must have been proposing something else.

That said, reduced penalties (which isn't what you proposed)while prone would be logically feasible but technically troublesome- most damage forces you to the standing position immediately, even if lagged, so the skill would only be useful until you got hit once. Note that since Bash/Trip/etc. deal damage, you're standing right after they go through anyway.

Such as the one hit pugils,
We could make it a bunch of little hits that added up to the same amount, but it would make the skill worse. (Wimpy.) I don't think Pugil needs the downgrade.

the mostly non insta-death impales
An impale generally will eventually kill a target who isn't enhanced by protections, healing, +hp gear, etc. I don't think it's so ridiculous that a trained combatant could (barely) survive a deep wound from a spear. People survive the majority of gunshots. I also don't see why one would be instantly fatal- most of the damage from a puncture wound is going to be the blood loss.

or Valgs seriously questionable 'new' spells with half-assed names.

Examples? Please also provide your replacement ideas.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Ok, since we're still on this. I had to type this in twice due to an error with the forum software, so this edition won't be as concice.

>If people could defend themselves better than standing people
>while knocked to the ground, despite the lack of leverage and
>mobility:

Chuck Norris (former Judo champion, now doing karate), along with various martial artists (especially those studying Shooto), all swear by ground combat techniques in martial arts. FighterA with no wrestling knowledge, fighting FighterB with wrestling knowledge will lose hands down. A few kicks and punches might get you out of ordinary street brawls, but against a skilled opponent (not pointing a gun at you), parrying, dodging, throwing and ground combat techniques will win you the fight, the key being the ground combat.

>- Wouldn't soldiers and police immediately collapse on the
>ground when hand-to-hand combat began? Use the more
>competitive "flat on my ass" stance, people!

Some soldiers, and most police do learn ground combat. There's little reason to go down though when you have a plexi-shield and a baton. Once the police does go down, it's because he is surrounded by a dozen people, kicking and punching him. There's little he can do against a dozen people with 2 weeks of martial arts training.

>- Why did Daniel-san go to the Crane Stance instead of the
>Banana Slug Ground Slump? He almost gave the championship to
>the Cobra Kai, man!

It's a movie about karate. How big a success had it been if instead of exciting kicks that you rarely see in reality, it had had two guys hugging each other on the ground? Karate has few very few throws, if any, and those are finished with a simple marking punch or kick. I'm not a practitioner of karate, nor have I ever been, but instead the Chinese martial arts.

>The idea is ridiculous. I initially thought you must have
>been proposing something else.

I like Errol.

>Such as the one hit pugils,
>We could make it a bunch of little hits that added up to the
>same amount, but it would make the skill worse. (Wimpy.) I
>don't think Pugil needs the downgrade.

I believe the helpfile for pugil goes something like this '.. hitting your opponent in rapid succession with the ends of the staff'. Have pugil do two hits, each with halved damage, with the same old lag.

>the mostly non insta-death impales
>An impale generally will eventually kill a target who isn't
>enhanced by protections, healing, +hp gear, etc. I don't
>think it's so ridiculous that a trained combatant could
>(barely) survive a deep wound from a spear. People survive
>the majority of gunshots. I also don't see why one would be
>instantly fatal- most of the damage from a puncture wound is
>going to be the blood loss.

Gut-shot wounds are some of the most fatal gunshot injuries there are. Not having a degree in medicine, or any interest in the subject, I don't have any exact numbers. But you're not going to get up on your feet and drive away to your wife in a car while impaled on a spear, Arnold or not. This, and the above were silly examples, I am fine with impale working the way it does, and I apologize.

>or Valgs seriously questionable 'new' spells with
>half-assed names.
>
>Examples? Please also provide your replacement ideas.

Puissance, Tenacity, Minor malison. There are no doubt dozens of others, but not having a prep list or AIM, I am unable to pull out any others at this time from my poor excuse of a baked brain.

Having a spell sound like a french dish is never good. Puissance could be Power of Dragons, or Strength of Dragons instead.

Tenacity. Harden skin works.

Minor malison. Minor curse.


Not being a MENSA member, or solving puzzles in my spare time, I don't feel like pulling a dictionary out each time I quaff/eat a prep I've never seen before.



Circ.

But Chuck Norris is a joke.

No.. really. I can obviously tell that you haven't done anything serious if you actually think Chuck Norris knows anything about martial arts. Shiiit... I could beat Chuck Norris.

Oh yeah... and there's a reason for there being weight divisions in Judo. They say 'all judo moves become useless when there's a difference between the opponents larger than two weight classes'. Reason being, you can't move anyone significantly larger than you. Not enough leverage. I'd imagine the same applies to wrestling, to an even greater extent.

And third, but certainly not last, Chinese martial arts is a joke. Yes.. I'm sure your 'master' told you differently, but frankly, in the Asian community Chinese martial arts *is* *a* *joke*.
I can't tell you how much it amuses us when we see some white guy tell us about how he's trained in the 'martial arts', how he did 'shooto' 'kung-fu', or the best one, 'wooshu'.
We sit there thinking 'please.... that isn't martial arts you moron, that's our version of gymnastics, okay?'
Most forms of the better known martial arts have degenerated into more or less of a sport during the past 50 years or so, Karate and Taekwondo among them. The schools in the States are even worse. I tried this and that since coming to the states looking for a Dojang I liked, I couldn't stand the 'feel good about yourself' motto these places had. 'Take it easy' 'Go at your own pace' 'Slow down'. Hell no. In the end I gave up and took up weightlifting and boxing instead. There's far less #### involved.

I'm not even going to get into your 'fall down and defend better' theory. I hope to god you made that up yourself cause if there's some place out there that actually teaches you that you should lie down before you get into a fight, they should be closed down before they get somebody hurt.

Do yourself a favor. If you're one of the few people who live within a big city with a big Asian population, See if you can find a Dojang teaching 'Guk-jin' Karate. Not just Karate, make sure that it's 'Guk-jin'. Regular Karate is even worse than Taekwondo. Walk in, if you see more kids, women and old balding overweight guys then guys ranging from 15~25, turn around and walk away. A good indication should be scars along the master's knuckles. Guk-jin incorporates a lot of boxing moves done without gloves, so over time a hardened scar tissue develops along the knuckles that prevents the skin from breaking when you're pounding that punching bag.
Even if you signed up, got your 'dobok' belt, even those cute lil protective headgears and gloves, if you realize that this place is a 'take it at your own pace' Dojang, quit.

Find a boxing gym. After learning the basics shadowbox and use the punching bag until you've sweated out at least a pint. Ignore your spasming muscles the next day and keep repeating for a week, going every day until your muscles stop cramping. Continue going at least 3 times a week for the rest of your life. You'll gradually come to realize how little you knew before, and become embarrased about how you bragged to your friends about how you knew 'kung-fu'. But you'll more likely then not be able to beat the #### out of any so called 'martial artists' who try their fancy 'kung-fu' 'lie down before you fight' crap on you.

That said, the best option is to always avoid a fight whenever possible. Running is not for cowards. It takes far more courage to avoid a confrontation then to stand and fight when you know you can beat up that other guy. In the states if you're not out looking for trouble you should 'NEVER' have to get into a fight.
But.... doesn't hurt to be prepared. :P

>But Chuck Norris is a joke.

He might be an 'actor', but unlike Steve Segal, he knows his ####.

>No.. really. I can obviously tell that you haven't done
>anything serious if you actually think Chuck Norris knows
>anything about martial arts. Shiiit... I could beat Chuck
>Norris.

Bring it.

>Oh yeah... and there's a reason for there being weight
>divisions in Judo. They say 'all judo moves become useless
>when there's a difference between the opponents larger than
>two weight classes'. Reason being, you can't move anyone
>significantly larger than you. Not enough leverage. I'd
>imagine the same applies to wrestling, to an even greater
>extent.

I've had no trouble moving much bigger people. It's about balance as much as anything.

>I can't tell you how much it amuses us when we see some white
>guy tell us about how he's trained in the 'martial arts', how
>he did 'shooto' 'kung-fu', or the best one, 'wooshu'.

Right. First off, kung-fu is not a martial art, second, it's Wushu, which is the true word for all the Chinese martial arts. And I ask you to tell that Shooto is complete #### to any UFC fighter, most of who have had some training in it, or one of its derivatives.

>your own pace' 'Slow down'. Hell no. In the end I gave up and
>took up weightlifting and boxing instead. There's far less
>#### involved.

Yes. Boxers could kick many a martial artists ass.

>I'm not even going to get into your 'fall down and defend
>better' theory. I hope to god you made that up yourself cause
>if there's some place out there that actually teaches you that
>you should lie down before you get into a fight, they should
>be closed down before they get somebody hurt.

I didn't say you should lie down before you fight, I believe Valg said something to that effect.

>Do yourself a favor. If you're one of the few people who live
>within a big city with a big Asian population, See if you can
>find a Dojang teaching 'Guk-jin' Karate. Not just Karate, make
>sure that it's 'Guk-jin'. Regular Karate is even worse than

Never heard of it. And I personally think that Karate is a joke. If it's not full contact, you're not learning ####.

>Taekwondo. Walk in, if you see more kids, women and old
>balding overweight guys then guys ranging from 15~25, turn
>around and walk away. A good indication should be scars along
>the master's knuckles. Guk-jin incorporates a lot of boxing
>moves done without gloves, so over time a hardened scar tissue
>develops along the knuckles that prevents the skin from
>breaking when you're pounding that punching bag.

So does Wushu, though we would use buckets with small rocks along with punching bags. But apparently the only Wushu you've seen has been in a Chinese opera.

>That said, the best option is to always avoid a fight whenever
>possible. Running is not for cowards. It takes far more
>courage to avoid a confrontation then to stand and fight when
>you know you can beat up that other guy. In the states if
>you're not out looking for trouble you should 'NEVER' have to
>get into a fight.
>But.... doesn't hurt to be prepared. :P

Tell that to DC/Boldereth. He's a badass straight from the NYC yo!

I understand you admitting this would probably mean you've been learning a sorry excuse for a martial art for however long you've been doing it, but hey... looks like you won't be convinced until I give you a very specific examples. This is going to take a while, but hey... it'll help. I like helping.

Here's why Asians, (Not chinese people mind you, noo... they think their #### is the bomb, regardless of any amount of evidence that proves otherwise.) think chinese martial arts is a 'joke'.

While I was in Korea I followed the Asian martial arts tournaments cause occasionally they'd show tournaments in the Dojang, or there would be articles posted on the walls.
In every major 'unlimited' martial arts tourament since like the 1980s, No form of traditional chinese martial artist won a tournament. Not once. That's 20 years of not winning a single tournament. Boxers have, Kickboxers have. People who did Karate, Taekwondo have. But not a single person learned in a traditional chinese martial art. In fact, most of the time the people trained in nothing but traditional chinese martial arts were all disqualified in the qualifying rounds. Now, if you're going to tell me the halfassed #### you can learn here is somehow 'different' that it's somehow 'better' then what you can learn in mainland China, well, good luck, I wish you the best with your 'training'.

Want more? Here's a couple of matches I've seen with my own eyes.
The ones pitting a chinese 'master' vs someone trained in a more actual combat oriented art like 'guk-jin' karate or even kickboxing.. .it's sad.
I saw one match where a chinese guy learned in 'Charyuk' demonstrated how he could shatter a rock with his bare hands, but then proceeded to get knocked out within 3 minutes of getting into the ring by a kickboxer, another where a guy that learned some kind of 'kung-fu' started doing some fancy footwork in front of a guy that learned 'guk-jin' karate. The other guy just stared at him in disbelief for a moment then kicked him once in the stomach breaking right through his defense as he was doing some fancy move, followed by a right hook to the side of his head. He went down like a sack of potatoes. The other guy didn't even bother waiting for him to get up and just got out of the ring. A little while later the announcer reported that that guy went up to the judges and complained that he was there for a serious competition, not to participate in a 'chicken dance', and told them that they needed to be more selective about the quality of their contestants.

And you wonder why we think Chinese martial arts is a joke? Chinese martial arts is flashy. That's about all there is to it.
Hitting buckets full of pebbles? Please, there's a big difference between intentionally trying to make the damn scars so you won't bleed and getting it naturally from pounding a punching bag a couple of thousand times a day.
If having hard knuckles made you a better martial artist having a pair of brass knuckles would do.
Maybe if you've trained in Chinese martial arts for 10~20 years you somehow reach a higher plane of 'self awareness' that really does let you be a 'super martial artist' but from what I've seen, if you want to get down to the meat and potatos of it, being able to learn something useful before your body gets too old, and out of your prime, Chinese martial arts is not something you want to learn.

I've seen one of those UFC things, and frankly, they're a step above wrestling. Put those guys in a real Asian tournament, and they'd be ripped to shreds. The speed these guys move at are at two entirely different levels.

Oh yes.. Judo, I don't know what you've been drinking, but it's all about 'balance'? Where'd you get that? So you know more about Judo then the guys on the Olympics board? Cause that's a direct quote from one of the judges presiding over the '88 Olympics.
Last year when I was in Korea on one show as a kind of a farce they pitted the Korean Women's Judo team against a group of 5 actors. (None had any martial arts training I might add) This is the gold medalist team by the way. You know how that went? 3-2. Actors win. Granted, one of the guys looked like he hit the gym 3 times a week, but the rest of them were either scrawny or fat. OLYMPICS GOLD medalists can't beat a group of NORMAL guys.
If you can toss someone who weighs a 100 pounds more than you do, quit your day job now, cause you obviously can do something no one else in the world can. You belong on the US olympics team.
.....
Please, for christ's sake don't compare your 'playfighting' that you do with your friends with an actual competition or a real situation. By the way, you should have outgrown that years ago.

And yes.. finally... the last thing I wanted to tell you.. Chuck Norris.
Do you know 'exactly' what Chuck Norris learned?
He learned 'Gook-sul'. He's like the big 'celebrity' guy for that particular school of martial arts. Supposedly it's getting a big following in Texas. He has a second degree black belt in 'Gook-sul'.
That's a neo-korean martial art that some korean dude made before he came over to the states. He basically went around and sparred with a bunch of korean 'masters' when he was young, formulated his own system of a martial art, came to the states, created a new martial art named 'Gook-sul' and gave himself a 9th degree black belt.

.......... yeah.
No seriously, you're allowed to do that when you're making something new.

How do I know this? My dad was a consul for the Korean Consulate, and I had a chance to meet this guy in Houston while my dad was stationed there.
My dad made me go to one of the 'Gook-sul' schools in Houston after I met him. I went there for two weeks before I finally came home and just told my dad that I wasn't going to that place anymore. I gotta say, when I first met him I thought it was amazing how good of a shape he was in for someone in his 60s? Or even later, I forgot exactly how old he was but I remember thinking he looked at least 20 years younger than he was.
Unfortunately, the Dojang I went to was like one big farce.

The 'master' had a third degree black belt. I don't know what the whole system with that particular school was but In Korea you can't run your own 'Do-jang' until you at least have a fifth, which usually takes anywhere from 7 to 10 years. It showed. This guy was not that good. This was a thoroughly 'americanized' institution. They emphasised 'taking it slow', 'do things at your own pace'. There was no sparring. (Which would have made sense. Half the people there were under 10, the other half was over 40.)
One of the forms actually had the Karate kid stance. You know.. the one where the kid stands on one foot? I've seen that movie some 3 times over the course of my life, every time I see it I shake my head in disbelief at what passed for 'martial arts' in the states back in the 80s. I never thought I'd actually see that #### in a real Dojang.

That's your Chuck Norris buddy. Ooooh, scary huh?
Face it, Chuck Norris is an 80s hero that learned something you could pass off as a martial arts to someone who's never likely seen anything 'real' before. Apparently, guys like you.

Guys like him would never have been able to call himself a martial artist in Korea, there were likely at least 5 kids in every 8th grade class that were better at Karate then he was, and I was one of them.

And as for your grappling bit... You grew up in New York City huh? Yeah.. that's real nice. I had to grow up in Korea. Know why I had to learn martial arts?
When I was in second grade (This was right after I first came back from the states) My mom noticed I was coming home crying all the time, saying that some kid was beating me up in school. She dragged me to the nearest Taekwondo Dojang.

That's the thing about bullies, they're usually bigger and stronger than you. If you look like you'd put up a good fight, they wont pick a fight with you. That's the premise of learning a martial art. It lets you handle opponents who are bigger and stronger than you are. If they're your size or smaller, you don't even need it to begin with. Grappling techniques only work if you bring him down first of all, and anyone learned well enough in a 'real' martial art isn't going to just sit there looking pretty while you try to grab him. Even if you bring him down.. what then?
I was a kid that went back and forth between Korea and the States. This is my third time here. And regardless of how tough you think your big city kiddies were, you don't hold a candle to how nasty Korean kids can get, cause they didn't have to worry about the guy they were beating on going crazy and blowing their brains out with a gun.
Kids in Korea don't like anyone who seem 'different', and they definately don't like Americans. Meaning they don't like Korean kids who've been to America. I remember after moving a few times I just started pretending I'd never been to the states, intentionally getting a few questions wrong on the English tests, pronouncing things wrong when the teacher called on me to read a passage etc. I got into more than my share of fights, much more than I would have had to get into were I just like the 'other kids'. Usually against the class bullies that were about twice my size, and sometimes they didn't try it alone.
And in a school, running and avoiding the fight, which most of the time is always the best choice, isn't an option. I've won my share of those fights, probably more than I deserved to win due to the time limit, (10 minutes between classes) and I've lost more than I'd care to remember, but I didn't have the same bully trying to get me twice once they realized beating me up usually ended in them getting at least a little bit hurt as well.
And from those fights I can tell you, if you're on the ground you'd better ####ing hope you're stronger than him cause if you're both on the ground and he's stronger than you, regardless of how much Karate you've learned you're #### outta luck.
I hope you'll never have to deal with this kind of ####, but you'll realize exactly how useless martial arts is if you're both on the ground, he managed to press you down with his weight and start pounding your face for 3 minutes until the class bell rings. He was pissed because he didn't manage to catch me for the first few minutes while I was hitting him as much as I could. Once he grabbed me though that was it. Despite what you may believe about 'balance', if a guy who's that much stronger and bigger than you manages to get a good grip on you, you're done.

No real martial artist will ever tell you that you should bring someone to the ground and fight him there. Any responsible martial artist knows that you only fight if you have to, and even then, only until you can get away. How are you going to get away if you're lying on top of him trying to pound the #### out of him? The moment you cross that threshhold you're not a martial artist, you're a bully.

And frankly, judging from your posturing you haven't taken martial arts for any length of time, not to mention your adoration of Chuck Norris, who frankly even without knowing his background in martial arts, just looking at him in TV, everything about him from his stances to the way he moves screams 'amateur'.

There, that was the 'long' version.
I hope you're happy. Took me almost 30 minutes to type out, I hope this will convince you to stop wasting time and actually learn something useful.

If not, just stay out of trouble. You don't want to learn the hard way how exactly useful what you learned is.

Phooey. Ok champ, let's see what you wrote.

>Here's why Asians, (Not chinese people mind you, noo... they
>think their #### is the bomb, regardless of any amount of
>evidence that proves otherwise.) think chinese martial arts is
>a 'joke'.

The bottomline however is, kicking ass or not, you'll end up with a fit bod.

>While I was in Korea I followed the Asian martial arts
>tournaments cause occasionally they'd show tournaments in the
>Dojang, or there would be articles posted on the walls.

Ok.. I'm confused here. Dojang is a what? Dojo in korean? And also a form of karate? Why isn't it a form a Tae Kwon Do? Is it a really a form of anything? Would a google search on Dojang show me sites of korean toilet paper manufacturers? I wonder..

>I saw one match where a chinese guy learned in 'Charyuk'
>demonstrated how he could shatter a rock with his bare hands,
>but then proceeded to get knocked out within 3 minutes of
>getting into the ring by a kickboxer, another where a guy that
>learned some kind of 'kung-fu' started doing some fancy

There's no such thing as 'Charyuk' in chinese martial arts. That sounds more like Philippino martial arts. Unless you think every asian guy looks chinese.

>Hitting buckets full of pebbles? Please, there's a big
>difference between intentionally trying to make the damn scars
>so you won't bleed and getting it naturally from pounding a
>punching bag a couple of thousand times a day.

Uh, what's the difference exactly? You're hitting hard objects with your fists to harden the skin and bones. Different methods, same results, and as I stated in my previous reply, we did hit punching bags too.

>Maybe if you've trained in Chinese martial arts for 10~20
>years you somehow reach a higher plane of 'self awareness'
>that really does let you be a 'super martial artist' but from
>what I've seen, if you want to get down to the meat and
>potatos of it, being able to learn something useful before
>your body gets too old, and out of your prime, Chinese martial
>arts is not something you want to learn.

You must be thinking of Yoga or Tai Chi.

>I've seen one of those UFC things, and frankly, they're a step
>above wrestling. Put those guys in a real Asian tournament,
>and they'd be ripped to shreds. The speed these guys move at
>are at two entirely different levels.

And what's a real asian tournament? Does it have a specific name?

>Oh yes.. Judo, I don't know what you've been drinking, but
>it's all about 'balance'? Where'd you get that? So you know
>more about Judo then the guys on the Olympics board? Cause
>that's a direct quote from one of the judges presiding over
>the '88 Olympics.

You must have some memory. And you're paraphrasing. I did not say 'it's all about balance'.

>Last year when I was in Korea on one show as a kind of a farce
>they pitted the Korean Women's Judo team against a group of 5
>actors. (None had any martial arts training I might add) This
>is the gold medalist team by the way. You know how that went?
>3-2. Actors win. Granted, one of the guys looked like he hit
>the gym 3 times a week, but the rest of them were either
>scrawny or fat. OLYMPICS GOLD medalists can't beat a group of
>NORMAL guys.

Assuming any of this is really true, are you sure it wasn't a set-up to appease the korean audience who no doubt knew what the jig was.

>If you can toss someone who weighs a 100 pounds more than you
>do, quit your day job now, cause you obviously can do
>something no one else in the world can. You belong on the US
>olympics team.

Thanks. However, I have had arthritis for some 8 years now, and am unable to practice any sports anymore. Also, where did I say I could toss someone weighing more than me? Could I floor him by disrupting his balance? Yes. Could I lift him up and throw him down? Most likely not.

>.....
>Please, for christ's sake don't compare your 'playfighting'
>that you do with your friends with an actual competition or a
>real situation. By the way, you should have outgrown that
>years ago.

I don't recall comparing it to a competition.

>And yes.. finally... the last thing I wanted to tell you..
>Chuck Norris.
>Do you know 'exactly' what Chuck Norris learned?
>He learned 'Gook-sul'. He's like the big 'celebrity' guy for
>that particular school of martial arts. Supposedly it's
>getting a big following in Texas. He has a second degree black
>belt in 'Gook-sul'.

Gook-sul? Gook? I wonder where it got its name.. Hmmm.. Ok, fine.

>That's a neo-korean martial art that some korean dude made
>before he came over to the states. He basically went around
>and sparred with a bunch of korean 'masters' when he was
>young, formulated his own system of a martial art, came to the
>states, created a new martial art named 'Gook-sul' and gave
>himself a 9th degree black belt.

And I suppose the great korean masters (Bob, Lucy and Mary), didn't initially develop their own systems and give themselves the titles of grandmaster? I suppose God created the korean martial arts.

>No seriously, you're allowed to do that when you're making
>something new.

True. I'm the self proclaimed King of Rock.

>How do I know this? My dad was a consul for the Korean
>Consulate, and I had a chance to meet this guy in Houston
>while my dad was stationed there.

Ah. My dad was a political activist in his home country, but he had to leave because the king wasn't too keen on a communist revolution. He's now a retired small-time thief. Or so I've heard.

>That's your Chuck Norris buddy. Ooooh, scary huh?
>Face it, Chuck Norris is an 80s hero that learned something
>you could pass off as a martial arts to someone who's never
>likely seen anything 'real' before. Apparently, guys like
>you.

No, I've never seen guts splattered on a sidewalk. I won't ask what your definition of 'real' is, as I'd like to spare myself of having to read a new note, which is really the previous note, again.

>Guys like him would never have been able to call himself a
>martial artist in Korea, there were likely at least 5 kids in
>every 8th grade class that were better at Karate then he was,
>and I was one of them.

Are you in the movies then, sir?

>And as for your grappling bit... You grew up in New York City
>huh? Yeah.. that's real nice. I had to grow up in Korea. Know
>why I had to learn martial arts?

Um... no... Where exactly did I say I was from New York? I said DC/Boldereth was from the big bad city. I'm not DC/Boldereth.

>When I was in second grade (This was right after I first came
>back from the states) My mom noticed I was coming home crying
>all the time, saying that some kid was beating me up in
>school. She dragged me to the nearest Taekwondo Dojang.

Yay! Go Mom!

>That's the thing about bullies, they're usually bigger and
>stronger than you. If you look like you'd put up a good fight,
>they wont pick a fight with you. That's the premise of
>learning a martial art. It lets you handle opponents who are
>bigger and stronger than you are. If they're your size or
>smaller, you don't even need it to begin with. Grappling

Bigger and stronger than you are? I.. thought.. you couldn't handle bigger and stronger guys with martial arts.. Or was that just judo?

>techniques only work if you bring him down first of all, and
>anyone learned well enough in a 'real' martial art isn't going
>to just sit there looking pretty while you try to grab him.

But this is elementary school. I don't think he's got kung-fu knowledge. Take him down bro!

>Even if you bring him down.. what then?

Yes, what then?

>I was a kid that went back and forth between Korea and the
>States. This is my third time here. And regardless of how

Third time in Korea or the States?

>tough you think your big city kiddies were, you don't hold a
>candle to how nasty Korean kids can get, cause they didn't

Korean kids are nasty? What, they throw hot eggnoodles in your face and call your mom fat? That's nasty alright. Notify UNICEF, I'll back you up.

>definately don't like Americans. Meaning they don't like
>Korean kids who've been to America. I remember after moving a

Or maybe they just don't like capitalists? Or are we talking about South Korea here?

>And from those fights I can tell you, if you're on the ground
>you'd better ####ing hope you're stronger than him cause if
>you're both on the ground and he's stronger than you,
>regardless of how much Karate you've learned you're #### outta
>luck.

Oh, karate is the secret.

>I hope you'll never have to deal with this kind of ####, but
>you'll realize exactly how useless martial arts is if you're
>both on the ground, he managed to press you down with his
>weight and start pounding your face for 3 minutes until the
>class bell rings. He was pissed because he didn't manage to

Or... you could have used your knee behind his ass, gripped his neck and hoisted him over you, thus giving him a very sore head. Or maybe that's a little hard to do when you're getting bitch slapped. I dunno.

>No real martial artist will ever tell you that you should
>bring someone to the ground and fight him there. Any
>responsible martial artist knows that you only fight if you
>have to, and even then, only until you can get away. How are
>you going to get away if you're lying on top of him trying to
>pound the #### out of him? The moment you cross that
>threshhold you're not a martial artist, you're a bully.

So you beating up the bullies makes you a bully? You disgust me.

>And frankly, judging from your posturing you haven't taken
>martial arts for any length of time, not to mention your

My posturing? I'm somewhat confused. What do you mean?

>If not, just stay out of trouble. You don't want to learn the
>hard way how exactly useful what you learned is.

True dat. Here's to you my friend, I'm pretending I'm holding a bottle of an alcoholic beverage of your choice in my hand and lifting it up.


Circ.

.

>Ok.. I'm confused here. Dojang is a what? Dojo in korean? And

Yes.

>also a form of karate?

No

> Why isn't it a form a Tae Kwon Do?

The dojang is just the room where people go. Same as a dojo, gymnasium or kwoon if that's what you call it.

>Last year when I was in Korea on one show as a kind of a farce
>they pitted the Korean Women's Judo team against a group of 5
>actors.

In what sort of contest? Was it a formalized judo match?

>No seriously, you're allowed to do that when you're making
>something new.

What is your opinion of jeet kune do?


> Grappling techniques only work if you bring him down first of all,
> and
...
> if you're on the ground you'd better ####ing hope you're stronger
> than him cause if you're both on the ground and he's stronger than
> you, regardless of how much Karate you've learned you're #### outta

I'm curious what your background in grappling/groundfighting is... did you train in that in addition to the traditional TKD? Are you familiar at all with Gracie or Brazillian jiu-jitsu?

>you'll realize exactly how useless martial arts is if you're
>both on the ground

Certainly if you've never trained your martial art from the ground you won't know how to apply it there. Styles that emphasize kicking will have a particularly difficult time adapting their techniques to the ground.

>I hope this will convince you to stop wasting time and actually
>learn something useful.

What is your training regimen?

Incidentally, have you read any literature on the subject of the reality of street combat? Are you at all familiar with Mas Ayoob's work, for example?

I don't see how an effect being called puissance or tenacity is any different from a phylactery of "fortitude".

If you test a prep sensibly you are usually ok.

For example, two of us tested out a prep that had a side effect called Malaise. I tested it in a place where I was confident I would be safe if I suffered an ill effect. The other guy tested it at the entrance to the sylvan grove, and he was a defiler. Needless to say, he died as a result.

Why don't we also do something like make centurions block you while they're sleeping, because centurions REALLY want to collect their tolls.

Just make Centurions utterly immune to sleep and knockout effects and end posts like this forever.

You really don't want me to do that, though.