I love this game, and have had fun with it all the way up to hero ranks, but there are some things that I just do not understand why they exist.

1. A shaman and his rot. This is the only thing a shaman will do, before he actually fights you. Flee, rot, and keep try'n it. What's worse is that you are pretty much dead if you get rotted, with the small chance to survive it.

2. Noone should be able to out melee a warrior. A singer, with one hand on an instrument can parry 90%+ of what a warrior can do. THe whole purpose of being a warrior is to be able to out melee other classes. A bard is not going to parry anything with an "instrument" in his off hand, but somehow, he does. Bards have all the songs in the world to just seriously mess up anyone. They have songs that do outrageous damage. They have the ability to parry, dodge, enhanced damage, and make a fiend on you that is to strong too. Everything about a bard is over the top, overpowered. Fleeing, and sleeping, fleeing, and trying to flee. Flee, and doing whatever they want because you can't do anything about it. There is a reason why the best players in the game that I can think of off the top of my head are bards. This class needs some things taken away. It's just not fun. That's all I want to do is have fun, and these two things just make it not fun. I had a bard just about dead this morning, after he fled and he was in awful condition. I ran in to attack him, and he parried/dodge everything I did for four rounds before another walked in and helped him. Again, this is a musician, he shouldn't know how to fight, or dodge, or anything like that. He sings, that's it. But, he's got every tool need to destroy any class. I just dont get it why they are so strong.

3. Assassinate is another one. On the other board assassins when they die even say assassinate is to powerful. It's just to powerful, and easy to do. These one skill deaths are just to powerful for CF and makes playing not fun at all.

I dont know what you can do about it, but it's boring, and makes me not ever want to get above the rank of 35, because of all these things. I'm just frustrated, but these are a couple of the things that I dont understand. Some things just need to be removed is all that I'm saying, or seriously toned down.

Flame me if you want, and theory fight me all you want. Theory fights never work anyways.

Learning CF involves pain...lots of it. It's rough out there and Death doesn't wait for anyone, it comes at you with an attitude.

I've been killed by every class at some point. I accept that I suck at pking.

Assassins cannot really assassinate with impunity...like fighters, it takes lots of practice on other skills to insure an assassin's survival once the assassination attempt fails...which it often does.

The idea that a bard is a musician, he shouldn't know how to fight, or dodge, or anything like that. He sings, that's it. Is a bit naive and simplistic. Yes bards have a nice toolkit, and they can be a pain. Lots of folks offered ideas on how to defeat them.

Shaman? Shall I say shaman like fighters use their best ailities as does any class. If a fighter is good with a particular weapon, they will choose it over others. Yes, rot is a pain...a small preparation effort minimizes its impact.

I would rather fight these than be an evil character and fight a virtued paladin. But that is just me.

*Note - I am still not an immortal, and they will likely beat me up and remove this imm-tag.
eshval@nowhere.wtf

A whole new day, a whole new set of possibilities. - MacGyver

but you rule at imming. Come back :(

n/t

-the incredibly steep learning curve of CF.

That and that alone.

Some jerk tells you that BLAH BLAH BLAH
and your first instinct is WTF how the hell
are they doing BLAH BLAH BLAH?

Well they have played CF for a heck of a lot
more successfully than you. They took the time
to learn more and to *gasp* ask for IC help
with situations like your aforementioned ones.

You want to avoid assassination? Become
a herald/tribunal. Heck those two Cabals are
where you should be newb. No stalking in the
Inn and with Tribunal you get to detect hidden.

But then again you will still die horrendously
and repeatedly in either of those Cabals. Why?
Because you have not put in the work to get as
good as the assmunchers who have replied to this
thread. Oh and yes it is work. If you want to
play CF you have to work at it. There is no way
to avoid it, no way to become super DUDE/Duddette
without work. That is where CF shines and fails.
That is why CF seems elitist, it is because it
is so either become elite or STFU.

Suck it up buttercup and either quit or get good
enough to post assinine replies like these so you
too can have fun killing newbs and stealing their
breads.

Muwahahahaha!
UA.

>I love this game, and have had fun with it all the way up to
>hero ranks, but there are some things that I just do not
>understand why they exist.
>
>1. A shaman and his rot. This is the only thing a shaman will
>do, before he actually fights you. Flee, rot, and keep try'n
>it. What's worse is that you are pretty much dead if you get
>rotted, with the small chance to survive it.
>

Actually there's a trick to surviving it. Basically you carry around a bunch of +con gear, but only choice pieces. For example, there's a non-limited jerkin just under Arkham which is +3 con, you can add a couple of bracers from the guards in the towers in frigid wastes for another +2 each (tho' might want a druid to turn them from iron). Few belts around for +2 con, then a number of neckware things that are +1 (and plenty more if you know where to look). The secret as described to me, and it seems to be accurate, is that it matters how much con you have EVEN IF YOU EXCEED MAX CON.

For example, if I play a drow (like my AP Victoria), if I got rotted I'd pile on about +20 con in gear (and my con was still 16 anyway), and rot would only knock off a few points of con, and even those few points would not matter because I'd still be at more than 16. However, having all that extra con stuff seems to stop the rot reducing con at all, most ticks.

Failing that, there's an edge you can take.

Failing that, you can find a pc with healing sleep to help, or if you are lucky, a willing acolyte.

There are even ways to put yourself into healing sleep, though not many know them.

>2. Noone should be able to out melee a warrior. A singer, with
>one hand on an instrument can parry 90%+ of what a warrior can
>do. THe whole purpose of being a warrior is to be able to out
>melee other classes. A bard is not going to parry anything
>with an "instrument" in his off hand, but somehow, he does.

Basically someone using resist mental is very hard to fight as a bard, because your songs become a lot less effective. Now that's not really a problem as a bard with lots of dam redux (even if the warrior uses dam redux, which is harder than it is for a bard anyway), because you will still live long enough to get off lots of song attempts. However, if you are not hugely prepped, that axe spec will chew you up with pincers, even if he's not hitting you with melee attacks.

Overall though, I do agree that bards could be toned down a bit, and I dislike the fiend skill because I think it enables people to kill without talent. (I played Desabarun so I'm speaking from experience.)

>Bards have all the songs in the world to just seriously mess
>up anyone. They have songs that do outrageous damage.

But for most bards, the damage is inconsistent, and there's a lot of ways to reduce it or outright prevent it.

> They
>have the ability to parry, dodge, enhanced damage, and make a
>fiend on you that is to strong too. Everything about a bard
>is over the top, overpowered. Fleeing, and sleeping, fleeing,
>and trying to flee. Flee, and doing whatever they want because
>you can't do anything about it.

Tiger claw (assassin), hurl throat (dagger spec), deafen (ap), forget (necro), sleep (any sleep class), rot (if what you say about rot is true, which it isn't really), power word despair (ap), faceslash (ap), fight them next to strong mobs that will whomp on the bard if they sing next to them (anyone). Summon strong mobs to prevent them singing (any summoner) etc. Lag them (might require you to make them run through their preps. There's actually a lot you can do.

> There is a reason why the best
>players in the game that I can think of off the top of my head
>are bards. This class needs some things taken away. It's just
>not fun. That's all I want to do is have fun, and these two
>things just make it not fun. I had a bard just about dead this
>morning, after he fled and he was in awful condition. I ran in
>to attack him, and he parried/dodge everything I did for four
>rounds before another walked in and helped him.

Yet someone managed to get him just about dead. Maybe you should have used an active skill to finish him instead of trying to lag him which it sounds like you did. If you bashed (guessing you did), then you must have done it twice if the fight lasted 4 rounds before help arrived. Bashing and pincering (or similar) when you saw how hurt he was would probably have won the day. Unless it is a bard like mine, who had the feign weakness edge so had foes spam bash on him until they died, because I wasn't that hurt at all.

> Again, this is
>a musician, he shouldn't know how to fight, or dodge, or
>anything like that. He sings, that's it. But, he's got every
>tool need to destroy any class. I just dont get it why they
>are so strong.
>

Seriously, there are lots of ways to mess up bards. Although I do think that fiend is too strong. And personally I think they have too much access to preps etc. I'd take staves away from bards.

>3. Assassinate is another one. On the other board assassins
>when they die even say assassinate is to powerful. It's just
>to powerful, and easy to do. These one skill deaths are just
>to powerful for CF and makes playing not fun at all.
>

Only once has an assassin ever got me without me embracing the risk and knowing it was likely. And that time it was because I needed to get to a healer badly so attempted to pass the large crossroads on eastern when I teleported from Tabershaws to holy grove, knowing that assassin was on my tail. He go to the bit of eastern first so cut me off and got me. But were it not for the fact that I was (a) dying already, and (b) a little lazy because I probably could have summoned some mobs and energy drained them, he wouldn't have.

>I dont know what you can do about it, but it's boring, and
>makes me not ever want to get above the rank of 35, because of
>all these things.

Uhh, staying below 35 is about the WORST thing you can do. Assassinate-happy assassins tend to level sit at 35 and pick on people of lower level.

> I'm just frustrated, but these are a couple
>of the things that I dont understand. Some things just need
>to be removed is all that I'm saying, or seriously toned down.
>
>
>Flame me if you want, and theory fight me all you want. Theory
>fights never work anyways.

Well, I like to think I'm decent on the theory, because in most cases, I've seen how both sides of the argument pan out in practice, and I can point to the characters involved.

>me, and it seems to be accurate, is that it matters how much
>con you have EVEN IF YOU EXCEED MAX CON.

I won't argue with your experience, but I don't think it works this way. If so, it seems stupid to the point of being buggy. My understanding was that the check goes against your *current* constitution each tick, with some adjustment for spell saves. So the goal is to keep your constitution at racial max for as long as possible.

>There are even ways to put yourself into healing sleep, though
>not many know them.

Would that I did. I "sort of" do, but "sort of" doesn't cut it.

>Overall though, I do agree that bards could be toned down a
>bit, and I dislike the fiend skill because I think it enables
>people to kill without talent.

Yeah, I've thought about playing a bard for just this reason. The prospect of sleeping, singing at, reciting at, then brandishing against, my target before waking them with fiend is very attractive. Basic bard songs are bad enough, but when you stack on slow, plague, and potentially curse...well, then it's just silly. Of course, then I think of how irritating it would be to gather all these preps, and how I'd inevitably get bashed down by someone, assassinated, or tripped to death by some thief because I don't have detect hidden, and the urge to play a bard lessens somewhat.

>But for most bards, the damage is inconsistent, and there's a
>lot of ways to reduce it or outright prevent it.

Definitely. Even if you lack resist mental, there's a relatively inexpensive method of getting resist heat/cold in one fell swoop.

>Only once has an assassin ever got me without me embracing the
>risk and knowing it was likely.

I wonder about it when I hear stuff like this. I mean, did you not rank to hero? Unless you limited yourself only to groups w/ someone who detects hidden, it seems like at some point you must have left yourself vulnerable to assassination. Sometimes I think it's a matter of just not being the "lowest hanging fruit". If an assassin wants to kill someone, and there's some guy sitting around not going anywhere, he's probably going to pause to stalk that guy instead of continuing to scour Thera looking for you. So as long as you're not "that guy", your odds of being assassinated are greatly reduced. If, however, someone was only interested in assassinating you, then maybe their odds of success are somewhat better.

Largely it is being aware of assassins being on, and tracking whether they are hidden or not. If you leave an area, and they vis soon after, you know there is a good chance they're leaving the area too to allow a repop.

If you're on Kiadana, spamming where is enough to catch most as they move up the river.

There's a number of underwater areas that work for ranking, or areas where an assassin will get beat down (no-recall) if they miss the assassinate.

Plus there is the twitchy edge.

If you want, you can often put them off by fogging a few mobs near the entrance of an area, so they assume that you are fogging regularly.

I'm with Isildur on the "low hanging fruit" theory. The reason why I think assassinate is not balanced is: (*)(**)

1. It completely changes the way enemies have to play the game. You haven't even listed the tactics that Victoria/Niheriva used to delay being assassinated (and they were the only PK enemies I saw that went to those lengths). You can't stop and hang out to RP for a while. You have to think about what areas you're exploring and whether you've explored there for longer than 10-15 minutes. You can't take part in cabal type fights for longer than 10-15 minutes. Etc. OK, maybe the stats show that there is a low number of assassinates per assassins played. Maybe the stats show that most characters get assassinated only 1-3 times over a couple hundred hours. But regardless of what the stats show, assassinate transforms the way people have to play, and not entirely in what I would describe as a "beneficial" way.

2. I think like Isildur that the best defense is to not be the low hanging fruit, and hope that the assassin doesn't have the driving need to pursue you over easier targets. Because even easy targets involve a substantial time commitment (i.e., 10-15 minutes or more).

(*) I don't know how to "fix" it and keep it a cool, addicting ability, but I do think ragers should get something special to avoid it.
(**) My experience may have been an anomoly because I was playing an imperial assassin, which has a tremendous boost from cabal powers (despite what Jinroh says) and in the words of Nep, I "had the luckiest improvements in the history of neo-assassinate" (roughly quoted).

Is that assassinate *might* steal more kills from assassins than it adds. Or, if not more, then at least enough to mitigate the effectiveness of the assassinate skill. You have to wonder how many more kills some assassins would have if they didn't focus on assassinating to the detriment of all other tactics once they got the skill.

nt

I mean, having to actually play a game with paranoia is a bit ridiculous. If I could have that paranoia be automatic without having to spend a heap of my edge points, that'd be awesome.

Oh well.

Then again, I've rarely ever got assassinated. Maybe four times in all the years I've been playing?

"I'm just frustrated, but these are a couple of the things that I dont understand. Some things just need to be removed is all that I'm saying, or seriously toned down."

I'm sorry, but the fact that you do not understand how these things work (see other posts for detail) is not justification for us to remove that content.

Flame me if you want, and theory fight me all you want. Theory fights never work anyways.

You're right, which is why I tend to ask questions like "If Rot, bards, and Assassinate are unstoppable, why aren't they dominating the PK landscape?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

This is maybe a separate point than the original poster was trying to make, but "not dominating the PK landscape" doesn't necessarily mean something isn't screwed up balance-wise.

If a skill/spell/song/etc. can be used by a very poor player to kill a very good player, who is playing reasonably and isn't just "caught at the right time", then one could argue it's broken.

Suppose you gave me hide & sneak plus a power that could only be used every 100 game hours, and had a 10% chance of instantly slaying my opponent and a 90% chance of instantly slaying me. Using that power, I wouldn't "dominate the PK landscape", but I would probably end up killing a few people I had no business killing. And it wouldn't be due to any skill or cleverness on my part.

I don't agree with them, but I get the feeling this is how many people view the assassinate skill. Our responses, that "it's really dangerous to attempt assassinations on some people," and, "if it were that overpowered you'd see assassins dominating the PK landscape," don't really address this line of reasoning.

I agree and mostly from a strategical perspective. When I fight someone I like to think its my tactics versus theirs, my strategy versus theirs, etc. You build up a character by successfully killing other people, thereby getting gear that in turn makes you more powerful. Its a process that could take weeks, maybe months depending on how often you play. But if someone walks up and kills you with cleave, that totally throws off the concept of competition. And there's a lot of skills which at the end of the day create wins purely based on random ill-fated bad luck.

So while you won't become Zorszaul with cleave or assassinate they still in my opinion pose competition/fairplay questions because of the fight turning into a battle between you and the RNG rather than you and the opponent.

on the PC monsters.

This check is predicated, of course, that their opponents are willing to risk near-certain death in order to attempt that rare lucky kill.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Noob.

1. Rot sucks, not because it means death, but because carrying around a full set of con gear (about 20 con of non-limited gear I could carry on my elf) is a nuisance, and when the rot lands you are in a protracted timeout as you wait for the rot to expire.

2. I dislike bards because they can do invoker-like area damage but act like an undispellable, area-effecting transmuter in their ability to augment their allies and maladict their enemies. Meh.

3. I've been assassinated in the neighborhood of three times since I started playing, so if you think assassinate is OP, I suspect you are not sufficiently paranoid in your playstyle or you play Battle or Fortress, who are on the losing end of the assassinate wars.

!#$@# Centurions. @#$@!(&&# Trail sentries in Balator. GRRR!

>1. A shaman and his rot. This is the only thing a shaman will
>do, before he actually fights you. Flee, rot, and keep try'n
>it. What's worse is that you are pretty much dead if you get
>rotted, with the small chance to survive it.

A shaman who is a one-trick-rot-pony will not be nearly as successful as one who is not. It is not hard to carry around a couple non-limited +2/+3 con gear and make rot completely survivable.

>2. Noone should be able to out melee a warrior. A singer, with
>one hand on an instrument can parry 90%+ of what a warrior can
>do. THe whole purpose of being a warrior is to be able to out
>melee other classes. A bard is not going to parry anything
>with an "instrument" in his off hand, but somehow, he does.
>Bards have all the songs in the world to just seriously mess
>up anyone. They have songs that do outrageous damage. They
>have the ability to parry, dodge, enhanced damage, and make a
>fiend on you that is to strong too. Everything about a bard
>is over the top, overpowered. Fleeing, and sleeping, fleeing,
>and trying to flee. Flee, and doing whatever they want because
>you can't do anything about it. There is a reason why the best
>players in the game that I can think of off the top of my head
>are bards. This class needs some things taken away. It's just
>not fun. That's all I want to do is have fun, and these two
>things just make it not fun. I had a bard just about dead this
>morning, after he fled and he was in awful condition. I ran in
>to attack him, and he parried/dodge everything I did for four
>rounds before another walked in and helped him. Again, this is
>a musician, he shouldn't know how to fight, or dodge, or
>anything like that. He sings, that's it. But, he's got every
>tool need to destroy any class. I just dont get it why they
>are so strong.

I disagree that "everything on a bard is over the top, overpowered", I think they are far easier to be successful as a one-trick-fiend-pony than any other class, but if bards are your weakness, find a resist mental prep and turn them into the biggest joke in the game.

>3. Assassinate is another one. On the other board assassins
>when they die even say assassinate is to powerful. It's just
>to powerful, and easy to do. These one skill deaths are just
>to powerful for CF and makes playing not fun at all.

No comment about cleave or power word kill? Assassinate is so very easy to counter by continuously moving around, keeping a wary eye out, etc. I think you'll find the actual number of assassinates is fairly low given how many assassins there are. It just might be, you die to skilled players.

>I dont know what you can do about it, but it's boring, and
>makes me not ever want to get above the rank of 35, because of
>all these things. I'm just frustrated, but these are a couple
>of the things that I dont understand. Some things just need
>to be removed is all that I'm saying, or seriously toned down.

Or maybe you need to actually have tactics to go up against these. None of these are very hard to overcome...the problem tends to be, you can't be prepared for EVERY single possible enemy you could be fighting.

I know of at least four resist mental preps off the top of my head. They all have some sort of restriction in obtaining, which is good, because you don't want just any shmuck rolling with resist mental at his disposal 24/7.

But to quote you:

" find a resist mental prep and turn them into the biggest joke in the game."



Just to be clear, you're of the opinion that resist mental is in fact powerful enough to make a bard the biggest joke in the game? I've fought bards with resist mental, and while it sometimes helped me save against the initial one or two attempts at symphonic echoes, I've also been slept, maledicted to hell, and then fiended, which resulted in a death, because my shapeshifter form (wildcat) only had 18 hitroll to begin with and was dropped to negatives. Granted that was before the changes, and it'd be a lot different now. Still, I've seen it be really effective. And I've seen it be really ineffective.

So my question is, how well does resist mental really stack against bards, and even transmuters neurological disruption? Is a dumb race going to benefit from it?

I'm with you on this one. Resist mental helps, but it doesn't give you the ability to just toy with a bard.

>I know of at least four resist mental preps off the top of my
>head. They all have some sort of restriction in obtaining,
>which is good, because you don't want just any shmuck rolling
>with resist mental at his disposal 24/7.
>
>But to quote you:
>
>" find a resist mental prep and turn them into the biggest
>joke in the game."
>
>Just to be clear, you're of the opinion that resist mental is
>in fact powerful enough to make a bard the biggest joke in the
>game? I've fought bards with resist mental, and while it
>sometimes helped me save against the initial one or two
>attempts at symphonic echoes, I've also been slept, maledicted
>to hell, and then fiended, which resulted in a death, because
>my shapeshifter form (wildcat) only had 18 hitroll to begin
>with and was dropped to negatives. Granted that was before the
>changes, and it'd be a lot different now. Still, I've seen it
>be really effective. And I've seen it be really ineffective.
>
>So my question is, how well does resist mental really stack
>against bards, and even transmuters neurological disruption?
>Is a dumb race going to benefit from it?


Okay...maybe that was a bit of hyperbole. It isn't in fact the silver bullet. However, resist mental is going to help you out a lot against a single bard (not his friends, groups, cabalmates, etc). Even a dumb race will benefit, but you will get a lot more benefit the higher your mental stats.

I've played a few years now and I know several resist mental preps but every single one is flagged as magic. Since there is now a difference between save vs spells and save vs mental, could the staff please take a look at the resist mental preps and make them (some of them) non-magic? At least one is very similar to seaweed for instance, it's a natural growing thing that has an affect. No reason it could not be ok for villagers just like water breathing from seaweed. That's just one example. Villagers already take a big hit by mostly being unable to prepare for specific things, resist mental stuff shouldn't be one of them, at least not for all of the items as it currently seems.

exam earplugs

You look at a pair of large cotton balls on a single piece of string. While not truly blocking out sound, they serve to muffle it by blocking the ears. The balls are large enough that they'd fit more like ear muffs on a gnome, but comfortably reach the inner-ear of any giant.

a pair of earplugs are clothing, and weigh 0.1 lbs.

Worn on the ear, like earrings! This would allow minotaur to use them as well - although they do already get an advantage vs bards.

-12 svm (I know this is used for things other than bard songs, but the calm evoked from not hearing every little sound is as much part of the defense).

And an alternative option:

exam helm

This dented lead helmet appears to have taken enough beatings that it would only fit comfortably on some of the more abused mage skulls of the village. Each facet is uniquely curved and the soft lead has perfectly preserved every imprint of the blessed hammer used to imbue it. It is said this mallet was once used by -insert character here- to knock sense into villagers who were acting stupidly, and some still say it carries that memory and alerts it's wearer before a blow from a divine hammer to the skull becomes a necessity.

A dented lead helmet is armor, and weighs 6 pounds 3 lbs.

Worn on the head, open fronted so you can wear a mask too. Maybe echo something handy when worn.

-12 svm, +1 wis, +1 int.

I've always looked at it as one of the drawbacks of the class. Just like arial ragers can't use resist lightning preps, felar ragers can't use resist heat preps, etc. Ragers, in general, can't use resist mental.

Having said that, I'm now wondering whether one of the resist mental preps I know is in fact non-magical. Maybe I'll go check it out some time.

Always got his ass kicked by bards, EXCEPT when using resist_mental preps, then the fight became even, or a win for me. Never lost while I had resist_mental up running.

"Or maybe you need to actually have tactics to go up against these. None of these are very hard to overcome...the problem tends to be, you can't be prepared for EVERY single possible enemy you could be fighting."

Ain't that the f-ing truth! Going along with this, the one time you are actually as-prepped-as-can-be to fight someone in particular, low and behold the entire opposite build/class runs up in your face and shows you what your heart looks like before you realize you've just been trainwrecked. Enjoy the rush of the game man, and just go with it rather than fight the things that seem to be a weakness. Worst care scenario, you gotta spend 20 minutes regearing, with an idea of what "not" to do next time.

That's why I love this game personally, the adreniline rush of being fast and calm enough to anticipate, react, and confront/move on, with your emotions. So take my old advice, hero each class, then roll something that collectively have abilities to beat them and play that build. You will have a better understanding of how not-f-up, you seem to think it is right now. On top of that, you can learn the bard/assassin/shaman class weaknesses in more detail, providing an overall understanding.

Do that, and repost this thread with the character names, and I garuntee you, you probably won't have any questions on the subject, but would probably be able to even give advice on. Get my drift?

See you in the fields!



"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Seriously, bards don't scare me because there generally aren't killing me unless I do something stupid, but it is a little stupid when my tactics for KILLING THEM is bring in gang. And I'm talking about n00b bards, at that.

(GIANT BERSERKER AXE SPECS NOTWITHSTANDING, I'M TALKING MORE ALONG THE LINES OF TANKING WARRIOR CLASS/SPEC COMBOS)

Not to mention that the village can't get resist mental preps. Or most of the higher end gear that has svmental.

I seem to remember Elhe once telling me he outmelee'd a berserker warrior once. Maybe I'll ask him to post it.

nt

1 Rot

As far as rot, I can have 8 con, and survive a powerful rot. Just think about how the commune works, it lowers your CON over a period of time. Based on what your CON is, you need to keep it higher than death (4) in order to survive a full on Rot. A wide bronze belt, probably one of the most common armors in the game, I believe gives you like 1 or 2 CON, something like that. Gather additional armor like this and raise your CON stat while the rot is hitting you. All you have to do is keep your CON higher than the malediction drops it. Now, if I have 8 con, and no con-raising gear and get slammed with a rot, shame on me for being low-con, fighting a shaman, and not having the items available. That being said, I also have over 10yrs experience and for the most part can gather said items within a very short time frame, something like 2-20 minutes I should be able to max out my con if not more.

So, that takes care of Rot. (svs help too, and make it not nearly as maledicting or lasting)


2 Bards
Not all warriors are going to parry well in melee, and bards do have a parry skill, plus weapon knowledge and so forth. Especially after landing key songs for maledicting, bards can become Awesome tanks. They are very verisitile and INHO keys to beating bards are to lag them, or hit/run them so that they are singing when you are not in the same room. They can't spam songs, use this and timing, against them. Even still, this is a pretty broad complaint, as EVERYONE will tool and get tooled by specific match ups almost regardless of what you do. City ties thieves don't go tripping Fire Giant Berserkers anymore than you see Ap's tanking Water Forms, (Cabdru/Ravon dont apply) so you DO have to pick an choose match ups, and gear/wield accordingly. For what it's worth, the majority of classes I play, I too have difficulty fighting bards, and it takes more than BASH BASH BASH to do so, especially in the higher ranks, however that goes without saying in most cases.

3 Assassinate

Assassins suck when you're on the recieving end. However, I've been attempted on at least 5 or 6 times this past week, and have yet been assassinated. You really need to be aware of your surroundings, and utilize the Where command all the time. As you move around, pause on water areas to see if you are being followed, backtrap your setps, use areas like outside the Hamsah west gate where people cant hide and step out from the shadows to cross, to catch or see someone stalking you. Teleport often if you have been in the same area for a while, don't just sit in a guild, don't rest in the same spot waiting for an Area to repop while ranking, etc etc.
You are being followed, and you have to counter-act that.

Assassinate can definately keep you on your toe's, however in my experience I land more kills from failed assassinates, or at least give a good thrashing to assassins that miss it, a HELL of a lot more than I am assassinated. And when I am assassinated, I generally knew it was coming but decided to take the risk in order to accomplish what I was engaged with at the time.

If you think this stuff sucks, wait till you start fighting hero binder thieves, or walk into a thirsting giant axe wielder, or fight a mongoose, Mongoose is ####!

good luck

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Your post may be true for newer players, but, those who have been around awhile rarely have any of the problems you are mentioning here.

>I love this game, and have had fun with it all the way up to
>hero ranks, but there are some things that I just do not
>understand why they exist.
>
>1. A shaman and his rot. This is the only thing a shaman will
>do, before he actually fights you. Flee, rot, and keep try'n
>it. What's worse is that you are pretty much dead if you get
>rotted, with the small chance to survive it.

I have been playing for 14 years and have never died from a rot. When you know there is a shaman that is going to be hunting for you, you can spend less than an hour gathering none limited gear to prevent rot from killing you. This is a problem with experience, not balance.


>
>2. Noone should be able to out melee a warrior. A singer, with
>one hand on an instrument can parry 90%+ of what a warrior can
>do. THe whole purpose of being a warrior is to be able to out
>melee other classes. A bard is not going to parry anything
>with an "instrument" in his off hand, but somehow, he does.
>Bards have all the songs in the world to just seriously mess
>up anyone. They have songs that do outrageous damage. They
>have the ability to parry, dodge, enhanced damage, and make a
>fiend on you that is to strong too. Everything about a bard
>is over the top, overpowered. Fleeing, and sleeping, fleeing,
>and trying to flee. Flee, and doing whatever they want because
>you can't do anything about it. There is a reason why the best
>players in the game that I can think of off the top of my head
>are bards. This class needs some things taken away. It's just
>not fun. That's all I want to do is have fun, and these two
>things just make it not fun. I had a bard just about dead this
>morning, after he fled and he was in awful condition. I ran in
>to attack him, and he parried/dodge everything I did for four
>rounds before another walked in and helped him. Again, this is
>a musician, he shouldn't know how to fight, or dodge, or
>anything like that. He sings, that's it. But, he's got every
>tool need to destroy any class. I just dont get it why they
>are so strong.

The best players in the game play bards...they also play warriors who have no trouble with bards. This is a problem with experience, not balance.


>
>3. Assassinate is another one. On the other board assassins
>when they die even say assassinate is to powerful. It's just
>to powerful, and easy to do. These one skill deaths are just
>to powerful for CF and makes playing not fun at all.

Play an assassin and get assassinate to 100%. For players who know what they are doing, they make it look easy and can make your claim. Also, for experienced players, being assassinated isn't something that happens often. I remember it being attempted on me once in the last four years by an accomplished assassin and he missed and I killed him for it.

>
>I dont know what you can do about it, but it's boring, and
>makes me not ever want to get above the rank of 35, because of
>all these things. I'm just frustrated, but these are a couple
>of the things that I dont understand. Some things just need
>to be removed is all that I'm saying, or seriously toned down.

You don't have the experience to make these claims valid. It takes time before you understand all of the nuances of certain match ups.

>
>
>Flame me if you want, and theory fight me all you want. Theory
>fights never work anyways.

This isn't about flaming you. Just stating the facts, not the theories that you are implying.

>1. A shaman and his rot. This is the only thing a shaman will
>do, before he actually fights you. Flee, rot, and keep try'n
>it. What's worse is that you are pretty much dead if you get
>rotted, with the small chance to survive it.

This is wrong on both counts. I played a shaman for 600 hours and didn't always go for rot. So there's one counter-example to your first point. As for rot being a "win button", that's only true in special cases (i.e. someone with really low constitution). It's a rough estimate, but I'd say that out of all the times I rotted people maybe 20% resulted in the guy dying. And usually that was someone with absolute crap for spell saves and/or low constitution. Oh, and I had the rot-boosting edge.

Moral of the story: keep your con high (i.e. don't blow all your trains on hp), carry some basic +con stuff (or know how to get it really quick), and if you're still having trouble, take the anti-rot edge. It's not even that expensive.

>2. Noone should be able to out melee a warrior. A singer, with
>one hand on an instrument can parry 90%+ of what a warrior can
>do.

Again, I'd say this is wrong on both counts. An anti-paladin with big weapon will, obviously, out-melee a warrior. So will lots of other classes if they've stacked on the damage reduction (see: shifters). Many ranger builds with out-melee a warrior if the fight happens in the forest. I assume you're talking about both characters just standing there and not entering any commands. An assassin in martial trance might also out-melee a warrior (again, based on damage reduction).

>Everything about a bard is over the top, overpowered.

I'll agree that a hero bard is one of the strongest builds in the game. Especially if played by the right person. They don't get detect hidden, though, so they're potentially assassinate-bait. Unlike some other classes (warriors are a good example), if I'm an assassin then I don't have a lot of "fear" about assassinating a solo bard. If I miss, I just flee and get out of there. With some warrior builds, there's a good chance I die if I miss. Bards also lack a way to *initially* protect themselves from bash. So, if a couple of bashing classes managed to catch a bard before he could sing echoes, they have a decent chance of permalagging him until he dies.

>and he parried/dodge everything I did for four
>rounds before another walked in and helped him.

What weapon were you wielding? You sure he hadn't replaced the instrument w/ a shield? It's not unheard of for someone wearing sword/shield to parry/dodge/block four rounds of incoming sword melee.

>3. Assassinate is another one. On the other board assassins
>when they die even say assassinate is to powerful. It's just
>to powerful, and easy to do. These one skill deaths are just
>to powerful for CF and makes playing not fun at all.

Balrahd said that. One of the better players around. Most assassins don't have near the success with it that he did. They also tend to have trouble with players who know how to make it difficult for assassins to assassinate them. Witness Balrahd's comments re: Niheriva. Just a few characters off the premium battlefield:

Siphana, conjurer, 255 hours, 1 assassination death.
Ckol, warrior, 216 hours, 1 assassination death.
Gramoak, warrior, 201 hours, 2 assassination deaths.
Cezar, warrior, 407 hours, 1 assassination death.
Soayel, healer, 395 hours, 2 assassination deaths.
Niheriva, paladin, 693 hours, 1 assassination death.

If it's the win stick you describe, why weren't these guys assassinated more often? Why don't you see more assassins with perfected assassinate and absolutely outrageous kill counts?

gr

yep, all of them. I mean I wouldn't come on here and rant if I didn't.

And don't need to be told how easy all of them are to counter.

So... your successful rotting shamans, bards, and assassinate assassins would be... ?

I've been on both sides of all of those match ups many times, and you're so far off on how all these things play out. I disbelieve that you've played any of these characters especially PK-successfully given that.