I feel it's too annoying to fight death-druids because of the three powerful DOT's they've got: Thornheart, Spores, and Primordial Vengeance.

From what I know, each DOT can only be removed in wilderness area's. I also only know of (1) place where I can get rid of Thornheart. The helpfiles of thornheart & spores have no mention on how to actually get rid of the malady. I've no idea how to get rid of Primordial Vengeance. I've seen durations of ~50 ticks on TH & Spores, damage as high as EVISCERATES and severe mana draining.

The real kicker for me, is that these can be applied anywhere at anytime, and force the characters to make long treks through wilderness to remote wilderness locations while losing hp, mana and movement at fast rates. Then, you have to sit around for 5-10 ticks and wait for the effect to wear off. Even if the druid doesn't intervene while you're walking or sitting around, it's a good chance you're screwed.

In my opinion, these DOT's practically hand deliver people into the druid's lap with no hp, mana or movement on wilderness terrains. They appear to make it much too easy for druids, and much too hard on everyone else. I also feel the helpfiles should reflect the solution to these maladies.

Don't forget this is a class with charmy armies, damage nukes, utility nukes, dots, inherent dam reduction, fantastic stun protection, stealth and healing.

Man am I glad we banned you from Dio's.

You keep posting about "overpowered" stuff that isn't nearly as powerful as you think.

I have been thornhearted probably nearly 1000 times and I've never been driven into a place where a druid can pick me off. Same with spores and primo veng (although the latter is very powerful, and much underused).

Some of the solutions I've used:
1. Set somewhere on fire.
2. Go to somewhere on fire.
3. Go to somewhere conglaciated (naturally or otherwise).
4. Go underwater (for spores).
5. Go underground (since then is harder for druid to find you).
6. Sometimes I just go somewhere less obvious. e.g. For cold I'll run to the jade mountains.

who agrees that fighting a druid is annoying?
I mean, you get a few spells and then spend some significant amount of time resting or running around very specific areas and avoiding the druid or other enemies. In my book it is as much fun as rotting shamans.

Or most readers just glance over the author name and automatically skip the rest of his points?

And I don't discuss how overpowered are druids because Valg surely knows better if they are or aren't.

Sometimes cf balance means all the class v. class matchups work out approximately even odds, other times it seems some class v. class matchups are lopsided one way while others lopside the other way.

To me, druids are the latter - able to handle certain fights pretty easily. Unless I've got a race/class/spec combo that can handle druids I just avoid them when they are ready for a fight.

sada

....try retrieving when you don't see a druid waiting for you there at the Huntress. I'd rate it definitely the scariest class to fight there, especially with insects.

....try retrieving when you don't see a druid waiting for you there at the Huntress. I'd rate it definitely the scariest class to fight there, especially with insects.

Conversely, try defending Empire or Tribunal against a raiding druid.

We've seen some effective druids, but their numbers aren't out of line with what the same players put up with other classes.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

There's alot of scary classes to fight at the huntress with insects. Unless it's a full moon I don't put druids at the top of that list.

Just imagine two thornhearts (two rounds of battle. in first you are striking the huntress and in second you can not kill druid or lag him reliably) and you must flee and wait a long time to get rid of them. Because third thornheart will give you -12 str loss, painful damage and so on. And there is a good chance to find you on rest on Kiadana/ashes/wastelands and finish you.

>Just imagine two thornhearts (two rounds of battle. in first you
>are striking the huntress and in second you can not kill druid or
>lag him reliably) and you must flee and wait a long time to get rid
>of them. Because third thornheart will give you -12 str loss,
>painful damage and so on. And there is a good chance to find you on
>rest on Kiadana/ashes/wastelands and finish you.

I wouldn't go to retrieve on a full moon. At least not alone.

But: If the druid wasted two rounds (or more !) trying to thornheart me, I would feel pretty confident that I could pull of the retrieval or kill the druid or both.

I agree that in a long, drawn out fight where the druid can run and heal, and you are stuck in some place (say affected by insect swarm and out of moves in a wilderness area), thornheart coupled with a lot of other things can be deadly. But for you to actually arrive in that situation, you must have done nothing for a long time.

If you are a warrior -12 str is nothing. Drive, pull, lag, whatever the druid while he is wasting time trying to drop your weapon.

If you got the wands skills, you have other means of preparing for a fight. If you are a shaman, you have other means to deal with the druid, etc.

The same goes for spores. Kill the druid and then get rid of the spores.

I know it sounds trite, but play a druid. Druids are great for womping unprepared foes. If you know what to expect, not so great.

May you explain about the moon? Do they have more strength or what?

>But: If the druid wasted two rounds (or more !) trying to thornheart >me, I would feel pretty confident that I could pull of the retrieval or >kill the druid or both.

Why is that?
May you also write more about tactics and such
Why -12 str is nothing? Lets assume warrior has 22 str and +6str gear (which is pretty decent), then after -12 str he will have 16str. Thats not enough to wield some heavy weapons already.

>But for you to actually arrive in that situation, you must have done >nothing for a long time.
Well, I can (for example) make some skill and druid makes thornheart. Just 2-3 rounds and I must run away to get rid of them

>I know it sounds trite, but play a druid
If I would have such wish, I'd do it already. However I do not like them at all, and wasting dozens of hours to play the char, when you dont get fun from him its sick. I doubt either you or Valg has done such.
I do not say druids are overpowered neither I whine and cry. Just want to know more about them and how to fight them.

Going out on a limb here, but I'm sure Valg has not only played a druid, but probably has a greater concept of what they are capable of than you do, given the fact he has direct access to the code, and knows what the hell he's doing.

Drokk, I would assume, has dabbled with druids to say the least. If nothing else, he has experience fighting them.

When I first tried a druid out, I didn't think I'd like it either. I read helpfiles for them, and didn't really know what anything did. Then I started using them, and realized that they are damn tough in the right situations. But then I also realized that in other situations, I was going to be in big trouble. I had a lot of fun with the class, and if I ever got motivated enough to write a role, I'd probably try one again (but I don't see it happening, for personal reasons). I learned a lot about them by playing. I learned things about them that I couldn't learn from fighting them alone, or reading helpfiles.

The only way to learn, is to humble yourself by trying one, instead of making excuses why you won't.

>May you explain about the moon? Do they have more strength or
>what?

The phase of the moon influences the supplications of a druid. In this particular case I was thinking of the hunt, which can only be called on a full moon (and in a wilderness room). The druid only needs to be in the same area as the victim, which is attacked by an aggressive tracking NPC and is unable to use magical transportation.
Obviously, that can be rather bad.


>May you also write more about tactics and such

I did suggest something. Seperating the druid from his pets is a start. If you are a good tank, you don't need to but can rely on damage and lag. It all depends. If you aren't a warrior, you usually have very good means of damage reduction plus interesting class abilities.

>Why -12 str is nothing? Lets assume warrior has 22 str and
>+6str gear (which is pretty decent),

+6 str is great at low levels. I assumed we were talking around level 40 or even hero here. Then it isn't. Disclaimer: Barring unique suits you cannot be well-equipped for every foe. So you always have to make tradeoffs. What do you worry most about? Losing your weapon to strength loss? Getting slept? Getting paralysed by a transmuter, etc.

However, unlike many other gear types, it is possible to gear for strength loss at a very early level. And giving up very little in the process.

I think going by the reequip/lowbie list on Dioxide (which is aimed at level 20 or something?) you can get +5 str. So with a little more effort you should be able to get more. If not, you have the option of wielding a light weapon. You don't need to wield avg 27 weapons for every fight. Avg 20 is fine in many cases. Try finding wooden or bone weapons. They are all over the place. Incidentially, many of these are light too. For starters try the bone from the snow worm.

>If I would have such wish, I'd do it already. However I do not
>like them at all, and wasting dozens of hours to play the
>char, when you dont get fun from him its sick. I doubt either
>you or Valg has done such.

No, I play for fun, too.

>I do not say druids are overpowered neither I whine and cry.

Perhaps I misread you. I just heard you bring up thornheart a few times, and of the many things a druid can do, this seems to be rather low on my worry list. If I were low level, I'd be more concerned about eating two thorns from a hidden druid when spamming directions (yeah, I know, don't spam) and die to the damage and pets.

>Just want to know more about them and how to fight them.

But of course. However, I doubt you will find anything but general advice. Discussing tactics is fine, but playing them out is what really gives you insight. That was what I meant by playing a druid. Seeing what brings you down, and what works for you offers great insights you can use when you are fighting against a druid.

When you played your antipaladin, I am sure you tried different tactics and thought about countermeasures.

I know switching weapons is another matter as an ap.
Bloodlust is plus strength IIRC, that means you don't need that much +str from gear.

Good luck.

>Why is that?
>May you also write more about tactics and such
>Why -12 str is nothing? Lets assume warrior has 22 str and
>+6str gear (which is pretty decent), then after -12 str he
>will have 16str. Thats not enough to wield some heavy weapons
>already.

+6 str isn't very much at the higher levels. (At the lower levels, a thornheart isn't going to be -4 str.) It's about the minimum I'll have on a warrior who has died and full looted by the time I unghost.

For some builds I'll gear for +10 or +15 str as a priority over anything else. If I was gearing to fight a druid specifically I probably would not wear that much, but it's certainly doable even without a lot of great gear, if it's important enough to you.

Consider also:

- There's a save against thornheart. Probably you aren't getting hit with it twice in two casts. Probably you have a better chance to be hit by it ZERO times in two casts. Every time that happens the druid is giving up a free hit on you, incidentally.

- There's lots of places you can go to deal with it. Some characters can make their own.

- Healing sleep, among a few things, can finish it anywhere.

- There's also the tried and true method of going somewhere ELSE and just beating it as long as you need to with healing. A warrior with no other maledictions may be able to take a good run at this just with their natural regen and berserk, depending on how they're set up.

>There's a save against thornheart.
Do you mean that svs helps against it? If so, it would be nice.

>- There's also the tried and true method of going somewhere ELSE and >just beating it as long as you need to with healing. A warrior with no >other maledictions may be able to take a good run at this just with >their natural regen and berserk, depending on how they're set up.
What about a mage? Since I am mage-player :)

>What about a mage? Since I am mage-player :)

Mages in general have less to worry about from thornheart then melee classes for many reasons.

1. They have better inherent movement abilities to help get to locations suitable for healing thornheart and to town healers through the use of teleport and word of recall.

2. They have better damage reduction available as preps and class abilities. Thus can more easily outlast the damage done by thornhearts while they kill the druid or escape.

3. The maldictions are less damaging as they rely less on strength and dex(I think there is -dex as well but I can't remember).

The only general downside for a mage in this sense that I can think of is the lower average HP, but gear can offset this greatly.

>>- There's also the tried and true method of going somewhere
>ELSE and >just beating it as long as you need to with healing.
>A warrior with no >other maledictions may be able to take a
>good run at this just with >their natural regen and berserk,
>depending on how they're set up.
>What about a mage? Since I am mage-player :)

Heal heal. :)

Or whatever method of healing yourself (e.g. vampiric touch) might be available to you.

"Just want to know more about them and how to fight them."

Do what I did, Play one. You will learn everything you want to know.



"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

Want to know something? Play it. Want to learn how certain skill works? Use it hundreds of times with different builds, make statistical calculations and you have the answer.

Bleh, this is not 'job', I do not want to do something boring just because I wish to know quite a common knowledge. I want to have fun. Druids are no fun for me. At all, no way. And all I want is just some information.

There will be times you want to make a decision to set aside your personal time to learn things you don't necessarily think will be 'fun' about the game.

This is what separates CF pkers from CF newbies and other playerkillers on other MUDS:

You could spoonfeed all the mechanical #### in the world and none of it makes you learn things as quickly or as thoroughly as personal experience. Even CF veterans forget this a time or two especially when they get caught up in number crunching because of frustration with one thing or another.

But the people who are self-actualized in the world will go and get their hands dirty to find this information out on their own. The game is not meant for you to have even a chance against other classes simply by reading helpfiles and having the mechanics and tactics spoonfed to you.

How do you know a druid isn't fun for you if you've never played one? You say you're a mage player -- to me, a druid plays very 'magey' in style. Not exactly, of course, because we strive for the classes to be different.

Beyond that, 'try it' is the answer you get because it honestly is always the best answer. People can answer your questions all day, but probably you won't be asking the right questions.

Or, look at it this way: If you ask on the forums about how to beat a druid, you will have mixed results. Probably you'll get some good answers and some ####ty answers, and if you had any idea how to separate the two you wouldn't be asking in the first place. Sometimes people will genuinely be trying to help you but have it all wrong, and sometimes people who could really lay it out for you can't be bothered.

In the game, though? No one really wants to lose. If you bring a druid at someone and try to kill you, they're going to try to live. You'll see first hand what works and what doesn't. That guy who thinks bash will beat druid every time? You'll smoke that guy. (Probably.) The elitist who doesn't want to tell you his secret druid-beating technique? He'll sure bust it out to kill you if he can. Pay enough attention and you'll have the real answers no matter what.

I can understand not wanting to play everything, but understand that you're always working with second-best information that way, even if it comes from me.

I just do not want to play it. How do I know? Well, its just feeling :)
I like my current chars and do not wish to delete them. And "to be uber PKiller" is not my goal of life, so I am satisfied with "secondary answers". I get what I was need: gear for +str (and how much and where to get some gear) and svs (if I got your answer right about saves) + tips from Keshuk + some info about "full moon" and such. I am not "druid bane" now, but got what I need.

Again. thanks for answers above.

What they are saying is, after your current character, if you want to find more out, try one out. When I first started, I play one character to CON death, then proceeded to try about 5 or 6 others, all different class/races for a short time just to get the feel of them. These were the combos that whooped on me during that first characters.

What I figured out? It wasn't the combo that was so amazing, it was the fact that I sucked and the other players behind the combos were so good.

Now if I can only get over the "I suck" hump, I'll be much happier.

>I get what I was need: gear for +str
>(and how much and where to get some gear)

Well, maybe, maybe not. If you're a mage, you may not care a whole lot if you lose your weapon fighting a druid one on one.

In other words, you always would like to have a ton of +stats, a ton of hp, a ton of saves, etc... but realistically each of those comes at the expense of the others. If I'm an invoker I might just let you try to strength out my weapon because I might think I can do enough damage with my spells in the time it takes you to do it that you can't capitalize on it in a useful way before you have to clear out or die. (Or, I might just get a very light weapon since the purpose of my weapon is probably to parry and I don't care if it's average 8 or 28.)

If your satisfied with secondary answers to your questions, expect to Always be a secondary player, and a pk padding.

You have a history of not understanding something, chastising it, being explained to, then again, chastising it because you dont understand it and the figurative spoon your looking for doesnt have enough pudding on it.

You might think you have the answers, with what little comprehension you might have half-developed through half-reading replies and useful information, and you also might have some half-understandings on what you think you know regarding skills/spells and how they interact with you but seriously, until you stop looking for the super secrets, scavanging other peoples information, and stop settling for scraps, your never going to amount to anything past the little kid in the corner screaming overpowered, and thats just the truth.

Why do you even bother asking questions if you dont want to hear the answers?

I told you to play one, because I myself had absolutely no understanding of the Druid class and was getting raped left and right by them, until I played one. After playing one, (or any class for that matter) you not only try something new, but you learn the ins and outs of the class and its weaknesses. This is how I was able to kill Ambra with a duergar thief (Ambra can two round ANY duergar in the right settings) using nothing but a stone knife, a stone mace, and knife. Why? Because I know how to tone down her power, I know how to cut off her communes, and I know what she needs to have available to properly be the devestating machine that can be.


Try to play one, is not a smart ass answer, but getting pissy over me suggesting as much, is a dumb ass thing to do.


-Rogue

afsasfd

I'd put druid near the top, mainly because of primordial vengeance. With a different class I can at least attempt to run away on foot once insected. Given how much wilderness you have to walk through to get back to the Prosimy road, and given that the druid will have put briars outside the cabal entrance...the odds of making it back to the road are slim unless you beat up the druid so badly that he's too weak to pursue.

I sure can. The would be "the last one that had insects". When they lack insects I can just avoid them whenever the moon is full. With insects they're a potential worry 24/7.

>who agrees that fighting a druid is annoying?

They're strong in a full moon but I don't even notice them during the rest of the time. I tend to play "tanky" chars though who can usually deal with their charmies.

Anyway, I stopped reading the guy's post when I saw "thornheart is overpowered". He's just trolling. See Valg's post.

In general, across several of your incarnations, you should thoroughly avoid describing anything (Spores, Dirt Kick, etc.) as "overpowered" or "underpowered".

Start from the assumption that you don't know that aspect of the game very well, read the helpfiles, and just ask questions without the hyperbole.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

any chance we might have at least a hint of how to be rid of spores/thornheart included in the helpfile? Or more specifically, even the fact that they CAN be negated by doing things. They are magical afterall, which most of the time you just expect to wear off, or w/ a counterspell.

Things are going to seem exceptionally overpowered when you aren't even given an idea about how to beat them.

>any chance we might have at least a hint of how to be rid of
>spores/thornheart included in the helpfile? Or more
>specifically, even the fact that they CAN be negated by doing
>things. They are magical afterall, which most of the time you
>just expect to wear off, or w/ a counterspell.
>
>Things are going to seem exceptionally overpowered when you
>aren't even given an idea about how to beat them.

A rational person would ask themselves (and maybe ask everyone else) if everyone is dying to druids. The answer is obviously - no. A rational person might then ask, "How do you avoid dying to spores?" And that rational person would be rewarded with a dozen answers.

Come on dude. Are you trying to milk extra thief points? A third legacy?

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Play one and see if they are overpowered.

If you think Eskelian is talking bull, wait till you've seen his knowledge of druid (and druid leaders). You, sir, are screwed when you think Eskelian is talking out of his ass.

A Chinese saying goes, "If you don't open your mouth, no one will think you are dumb. Till you do, everyone will know your are a fool."

I never kiss ass, I just like to think that I'm a logical and rational person.

A good example is Kanaev. What's the biggest difference between him and you? Mainly that he's good at this game and you suck. That's pretty important to understand before you start saying evil conjurers aren't powerful enough.

See? Logic. Use it once in a while.

.

One of the points I made in my OP is that the helpfiles don't reflect any solution. The OP also made it very clear that I didn't know this aspect of the game very well. Are you reading the post or just the author before responding?

These two sentences have been on the tip of my tongue for the last
few months.

Thornhearts and spores do nice (not for a prey) damage, lower stats pretty well(2 thornhearts = - 8 str, thats enough to drop weapon in many times), last for LONG time AND impossible to heal

So, if to compare them to other similar things - plague/poison, impale/boneshatter, they look like much, much better.
As I know there is the only way to remove them - go to some hot/cold place. As an ap/invoker you can fireball, thanks for trick, Keshuk, it could save my life before.

What are these places? Frozen wastelands, ashes (?), Kiadana, western plains of Udgaard. Maybe there are a few more, I've mentioned most popular.

So, four places to check and druid has the fly form. And you have to run somehow there - losing health/mv/mana on each tick. And those places are wilderness - enter, type 'whe', call hunt 'prey' = PK.

I will emphasize my point once more: good stackable maladictions (like plague) + hard to heal and only in certain places + last long + one round spell and so onn

Why they are not considered overpowered?

Try playing a druid and see. There's a lot more that has to go right for it to play out the way you're saying. Even if you hate it, I bet you'll have a lot more ammunition to fight your next druid enemy with any character with.

Honestly, if you're playing a melee character and you're not some kind of high damage or total command denial build and -8 str will take your weapons, you've got many many more and bigger problems to deal with than thornheart.

>So, if to compare them to other similar things -
>plague/poison, impale/boneshatter, they look like much, much
>better.

Impale does more damage and afaik more str loss. Neither it nor boneshatter is curable in the fashion thorns and spores are. I agree thorns/spores are a pain in the ass...I just think it's an apples to oranges comparison.

>What are these places? Frozen wastelands, ashes (?), Kiadana,
>western plains of Udgaard. Maybe there are a few more, I've
>mentioned most popular.

Hot: ashes, kiadana, burning building in bryn shander (haven't tried, but guessing it would work).

Cold: frigid wastes, felar encampment (near wastes, but might be harder for the druid to find you once he enters the area), that room right in front of the Fortress, possibly Jade Mountains (unless it's only the death-trap rooms that do cold damage- I forget).

Or any underwater place for spores.

The important thing to remember is that you only have to be there for a few hours to cut the duration to a fraction of its original length. That gives the druid 2-3 hours to check approx. 4 different spots that are pretty spread out. I haven't played a druid, but I'm going to assume all that flying around will eat up his herbs and/or movement. If he finds you, just teleport and move to the next spot.

>Why they are not considered overpowered?

One reason is that they're both time and region limited. I don't fight druids when the moon is full. Period. They can't kill me if they can't find me.

>So, four places to check and druid has the fly form. And you
>have to run somehow there - losing health/mv/mana on each
>tick. And those places are wilderness - enter, type 'whe',
>call hunt 'prey' = PK.
>
>Why they are not considered overpowered?

Pretty much everything is overpowered when you don't know anything about how it works. I wouldn't be too worried about druid bird form flying all over Thera finding you.

Listen, try playing the damn game. Its too big for us to explain everything to you.

>In general, across several of your incarnations, you should
>thoroughly avoid describing anything (Spores, Dirt
>Kick, etc.) as "overpowered" or "underpowered".
>
>Start from the assumption that you don't know that aspect of
>the game very well, read the helpfiles, and just ask questions
>without the hyperbole.
>
>valguarnera@carrionfields.com


So which Dioxide VIP is on your IM list?

Orrrr we could look at, say, your last 2 or 3 deletion threads.

I'm just saying.

asfasfasf

...especially as an anti-paladin. Go into a town area and light it on fire with fireball and sit there, suddenly all three are worthless.

My only issue with druids is who the heck thought they needed telluric surge, then made an edge for it to be stronger.

I didn't know you could do that.


Btw, telluric surge seems to be a gimpy stun.

....it can disarm, entangle, freeze (not lag, which eats up commands), feint and do damage - all one-round spammable.

I guess I don't wear enough metal on any of my characters to get screwed up by it.

....it can disarm, entangle, freeze (not lag, which eats up commands), feint and do damage - all one-round spammable.

And Cleave can cut you in half!

Good luck getting Telluric Surge to reliably do all of those things.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

...disarm is pretty reliable with a metal weapon. With irongrip, it was always a feint instead. The freeze may only be half a round but it can eat up commands which can seriously mess things up. The entangle/damage is based on the amount of metal you have.

I fought Ambra a lot, probably more than any other character as Keshuk and I can say without a doubt she did not need this to kick my full a/b/s ass.

...disarm is pretty reliable with a metal weapon.

It's really not. It's not even close to Fumble or any of the more reliable skills, even with all possible Edges in play.

The freeze may only be half a round but it can eat up commands which can seriously mess things up. The entangle/damage is based on the amount of metal you have.

Again, not real hard to fend off, and there's a counter-tactic (amount of metal) if you're terrified of it. And even in the best of scenarios, it's throwing less-than-communing-it lag and some meh damage and meh movement loss. Unless you're really losing the tanking battle to trees/calls, this shouldn't scare you much-- you're throwing a lot more melee damage back.

As for being frozen vs. lagged, I don't think one is worse than the other-- merely different depending on how/when you stack your commands.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

- well the disarm against me seemed pretty reliable, just looking over some logs it worked quite a bit on Ambra vs Keshuk. Granted, she usually had quite a bit of levels on me though. Even if it worked half the time, a one round lag skill is pretty rare among all skills/spells and hard to counter when it did work since they can grab it pretty quick.

- even when I was down to one-two pieces of metal, or even no metal with besides my weapon, the lag was enough to eat a command or two. The only problem on eating commands is when you're doing flee and another command like sleep/teleport/etc, where you need that second command to go off immediately before she refollows. I'd rather it lag and then I get the flee/command off, then have it eat one.

- APs usually loose the tanking battle against druids even with full a/b/s....that call/tree/snake/beast is nasty. I don't know if Ambra has edges or always herbs for it, but that amount of pure damage is just crazy.

I'm not saying it's overpowered directly, I just don't think they needed such a great skill on a class that is already one of the most diverse in the game....before telluric surge, I don't think anyone said "eh, druids need that extra umph". They already arguably have some of the best communes/combos in the game. Even pre-edges, druids had a huge kill ratio with the skilled druids.

As I said on the other forums, there's a reason that Ambra was worth way more charges than anyone else I fought - she's skilled, but it's also a very very deadly class....without telluric surge.

People these days confuse me. I don't see how anyone in their right mind, with any concept of balance, can complain about stuff like "telluric surge" when there are skills like entwine, the hunt, bash, assassinate, etc.

I'm not suggesting entwine is overpowered, but how can you complain about stuff like telluric surge when there are skills that can make it impossible to flee.

That it adds power (and annoyance factor) to a class that is already pretty annoying and hard to kill.

It's enough of a pain in the ass trying to find decent nonmetal weapons to fight a druid - swapping out all the slots in your armor that contain metal just so you can compete is taking it to a new level...

Ambra does make druids look good, however, and I would imagine things are a little different for non-outlander druids.

>That it adds power (and annoyance factor) to a class that is
>already pretty annoying and hard to kill.
>
>It's enough of a pain in the ass trying to find decent
>nonmetal weapons to fight a druid - swapping out all the slots
>in your armor that contain metal just so you can compete is
>taking it to a new level...

Eh. Telluric Surge just isn't that good.

I mean, the class doesn't have any shortage of good offensive spells. We've all seen logs wherein a druid catches someone with their pants down and smokes someone with a couple quick sunrays or fire seeds. I feel a little bad for those guys, and not so much bad for someone who lets themselves get entangled a bunch and then telluric surged a dozen times to death.

If you're fighting druids with metal weapons, that's your first mistake right off. You should really take that and some other material based tactics into affect, before you start thinking how strong they are.


Druids can be devestating, absolutely devestating. With the right conditions they can be nothing more than fire-seed machines and die very, very fast.

You can't use any metal or elemental damage weapon against a druid....try thinking of a polearm that's not either of those. Sometimes it's just not practical and you have to do it. Even with Thunderlance (dragonbone), I was doing non-capitol damage to her with shocking bite when I was doing ***DEMOLISHES*** to normal people.

Granted, I did once kill Ambra and I had on an obsidian axe that did aciditic bite(it's the kill log where you looted ironically)....and it went great. But getting a non-metal and non-elemental weapon that's a great average is *not* easy at all to get.

And yes, I did kill her once for wooden weapons...that's also how I lost an unholy to the "over the limit" on the weapon though, bleh. She also probably knew I was looking for them and didn't carry anything beyond ave 24 that was wooden.

That works against someone really good the first time, so so
the second and then they go straight hth and Its time to rank to fireseeds....ambra. Good thing I had two wooden weapons and just fled removed metal the first time. Never seen it higher ranks.

And about Ambra, I tried this class for the first time, its not as
easy as you would think... its hard to play, when you have alot of people gunning for you and your fights start to become a 1v3 all the time.

And thanks for banning Kobaine and That OtherPerma after I had to rank 5 characters past their cheating asses heh. I wonder if you
think my prays are paranoid or what....But the only chars I have
prayed about, have been denied... Now how long till you ban the 51shapeshifter/15warrior I been talking about. You know...
the Lowbie that shows up after so and so quits out everyonce and a while... to wait at the pit and spam get all pit, guild sit, spam
eq, quit.

I always forget what removes what. Some can be removed by going underwater. I think that's spores. Thornheart is removed by heat or cold. I can think of at least two places that qualify for each.

I'm with you on Primordial vengeance, though. That's nasty. Then again it's negated by going out of the wilderness. That's only really a problem if you have PV *plus* thorns and/or spores. Then just go somewhere and be ready to word/teleport if/when the druid finds you.