Why is it that anti-paladins cannot have multiple unholy weapons? I understand leech kind of makes up for this in being able to transfer charges around to fit situations, but it could easily be argued that having multiple unholy weapons is a vulnerability too (thieves, no max weapon due to charges being distributed).

I'd like to propose a-ps being able to have more than unholy weapon. Whether that is by level (say 45 skill), edge, or a bonus to killing many people, I don't care.

>Why is it that anti-paladins cannot have multiple unholy
>weapons?

You can unholy bless as many weapons as you want.

Go ahead, laugh it up. Thanks for answering though.

That's sort of the idea behind the Soulbind edge -- that you could switch weapons without taking an enormous risk. (Although, obviously, if you've got 10 damroll and 100 hp on your axe and switch to your whip, you're not getting that damroll/hp from the axe when it's in your inventory.)

I wonder how hard it would be for me to retrofit that to 'nodrop, as long as it's in your inventory -- not if you're wielding it'. Seems a little tougher as-is than I had in mind.

Just let APs remove iron-gripped weapons? Maybe if not "suggested".
It could solve alot of problems with weapon switching and two-handed weapons + wands.
And discard the no-drop edge.

>Just let APs remove iron-gripped weapons? Maybe if not
>"suggested".

That's intentionally one of the drawbacks of irongrip.

>It could solve alot of problems with weapon switching and
>two-handed weapons + wands.

Excision.

>And discard the no-drop edge.

The point is that you can swap out your tough unholy and use something else without fear that your tough unholy will instantly be stolen -- giving up its tough stats is risk enough. Otherwise switching weapons even temporarily only feels non-ridiculous as a duergar or Tribunal A-P.

>>Just let APs remove iron-gripped weapons? Maybe if not
>>"suggested".
>
>That's intentionally one of the drawbacks of irongrip.

It was, but maybe let it go away? I don't think it is a big deal considering you will solve assorted problems with it. You can reduce iron grip duraction in return if you feel any balance problems here.

>>It could solve alot of problems with weapon switching and
>>two-handed weapons + wands.
>
>Excision.
>
>>And discard the no-drop edge.
>
>The point is that you can swap out your tough unholy and use
>something else without fear that your tough unholy will
>instantly be stolen -- giving up its tough stats is risk
>enough. Otherwise switching weapons even temporarily only
>feels non-ridiculous as a duergar or Tribunal A-P.

Instead of adding excision and no-drop edge you could just let APs remove iron-gripped weapons. And no-steal is probably slightly "overpowered".
Well, excistion can stay anyway :)
I would vote for free weapon switching for APs. I've used it with my AP too, for example, sometimes I want vault and than switch to my main unholy. Maybe you can do it without risk if you don't put iron grip and get the edge. But again, maybe don't bother with that complicated staff and let APs switch weapons freely.

and steal all his hard-earned a/b/s and other secondary weapons, the nodrop doesn't bother me much even on Cabdru or Ravon.

But then that's only because I've had a change of heart recently regarding cleaning out people's inventories.

So what's with covering all the AP's weaknesses, when they can snowball to become such impossible-to-kill characters?

Paladins so got screwed edge-wise. I said it at the time, and it's still true now. Ap's get a dozen edges that can cover some serious vulnerabilities. Paladins are still very disease prone, heavily energy reliant and can't seal a kill. Yet none of the edges covered those holes nearly as well.

Ap's can now get out of the blinding without preps, switch weapons, dispel communes, get various cleave bonuses (I thought edges weren't meant to make already great options look even more awesome?) and the list goes on. While most AP edges look like 'must haves', I'd pass on most of the paladin ones except for Fury of the Righteous. Which at least sounds pretty powerful, blocking some teleports. Everything else is highly dependant on virtues and really not more than a 'nice little perk'. Where are the earth-shakingly awesome edges for those paladins who are expected to face up to hoards of evil, Ravon-style APs and Liches? Why were things like Steal Life and Crusader's Grip so drastically narrowed down?

Just seems cruel. I still wax paladins when I feel like it. I don't think I ever killed Niheriva, but I did mess him up while he was prepped (and I was unprepped, martial trance only) with Nanorab. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to have such an awesome and well equipped paladin to have trouble facing off with a slippery assassin who was actually putting out TWO maran-healing fire-progs in combat. I very much expected to be smudged. Instead, I managed to beat him off and even get him writhing with health to spare. Bleh. Just not right. More power to such peeps is what I want to see - some kind of good-style equivelent to the power-whores we see on team Evil.

Yhorian

Fighting neutrals is *always* much harder as a paladin. Including for a couple reasons you seem to be unaware of. :)

I would have lost, and gotten sucked into that weapon.

I just don't believe Paladins are anywhere near on-par with Anti-paladins. I think a simple tally of ap vs pal kills would prove this point entirely. Even if you take each ap dead as 2 points, it's going to be heavily skewed in the AP's favour.

Throw them a power bone. They just don't say 'avatar of the light' to me nowadays, they say 'handily over-confident target for abuse'. I'm sure if I had all that dam-redux and self healing as a warrior class, I'd be confident. But they just don't have the tools to back it up past spamming wrath (which is easy to counter, especially for strong ap's/necro's which are their main targets). I'd even go so far as to say, if I were playing an AP, that paladin would be my prime target for some souls. As a necro, the paladin would definetly be a fun target despite saves. Yay ghouls!!

Yhorian

If Nanorab fails to kill any lightwalkers on Niheriva's watch, Niheriva has won. Not to mention that a goodly paladin doesn't necessarily run around murdering neutrals.

It's likely what -some- paladins might aim for far more. But not so much Marans - that's like giving the sheep a rock and saying 'hey, at least you can give that wolf a headache and live another day'. So here's the 'but'...

It just feels teh suck that the supposedly strongest lightwalkers are meant to be paladins - and I'd take a bard over a paladin to deal with either an Anti-paladin or a Necro any day. Better damage redux, better kill-sealing, much better defenses and much more feared abilities. They also still have self healing and can still use some of the very awesome lightwalker EQ out there.

Apart from a fortunate and whily binder thief (vs AP), I'd say a bard had the best shot at handling Mr.Lich or Mr.GodlyAP. Depending somewhat on phylacteries in the former.

Yhorian

Trying to separate an A-p with his unholy at the moment when iron grip drops looks like a viable tactic (except for everybody who's anybody has gear that prevents that, but still).

With soulbind, it suddenly becomes way more difficult, i.e. you have to go the hard way and actually try to do more damage to an A-p in a normal fight.

Agree. When there are edges that I'd pick over most legacies as an A-P then I question whether its in line with what I thought edges were meant to be.

Can you have different controls per weapon at the same time?

That's half of the reason to do it!

Other reasons include:
-If you want to blind someone before you switch to a weapon they might strip, but want to ensure that if they do die before you can switch weapons (e.g. because they dirt kicked you), you still get a charge,
- because you want to vault onto someone and your main unholy isn't a spear (there's a log of me actually summoning a spear wielding mob after sleeping a victim, killing it, blessing the spear, then killing them with it. etc.
- because you want a light weapon for use when heavily maladicted.

I've always done it, with the one exception being when I'd charged up Victoria's whip.

It's good to have one to either act as a decoy (if you have multiples of the same weapon or something more alluring) or to practice with (you don't want to be spamming those spells on your real weapon).

.