As someone who has deleted 4 mages 20-30+ in frustration,
I don't think I'm wrong when I say that the practice code
is screwing me over.

As a mage, I am not taking blows regularily. I do my best to
take blows WHENEVER I can. At level 30, my latest creation
had 76% shield block 75% parry. In the 20s, everytime I grouped
I was taking the blows every chance possible. In the 30s, mobs
were to strong for that.

In my various creations.. the only successfull way to do it was
to stop at 16 and SPAM for days. (16 so I had hand to hand to
help with parry).

This "forget about it and enjoy the game" mentallity is just plain
wrong for non-tankers. Support classes are getting shafted. The
learning curve at higher levels is not good enough. After level 20,
there didn't seem to be any mobs which I use to effectively practice
defenses (I've tried). After level 30, the situation is amplified.

After analyzing the situation, I blame the practice code for the
frustration I've faced. I do not like the choices: spend multiple
hours for a couple days maximizing defenses, or suck for the rest
of your life.

That this system reward old veterans, it is how things should be. The arial warrior of old age, should have more knowledge of parrying than that youngling who just arrived at the peak of guild.

and hoses the full who expects things to work out normally.

First, and most importantly - every change the imm's consider putting in place is first analyzed to see if it will sufficiently piss you off, and perhaps end your whining forever. If the answer is no, that idea is tabled for other better ideas.

Secondly - changes to defenses requiring you to fight tougher mobs in order to improve went in some two or three years ago. Perhaps you should reread the post about the RECENT changes on the announcement board. The recent changes actually increase the odds of improving your defensive skills.

the fact that defenses have not been made harder in any respect should not be mentioned on this thread.

any fighting class character worth his salt will use a weapon you don't know anyway, meaning your parrying will be very poor even if you have it at 100%.

Mages are not about parry, dodge, and shield block really. They are more about avoiding being targeted or reducing the damage through spells.

You blame -something- for all of your problems. Look for a solution within the current framework. Since you were playing a conjie recently...

Gear for hp. Use reduce and enlarge potions to avoid being lagged. Avoid axe and mace specs. Don't spam. Now, when you get engaged by an enemy, you should be able to flee as soon as your servitors get involved, and after that you don't have to tank in most cases.

Also, you don't need to gear for damage like a warrior. You can gear for hp. You can use magic to haste yourself more easily than a warrior and protect yourself more easily with magical sources, since you can use them all whilst a warrior is restricted to potions.

At lvl 30 you haven't reached the peak of your power yet, and mages to tend to be on the defensive until upper ranks (though conjurers are different). Maybe you need to be attacking your enemies while they are already fighting something else, so a mob tanks for you.

I'll respond to it. I've done mages where I spam up defenses
at 16, and I've done mages where I don't.

The mages who spam up defenses at 16 can take a few rounds of hits
against warriors.

The mages who do not spam defenses at 16 get raped.



The evidence is clear, non-tanking classes are obligated to spend
days spamming up defenses early.










My guy had 600 hps at level 30. I went against an elf warrior 5 levels below me. I had a tier3 morosa demon, and a tier3 elemental. I preped (shield) (fly), and (stone skin). He had (haste). He didn't use my vuln against me. I lasted 4 rounds against him, my elemental couldn't hit him.. and the Morosa didn't attack.

The reason I died, is that parry was at 75%, and shield block was at 76%. I had 18 int, and I went out of my way to tank with the character.

I didn't spam, so I was ineffective. 'nuff said.

The reason you died is...

HE HAD HASTE!

Also, what weapon did he use? Is it one you knew? If not, parry would likely be even more useless than it already is against a hasted character.

Shield block is not a great defense against many weapons. It too is virtually useless if the other guy is hasted and you are not.

The reason your elemental couldn't do much to him is...

HE HAD HASTE.

Conjies can haste their servitors, using preps bought in a shop. Had you done that it would have greatly improved your defense and also your attack. More than the shield and stoneskin (particularly as stoneskin can be bypassed frfom what I've seen, if using the right kind of weapons).

Boosting my mana up over 700 with gear so that I can get tier3 servitors..

Using a shield prep,
Using a fly prep,

Bringing up (by luck of the draw) a tier3 Morosa, and tier3 Earth elemental (special cuz I'm a svirfnebli)..

Attacking someone lower level then me.. (levels affect defense %)..

Boosting hps up +200 from gear..





If I would of had decent defenses, I would of rolled over him. I needed more time in combat.. which would happen if I had good defenses.

I just hate spamming, so I'm gonna go with my gut and give this game up.

The key word in that sentance is almost. Farethewell.

why not enlarge yourself, improving your chances of fleeing and letting your elemental take the blows.

why not shockwave/incinerate to start the fight so your elemental takes the blows?

Wrong elemental to do these things? Then change your tactics accordingly. (ie consider not fighting on his terms.)

You walked in on him? Perhaps you should have let him come to you.

Controlling lag is, in my opinion, a lot more important tactically than controlling damage, especially where survival is concerned.

>The evidence is clear, non-tanking classes are obligated to
>spend
>days spamming up defenses early.

You're welcome to draw whatever conclusions you like from your experiences, but don't expect us to take them seriously or change the game as a result if our mileage varies.

:D

As someone who has deleted 4 mages 20-30+ in frustration,
I don't think I'm wrong when I say that the practice code
is screwing me over.

1) Deleting characters ASAP isn't as good as playing one for a longer period of time, since all abilities reset when you reroll, and you're not taking advantage of an incentive system based on longevity.
2) It doesn't overwhelmingly bother me if magi take a while to learn combat tanking skills. I mean, they're magi. Most magi have a high enough INT that they improve at an impressive rate in any case. If you choose one of the combos that isn't exceptional in that regard, that's just a drawback of that particular combo, and not something that indicates that all defense improvement needs to be accelerated or anything.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

I have to admit, you never fail to deliver. Couple of thoughts.

1. The classes that have the hardest time mastering defenses, i.e. those that don't usually tank, are typically the ones that need it least. It will make your life more difficult but it won't shaft you the way it would shaft a warrior.

2. Be creative. I mastered defenses with an elf tranny *as a hero* before the practice changes. It required some funky exploration knowledge, but hey, you do what you gotta do. Sometimes a piece of healing gear is all it takes to put a particular race/class in the position to tank near-indefinitely.

3. With my current character I've noticed that my defenses often improve during PK fights. This suggests a really cheesy path to mastery. There's probably code in place to make this more difficult, but then again there's probably a simple way to circumvent it (*).

(*) I don't know of any off-hand, nor have I tried to find one.

>As someone who has deleted 4 mages 20-30+ in frustration,
>I don't think I'm wrong when I say that the practice code
>is screwing me over.

Honestly? How so? Personaly, I have a mage and honestly, I (IC speaking) am about dumber than a box of rocks... hey, rocks are cool...



>As a mage, I am not taking blows regularily.

Oh thank god.

>I do my best to
>take blows WHENEVER I can.

And you made it to 30+?

>At level 30, my latest creation
>had 76% shield block 75% parry.

Really?... Mages, as far as I can see, are power hitters... They don't win battles, they make them shorter. If that makes sense.

> In the 20s, everytime I
>grouped
>I was taking the blows every chance possible.

Not many mages, probably short of certain shape-shifter forms, make good tanks, again, not what I think they were intended for.

In the 30s,
>mobs
>were to strong for that.

For mages, yes, gernerally they are. Bards on the other hand, I've found, are quiet good, not perfect, but good, at tanking... At least for a while, and I won't promise anything.

>
>In my various creations.. the only successfull way to do it
>was
>to stop at 16 and SPAM for days.

As I said, my non-to-bright mage, who I think is doing excellent, is having no spam based problems. I don't spam, I refuse to, then again we each have our faults. *wink* Anyway, he is having no problem what so ever mastering each new (important that is) spell he achieves.

(16 so I had hand to hand
>to
>help with parry).


>

>**This "forget about it and enjoy the game" mentallity is just
>plain
>wrong for non-tankers.

I beg to differ. Role Playing... *taps his head* anywhere..

> Support classes are getting shafted.
>The
>learning curve at higher levels is not good enough.

See above... Every class is different and unique. Every class isn't for every person. There are the ones we like, and the ones we don't. From what I hear, things are balanced certain ways for a reason. Just look around, find what You like, and go with It.


> After
>level 20,
>there didn't seem to be any mobs which I use to effectively
>practice
>defenses (I've tried).


After level 30, the situation is
>amplified.
>
>After analyzing the situation, I blame the practice code for
>the
>frustration I've faced.

...

I do not like the choices: spend
>multiple
>hours for a couple days maximizing defenses, or suck for the
>rest
>of your life.
>

No, no, no... Ok, there is only one way is "suck for the rest of your life", in Carrionfields. And, to me, that is living a life that amounts to nothing. So you can't tank... then don't try. YOU, supposing there's a reason your not letting others tank, can command. If they don't know, tell them. Teach them the knowledge you know... and tanking, or not, you'll make a difference.