Ok reading bug threads...

I would like to make an argument what nodisarm weapons
a) SHOULD NOT be dropped via strength loss
b) SHOULD be removed via kotegaeshi wrist crunch

In case a) - you are weakened but your arm is functional.
Nodisarm weapon magically sticks to your hand and you could keep swinging it.

In case b) - your wrist is useless.
While weapon might be still in your grasp, you physically unable to use your hand. It is just not responding to your commands and/or extremely painful for you to use.
Imagine trying to wiggle your fingers when your palm handing perpendicular and sideways to your arm.

PS Same applies to nodisarm shields/intruments/lights/warbanners/etc

Nodisarm is a flag that is applied to only very rare weapons. As far as I know, its so rare, it only covers like - some swords, a few axes and a mace. I know of no other nodisarm class weapons. (poor polearms :p) These weapons can only be taken off by the player wielding it either by dying or 'removing' it himself and giving it away. That means there is absolutely NO way to get rid of their weapon when they have on of these rare weapons - even if you're strength is set to 3 and your wrist is broken. I'm fairly sure it covers things like fiends that scare you into dropping your weapon, and nerve poison, muscle disruption, etc. too.

It is not the 'noremove' flag. That simply means it sticks to your hand and cannot be removed. Nodisarm weapons can be manipulated in every way without a penalty. Its by design that noremove weapons can be dropped by wrist breaking, strength loss, etc (buggy that kuo-toa shields strip them too, but no one seems to want to fix that). All the other items that are noremove follow the same principal, except they cannot be manipulated at all until uncursed or your wrist is broken (since strength loss doesn't effect shields, instruments, etc). Noremove weapons are useful because they can't be easily disarmed but they are nowhere near as powerful as nodisarm weapons. If they were, we'd have a huge lot of power-house sword/axe warriors doing a lot more pain with completely unremovable beastly weapons.

Don't confuse the two.

What he was saying is that you shouldn't be able to use a nodisarm weapon even with a broken wrist. Because, even though it might stick to his hand they should be unusable. He

But there's a problem with this.. "sticking to his/her hand but is unusable" is probably what should happen to simple noremove weapons if your strength is dropped or wrist is broken..

The fact that you can use nodisarm without strength (and now with a broken wrist) indicates that those weapons do, in fact, fight for themselves and don't really require the wielder to do anything. Anyway, I think that nodisarm weapon suck due to overpoweredness and shouldn't exist. But if they are to stay, they could be changed to "possessed weapons" that don't depend on the wielder's weapon skill, but rather on the possessing being's fighting skill and how much it likes the wielder.

>The fact that you can use nodisarm without strength (and now
>with a broken wrist)

Nodisarm has always worked with a broken wrist, when I changed wield/dual wield I broke that functionality which I recently fixed.

Talking about 'nodisarm instruments, lights, etc'. That's noremove. And nodisarm doesn't 'stick', its a completely free weapon. It just will not be forced from its users grasp - the wielder can manipulate it however he wants. If you really want to use 'throwdown' to remove your humansunders, they aren't about to stick. I will however be stalking you to pick them up.

And as for the 'fights by themselves' idea, I have to agree, its a fishy thing to envisage IC. This paladins body is essentialy crippled beyond belief, into negative moves, strength and dex are 3, negative mana and still swinging because he happened to grab a humansunder sword? That's one cracked out image.

I don't like the idea of 'posessed weapons fighting for anyone' because I could see invokers with humansunder running about doing very evil things. Except, they'd be constantly hoarded by conjurers. And imagine a healer with Mel'kartha. Classes that really shouldn't have an axe, would have a very sweet nodisarm axe. Yeah.

But you're onto something with them needing some kind of image tweaking and the 'fights by itself' idea fits nicely. I just think its got to be someone who knows how to hold one for game balance ;)

Yhorian.