I just recently returned to playing the game because CF has given me so much in the way of entertainment and I hate to see it wither the way to nothing. However, I'm really starting to question whether the game is worth saving if all it's doing is giving assholes a place to practice their assholery. I'm not going to mention specific incidents because it's really not the point to call attention to this foolishness or to give these assholes the attention they so desperately long for.

Instead, I'm calling out the playerbase and begging everybody that plays to ask themselves a simple question each time they think about doing something that toes the line of sporstmanship: Would I do this if the person on the receiving end were sitting in the same room with me?

If you have reason to believe that whatever you're about to do would end up getting you knocked the #### out if the victim had the opportunity maybe you shouldn't do it. If you pull that #### on a newbie they're probably not going to enjoy CF enough to continue playing.

Things that fall in this category include: actions that lead to exp penalties, actions that lead to hours of sitting around doing nothing, and actions that give you an unfair advantage due to abuse of game mechanics.

Thank you and have a nice day.

propose a counter offer. All the old vets let bygones be bygones and give cf another shot. While we're at it, grab a friend or four and get them to try it. I'm officially back from my warcraft experiment, and playing regularly again. My pledge of non-assholery is that I promise not to full loot anyone with this or future characters.

Was this prompted by the Dio's log? If so, any staff care to comment? Short version:

Neutrals killing dwarves in Akan, goodie shaman tells them to stop, they don't, shaman summons an elite dwarven guard to the room right after they attack one of the shoppies, lowbie dies.

it falls in the category. I have no problem with it from an RP standpoint, but in these days of a dwindling playerbase you have to be mindful of the other people trying to play the game around you. The better choice there would've been to find some people to come in and pk them.

Yeah, I don't see that as any better. That way, they die and get looted.

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"I have to admit I hate pretty much all of these ideas. :)" - Nepenthe, on New Ranger Skills

When I started playing CF, I wasn't interested in fast leveling at all. The most attractive aspect of the game has always been PK for me. If I leveled fast, I just got destroyed. So I level sat until I could hold my own at a certain level, then levelled a bit, level sat again and so on. I think this made the whole learning curve a lot less painful for me.

Is really not like having a big shiny gold neutral star on your forehead that makes everything you're doing ok. Maybe it was kind of a jerky thing to do, but maybe the neutral guy should have given a little more thought to what he was doing. Not to say neutrals can't or shouldn't do evil things, but I hope there's a good RP justification for it. "I need xp" isn't good enough.

As to Wilhath's post, I totally agree. I always try and treat the pc's the way I'd want to be treated.

From a RP point of view, it makes sense that neutrals should hesitate about killing goodie/neutral mobs.. Since neutrals are barred from player killing without RP reasons (gets you turned evil (*mutter*)). Which in turn is in line with treating NPC:s the same as PC:s (a principle which is firmly applied at times, and ignored at other times.)

On the flipside, if neutrals need a RP reason to kill non-evil / non-aggro sides, it would kind of lead to a merging of neutral and good alignments.. Since neutral roles usually lack have a natural resaon to kill most non-evil beings; thus it still boils down to "i kill these things because i need training/XP/EQ/whatever - killing from greed. evil."

It's complex.

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First off, I've always felt that part of the responsibility that comes with being a veteran of CF is to make every attempt to increase the enjoyment of other players through my own actions, both PK and RP. I also understand that not everyone feels the same way, so when I'm on the receiving end of the full-loot, sac everything, "I PWNED YOU, BITCH!!!!!", multi-kill, I try to let it roll off me. Hard sometimes, but not impossible. So I support whatever personal Gentleman's Agreement you (meaning anyone) want to play by, but I throw a word of caution out there with it: those sort of self-imposed rules make it a lot easier to get disproportionally pissed off at someone who doesn't follow them.

Also realize that you might not know the whole story. Sure, some dude kills you on Eastern Road and you come back to an empty corpse. Easy to assume he took all your stuff. Odds are a lot greater that your gear is now spread out among three to four players, one of whom might actually return some of it to you.

Bottom line for me is to do unto others as I'd want them to do unto me. Maybe I'm an optomist, but I firmly beleive that, eventually, your positive behavior will have a good influence on the negative behavior around you. Good RP breeds good RP and all that.

So, with all that in mind, I checked the log out. In a nutshell, I don't have a problem with it, though I'll explain my thoughts.

From the shaman's perspective, his ability to summon an elite guard was his only means of protecting the innocent dwarves. He asked the group to leave, and apparently used this tactic in the Whispering Wind Inn, so they knew there were consequences to their actions. Good RP? Sure, and I applaud his willingness to sit in Akan and RP with a lowbie ranking party there.

From the lowbie's perspective, yeah, it sucked to die (it always sucks to die), but there was at least RP involved (the guy wasn't just being a random tool) and he got all his stuff back (I assume). I'd say that's a pretty benign death, as far as deaths go, and an opportunity to develop the RP of his character more. Maybe now he really hates dwarves, or shamans, or that particular shaman's Diety. Maybe he repents for killing dwarves, and will be their protector and friend for all time. Who knows, but my point is, it's an opportunity.

Finally, it's not against the rules. It was at one point, but that was when you could still summon aggro / area attack mobs to Market Square and loot the lowbie corpses as a 'regearing' technique. Which, I think we can all agree, is not something a Gentleman should do!

Kastellyn the Devourer of Magic, Lord of Legends

Two things: The do unto others things works. It may not work in the midbie-lowbie ranges (where most assbags are stuck) but if you have a rep in the hero range for being an assbag, you'll be treated like an assbag and vice versa. Exceptional situations exist where you may not get the return on your not-being-an-assbag investment, but more times than not, it will pay off.

Secondly, (I wish I thought of things like this) the roleplay opportunity there is awesome. Any one of the things Kasty suggested are neat little things that give your character that little extra depth that seperates it from the rabble... Plus, if you've been warned by a higher level character (especially one that can do something about it) and you don't change your behavior... you shouldn't be suprised when you get smacked down for it. You should be thankful that they can't pk you into oblivion, and begin plotting sweet sweet revenge.

>back (I assume). I'd say that's a pretty benign death, as far
>as deaths go, and an opportunity to develop the RP of his

I'd much rather be full-looted then take a mob-death. Especially at those levels. I'd say that until at least level 25, your EQ is likely to be garbage, and your main goal is just to rank up into the fun ranges. I mean, I know some people are into the whole "PK at all levels" thing, but in my experience, lowbie fights are rarely very interesting.

That said, I agree with most of what you said. The RP there was solid. However, I think it would've been better if the shaman had warned them about what he was going to do. It would achieve the same effect (stopping them from ranking on the dwarves) and wouldn't have resulted in an out-of-range pk/mob death. I do tend to think that out-of-range kills are poor form from a gameplay perspective, no matter how justified they are rp-wise.

how is a mob death at low levels not infinitely easier to overcome than at high levels? You will have to kill maybe 10 extra mobs to overcome the hole. Those mobs go down fast. There is very little risk. Overall it is just plain easier to gain exp faster at low levels than high levels... I just don't understand this reasoning. It seems completely irrational.

>I do tend to think that out-of-range kills are poor
>form from a gameplay perspective, no matter how justified they
>are rp-wise.

There's always going to be out-of-range influence on PK; I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

For one thing, it discourages blowing off higher level characters because you're not in their PK yet. Like in this situation. :)

I had a lowbie mouth off to my high-bie in a totally un-rp'd way, because he knew I couldn't do anything to him.

Sadly, he knew wrong, because I summoned a devil using a certain object and it prevented him from fleeing from the mob he was fighting.

The imm in question didn't seem too concerned that some lowbie had been treating my high-bie like he was a complete wimp. I was told in no uncertain terms that if I did it again...

Personally, I liked creating consequences to actions like that. As a lowbie, I always rp an element of fear/respect for much higher level characters.