this guy is obviously undead most likely non corporeal undead, how about actually making him that?

Aside from "so necromancers could counterraid solo in about 4 rounds", which would be the major consequence.

Shokai's background/mythology could be read a number of ways there. Fortress's outer is certainly nothing I'd expect a mortal necromancer to have domain over, however.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Obviously if it is undead even holy undead necros as masters of undead should have some oomph.

combine that with the fact that when fort is in power its really really invincible. When was the last time you had to retrieve against a mob of hero healers and paladins.

personally I think home turf is too strong at outer guardians when the little guys get kicked down their only real hope of getting back on the horse is for the other guys to log off. Making lowbie retrieval more viable in these situations could help in mainting a better cabal war balance instead of the current way that at different day times different cabals are totally supreme.

and not just the fort does this but when empire is in power (especially with a healer) it becomes pointless to even try. Same goes for tons of high rank tribs and occasionally goodie outlanders. Personally I think pk range exists for a reason and people should have a lot less influence on people out of it especially on players lower in pk range.

Make retriavals more standard across the board and you will see a lot more back and forth action and help weaker cabals to get more members stronger.

f

make it like the rest of the cabals, the problem with fort outer is sometimes you have that unbelievable pc supprot and sometimes you don't making it hard to balance. solve the problem by applying the same rules to the mob that you do all other undead (or at least apply handicaps along those lines) and make it on par in terms of hp and whatnot of the other outers and dum de dum you have achieved a more stable balance.

Then we'd have people bitching about how you acnt blind the fort outer, and it disarms the #### out of you. No thanks.

Then we'd have people bitching about how you acnt blind the fort outer, and it disarms the #### out of you. No thanks.

1) The Fort outer isn't all that. I'm sorry, it's just not. I'd think a reasonably veteran player would "get" that.

2) The Fort outer actually has the least HP of all outer guardians, last I checked.

3) A necromancer can blow through any outer crazy fast already. Realistically, faster than any other single character except an A-P of the scale reached probably less than ten times in CF's history or maybe a passably lucky RBW. (Inners can be a mixed bag, depending.) This doesn't need to be faster.

4) Necromancers might like it if the Fort Outer was undead. It would make it harder to kill for damn near every other character.

I was thinking of how much it sucked for non forts when they hold the scepter/codex and have no lowbies on yet can still totally negate a retrieval attempt with lots of pc healers and paladins.

Yes as I veteran player I know that without pc supprot the maran is a #### and that he is made that way because the fort has the most healer capaple players of any cabal.

Personally I think it would be more gravy all around if the number of pc healer types was not such a huge factor in determing the strength of the maran. Currently its generally a total pushover or invincible.

I don't think fort is the only cabal that this type of power balance exists in when it comes to defense against out of range or even in range characters. Empire with centurions and tribunal with high level guards have the potential to also detract from out of range retrieval.

I think that if you already have this power force at hero it discourages players from opposing cabals to log on and play because they not only are going to get outnumbered but they also are penalized by having a lesser chance of powers.

Low and mid level characters play less for the same reason, they want powers to feel safe or at least safer and if the other side is constantly holding your item (even when they have no defenders in your pk) the group of lower level characters ranks slower. Thus it takes longer for a pendulem shift.

The game is the most fun when the sides are all in relative balance and we end up with back and forth fighting instead of roving hunting parties and people spending all their time avoiding everyone.

If there are no heros to oppose then the defendee's can retake the item and that act is more fun then sitting in front of a mob spamming co sanc co rejuv !!!!!!! for ever. In fact thisis my pet peeve with the village when defenders are told to sit and field dress up the giant.... my god does it take forever to heal a mob 200 hp every couple of ticks.

on a seperate but related note I think that when giving aid to lower range characters the help should be less then what someone your pk would get. I mean its better to have a hero healer then a healer your own rank any day of the week on every single level especially cause they are not only likely to be untouchable but they have more mana and heal more effectively.

if you decrease healing on mobs across the board you end up with less one bored healer/paladin ruining the fun of groups of three trying to rank. Yeah its a valid rp outlet for the paladin to aid goodies but you just pissing off 3 people at the expense of one.

I've seen rank 30+ warriors get owned by the outer. Why? Because it hits a vuln. Its the ONLY outer to hit a vuln. It makes duergar/orcs its little bitch. Its not a pushover, its just fine the way it is. Try raiding outlander when they have bioempathy on you. Then we'll hear you bitch about that.

A lich/mummy with an army or a supped up anti-paladin?

A goodie can become strong through carefully chosen elite gear, but there are evil advantages and nasty evil-gear thats often better. There is no doubt that all the healing on the good side of things makes it great for defense. But that is because the dark-side has a lot of offensive power and nastiness. Healing curse can be used to nullify the above advantage, no amount of healing can stop an absed AP with a decent weapon and there is any number of ways an evil person can get nasty gear for themselves that goodies can't. Especially with the tendancies of goodly priests not to want to kill 'innocents' for gear, preps, wands, etc.

What you're seeing, is goodies at their best. You're not about to win that sort of fight against anyone who is in power. And to be fair, one healer would likely provide all the defense needed to keep lowbies out of it. At least long enough for them to call for assistance. Enjoy!

Yhorian.

I understand that anyone at their best is tough. That is in fact the root of the problem when it comes to cabal wars and I think the problem is focused in 3 cabals, empire, fort, and tribunal.

Each of those three cabals has ultimate trump cards in cabal defense when they hive high numbers of heros and it makes it very difficult to play on the other side. I believe that by making these trump cards less effective when it comes to counter raiding will give weaker cabals a better shot at evening the playing field. While there have always been pendulem shifts throughout our history with a decling playerbase we have less to move the pendulum and it can get stuck.

Just ask yourself this as a player. what is more fun. A sitting at centurions or the maran spamming co rejuv and the like. or B hey they just took it back lets go get it again.

in B you also have a higher chance of a lone enemy hero sticking around because the lower guys can retrieve and give him cabal powers and more of a chance against the horde. This in turn leads to more enemies and eventually it becomes a more even battle. Or at least the folks crippled with numbers are not as crippled as much of the time.

Just because it is the essence of soemthing that was once alive, does not make it "undead". Generally speaking in games like this as a sweeping statement, necromancers draw power from the prime negative plane (not saying this is cf mythos here) and undead are anchored in the same plane. Tara'bal are more akin to angels than undead.

I've had a pretty easy time taking it down via hit and run most of the time. Yes, it's a fact that a healer in combination with others makes it tough. On the other hand, a healer alone is pretty well neutered by dirt kicking. I'd much rather try to retrieve against a mob of 2 healers and 2 paladins than say, a transmuter and any warrior. The healers and paladins are very unlikely to kill you if you play conservatively, but if you can't outright kill the transmuter and warrior there's a good chance you won't get away.

Generally speaking, any cabal can be retrieved against by 3 determined heros against almost any number of other characters. The time it takes to get to most cabals often means that the outer is all but dead by the time defenders get there. You might end up dead, but if you just keep focused on the outer you'll almost certainly take it down.

But yes, if it's you and one other guy against two healers, a paladin and an invoker, you're pretty much screwed. Although, to be honest, I think any two characters have a pretty good chance of taking down the outer if the potential defenders are anything but exceptionally vigilant. It might take some patience and persistance though.