Since it was put in to help them from getting beat up before Legacies were put in, are you going to remove them to balance them out again?

Also, why is that my major water form with full abs can't stand toe to toe against warriors? Against any other class is okay. There's not much a shifter can do with a water form, but that probably goes back to the question 'shifters need to have more skills'. Makes it moot.

Also, dirt kick is the bane of every shifter. Dirt kick, flee. Ugh.

Shifter downgrades + legacies + warrior hp were all planned events, from what I gather. It's not like one was added without considering that the other was already in place.

I don't know what water form you have, but some are better than others. Generally speaking, though, water forms are among the strongest shifter forms available from a melee perspective. If a warrior is beating your water form when you have full a/b/s...then either he's also prepped to the gills (hah), you're not skilled at your form, or there's a severe gear disparity going on. Or some combination of the three.

Also, he may have chosen legacies that are ideally suited towards enhancing his melee ability. That would mean other non-shifter mages (say, necromancers) might not find him especially challenging (compared to warriors in general).

If a warrior is beating your water form when you have full a/b/s...then either he's also prepped to the gills (hah), you're not skilled at your form, or there's a severe gear disparity going on. Or some combination of the three.

This just isnt the case.

n/t

In that case you might just be getting outplayed. :)

Many of Gohum's PK wins came that way. The chase was always the hard part. I admit that your experience of water shifters is superior to mine, but I don't remember losing to a lone warrior more than once as walrus. Other forms are out of my personal expertise, though.

.."This just isn't the case."

Ok.. why not?

He brings up a point that if you have extreme dam-redux going on, and still getting nowhere, the warrior is hasted, stoneskined, protected from align, or what have you. Why would you disagree with this, being a seemingly valid point.

He brings up the possibility your "Form Skill" is less than confident, which would in turn not have it fighting up to par, also a valid point, I think. Why would you think this not the case?

Another imho Very valid point, gear disparity. With Ustil, I could have my gear ranging my HP from 400hp - 1300hp. Obviously, if my Hyena form had 1300hp going into a fight, I could stay in a lot longer, and deal out a lot more damage before (if I even had to) fleeing.

I'm sure you've put out a slew of powerful shapeshifters, however just staying you disagree and reiterating your disagreement without any basis of view what-so-ever just seems like a waste of a post.

Offer your case?

My point is this. Water majors are not one-sided and overpowered. More times you will fully prep, and have to retreat near dead than 'overpower' and destroy said villager. His post of you must not be skilled in form, or geared properly...I didnt agree with. All my water shifters have 1300-1500, plus full preps. Its not a mater of extreme skill to swimto and murder. If he flees repeat. So its not like shifter tactics come into play.

Sure there are whittle down kills or kills on non defensive specs. My comment was to water shifters having troubles with defensive spec warriors. (modestly prepped)

Villager comes to ocean. Calls up resist. Stands there.

Water shifter with 1300-1500 hp, plus ABS swims to and attacks. No commands to enter or skills to use on the warrior.

Warrior thirsts, shifter retreats, heals up...

Usually warrior is pretty banged up however, and on way back to village might be brought down from a second strike.

Im just saying by no means are water shifters dominating agaisnt defensive spec warriors. Alot of the time you are looking for voker shields to further add to your damage reduction.

Alright the walrus is able to do better agaisnt warriors. Why? Beacause it have unblockable gore which negates the defensive specs a bit.

Heres a prepped dolphin log. Invoker shields as well as tattoo effects. This is fight number 4 from up till this point VERY onesided wins by him. THree losses before this. (Where I fled with my tail between my legs, or barely made scratch on him. This win occurred only becasue his prep (call resist) dropped. ALso maybe he wasnt geared as good as he usually was here. Vershelt was still a beast even with practice swords.)

Vershelt the cloud giant is here.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM Vershelt yells 'Help I am being attacked by a blue dolphin '
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound DISMEMBERS Vershelt
Vershelt has a few scratches.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound misses Vershelt.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt has a few scratches.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM where
invoke lyristeon

Vershelt swats your pound away from him.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound MANGLES Vershelt
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Vershelt's eyes become bloodshot and his face contorts into a mask of rage
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM People near you:
(PK) a blue dolphin The Great Reef
(PK) Vershelt The Great Reef
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1377hp 518m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM A tattoo of a Gaping Maw howls a piercing sound
The eyes of Vershelt cross, then float aimlessly
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound MANGLES Vershelt
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1358hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Vershelt gets a wild look in his eyes.
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1358hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Your pound MANGLES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt's wrath injures you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt has some small but disgusting cuts.

1343hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
Vershelt's wrath MASSACRES you
Vershelt's wrath injures you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1242hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 7 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1242hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt tries to strike the same place with both his swords.
Vershelt's thrust mauls you.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1219hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 8 PM
A blazing beacon ignites off the westward coast.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.
1219hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt dodges your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1219hp 468m 641mv 24350tnl 8 PM

Autosaving.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1224hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1205hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1205hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1205hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt tries to thrust both his swords at you, but they get crossed.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1205hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
Vershelt's wrath MASSACRES you
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1108hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt dodges your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1108hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1108hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt stops your pound just before it reaches him.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath injures you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1093hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt stops using 'Vengeance', the Shining Sword.
Vershelt dual wields a guardian sword.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1093hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt tries to thrust both his swords at you, but they get crossed.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1093hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound and returns an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1076hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt swats your pound away from him.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1076hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1076hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
A piece of drift wood floats eastward.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1076hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1076hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt tries to strike the same place with both his swords.
Vershelt's thrust mauls you.
Vershelt's thrust misses you.
Vershelt is covered with bleeding wounds.

1055hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound and returns an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

1037hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM where
People near you:
(PK) a blue dolphin The Great Reef
(PK) Vershelt The Great Reef
Vershelt is gushing blood.

1037hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 8 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

1037hp 453m 666mv 24350tnl 9 PM look ver
About 14 feet high and seemingly equally wide, this large being hovers just
before you. His feet, shod in thick boots and splayed out wide for a solid
stance, rise a few inches above the ground, giving an almost impossible
sense of grace and fragility to this otherwise enormous and thick man of
violence. About his torso is wrapped a cloak of fur and leather, covering
what seems to be armor of various metals and shapes. A few weapons peek out
from his belt and behind his head, arising from his long, flat back.
Staring back at you, he seems ready to act at a moment's notice, his eyes
flitting about. Taking a final look upon him, you are quite sure that
Vershelt, a male cloud giant, is too covered in blood to tell his condition.

Vershelt is using:
(Glowing) (Humming) an Arkham signet ring
a pitch-black ring
an iron-studded collar
an iron-studded collar
a set of golden plate armor
an ogre-horned helm
(Humming) a pair of ebonscale greaves
a pair of steel-toed boots
a pair of black steel gauntlets
a pair of jagged arm guards
a tattered, color shifting cloak
a forest-green, woven belt
a malachite bracelet
(Glowing) a brilliant silver bracelet
a two-handed black sword
(Glowing) (Humming) a guardian sword
Vershelt is gushing blood.

1042hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Knocking your pound harmlessly aside, Vershelt slides in an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt parries your pound and returns an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt delivers a blow of deadly force
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

988hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Your pound MASSACRES Vershelt
Vershelt dodges your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

988hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt tries to strike the same place with both his swords.
Vershelt's thrust wounds you.
Vershelt's thrust mauls you.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

945hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

945hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound and returns an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is gushing blood.

928hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt dodges your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound EVISCERATES Vershelt
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You desperately dodge around Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

928hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound DISMEMBERS Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath injures you.
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

894hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt tries to strike the same place with both his swords.
Vershelt's thrust mauls you.
Vershelt's thrust decimates you
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

846hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound and returns an attack of his own.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt parries your pound.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

827hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt knocks your pound aside before it gets near him.
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

827hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 9 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
The rain ceases.
Vershelt is writhing in agony.

827hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 10 PM
Your pound MANGLES Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
A tattoo of a Gaping Maw purses it's lips.
A glob of slime is ejected from your lips aimed at the eyes of Vershelt
Vershelt narrowly avoids your spit
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You barely manage to avoid Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is convulsing on the ground.

810hp 438m 691mv 24350tnl 10 PM
Vershelt starts a vicious series of attacks with his swords.
You manage to partially evade Vershelt's attack, but are still hit.
Vershelt's flurry wounds you.
You manage to partially evade Vershelt's attack, but are still hit.
Vershelt's flurry wounds you.
You manage to partially evade Vershelt's attack, but are still hit.
Vershelt's flurry wounds you.
You manage to partially evade Vershelt's attack, but are still hit.
Vershelt's flurry wounds you.
Vershelt's flurry wounds you.
Vershelt is convulsing on the ground.

729hp 423m 716mv 24350tnl 10 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Your pound *** DEMOLISHES *** Vershelt
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's slash wounds you.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
Vershelt's wrath wounds you.
Vershelt is convulsing on the ground.

695hp 423m 716mv 24350tnl 10 PM
Vershelt parries your pound.
Vershelt parries your pound.
You dodge Vershelt's wrath.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
You dodge Vershelt's slash.
Vershelt is convulsing on the ground.

695hp 423m 716mv 24350tnl 10 PM
Your pound *** DEMOLISHES *** Vershelt
Vershelt is DEAD
Vershelt's heart is torn from his chest.

Just meant that overall if you are losing to a defensive spec warrior, its truly not a mater of not gearing properly, not being confident in form, or not using skill to bring him down.

Its also not being overprepped by the warrior since the examples I refer to are just call resist, call thirst. No other preps being utilized.

It is mostly your inability to land massive amounts of damage quickly.

They are damn tough but its really out of the shifters hands when you are fully preped, confident in form, and fighting on water. In a straight up fight. But then again, thats why there are healers, heal potions/pills, and the ability to rengage before said oponent can make it away.

I think another overlooked prep in these situations also is offense. Many talk about damage reduction and things like that, but it doesn't seem to me that a lot of people take into account things like frenzy, accuracy, etc. I've raised damage from MUTILATES to ***DEMOS*** off of preps like these. Just something else to consider.

I can see your point more so, also when you take into account happy pills for healing and things like that, there's just a lot of variables in play. For face value I understand the mentality of shifters either able to do, or not able to do, but looking in corners and asking yourself the right questions can make a really big difference in the long run.

Thank you for your time.

>Its also not being overprepped by the warrior since the
>examples I refer to are just call resist, call thirst. No
>other preps being utilized.

Resist and thirst are huge preps (relatively speaking) for warriors. Resist is probably the equivalent of having stoneskin, aura and shield. Thirst is like haste. So a rager with resist and thirst is like a non-rager with stoneskin, aura, shield, and haste. Plus he has deathblow.

Also, the original poster wasn't complaining specifically about ragers, but warriors in general. Does that change your opinion any? How did your water forms fare against solo non-rager warriors?

Last thing- in your explanation of why water forms "aren't that tough" against warriors, you specifically mention defensive specs. That's a subset of the total warrior population. How did your water forms fare against solo non-defense spec warriors?

I'll say that there were many situations where my walrus sent someone fleeing, but wasn't able to seal the kill. So, it wasn't hard to run away from walrus. Here are some logs of walrus in action that my claims are based on. Think of them what you will.

Walrus unprepped(meaning only preps that shifter can cast):

Gohum vs Rongar(cloud berserker, mace spec)
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?64804

Gohum vs Dolza(cloud berserker, flail spec. Veteran of Battle)
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65094

Gohum vs Mhardat(storm shaman), Aeria(w-elf druid) and Morasfenmire(shark shifter), all Outlangers:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65232

Gohum vs Ysaloerye(Dwarf berserker, Mace/flail). The fight's seven successful deathblows were more than what usually happened:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65252

Gohum vs Lerimos(arial defender, spear/hand) and Kaisse(human defender, flail/dagger. Commander of Battle). Kaisse dodged better than the average rager in that fight:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65327

Gohum vs Ysaloerye(dwarf berserker, mace/flail). Ysaloerye is thirsting. Small skirmish with Gorrnar after fight:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65523

Gohum vs Gorrnar(storm berserker, pole/axe)
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65541

Gohum vs Kaisse(human defender, dagger/flail. Commander of Battle):
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65556

Another one against Kaisse:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?64775

Gohum vs Kragathian(svirf berserker, dagger/flail. Drillmaster of Battle) and Morasfenmire(evil Outlander shark). The fights were two separate fights:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65776

Another one against Kragathian:
http://www.qhcf.net/cforum/logs/vpost.pl?65778

I wasn't considering ragers. The dam redux from resistance puts them in the "prepped to the gills" category (along with thirst and deathblow for berserkers).

While I can use the flee, swimto, murder tactics, I think that abuses the game mechanics, unless that ability was downgraded.

Since it was put in to help them from getting beat up before Legacies were put in, are you going to remove them to balance them out again?

No.

Also, why is that my major water form with full abs can't stand toe to toe against warriors?

I have no idea, given how other players have had considerable success in that matchup.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Water forms are not going to own defensive type village warriors.

(spears, polearms, swords)

It will still be a close fight, but in no way are you going to three round kill them or anything.

If you fight them underwater...They have no chance period.

On surface though, you will need ABS, and pick your moments to be successfull. Even then if they are thirsting Dolphin, Manta, Squid will get parried ALOT. Walrus has an actual unblockable strike which negates this problem, and Shark seems to land more often.

9 times out of 10 non walrus shifter will need flee/heal/return to pick off a defensive skilled villager with water forms.

Problem with walrus though is it doesnt deal out the quick damage so it balances out actually finishing off the villager. With the new lag on swimto murder...they can just walk away from you now.

If you pick water planning on dominating on the sea...be prepared for humbling if you arent prepping and cautious.

I have played every type of water shifters in the past few years and have fought every single class dozens of times I would figure. Its a fun roleplay class if you want to escape the normal life of surface fighting. Gives you lots of time to talk to people and pick your fights. I would like to see each of the water forms given a special attack. Chest pound for dolphin. (Damage plus boneshattering ribs.) Tail slice for MantaRay (Slashing damage causing bleeding) Contrict for squid (Like anaconda) Walrus has gore already, maybe add bleeding. Shark should get a feeding frenzy when victim gets hurt. Maybe an extra bit of damage or something like that) This would make them tougher and definatly more feared....as they should be considering their massive limitations. There is nothing more annoying than tooling a water shifter with your mongoose becasue they simply cant hit you. WHen I play Utility shifters I would literally pick on water shifters because I knew that unless they had time to prep fully, I would dominate them in their own domain.

Still a cool class.

It's a viable escape option against anyone in the right situations.

Your whole post seems to be more focused in ranting/whining than asking any legitimate questions that are related to the game.

>Also, why is that my major water form with full abs can't
>stand toe to toe against warriors? Against any other class is
>okay.

Can't toe to toe means that you are the one sent running for his life. I don't know what form you had, but my Gohum(gnome walrus/osprey) mowed down Rager warriors(Ysaloerye got me once when she got lucky with deathblow or something) just fine without ABS in water. Sure, I had problems finishing them, but that's the price you have to pay for being able to mow them down easily.

PS Ysaloerye, do you have the log of you killing Gohum in Aryth? It was a good fight and I didn't log it for some reason.

I remember having very little trouble against either of your forms as throt... hehe

What lightmage says is true though, water forms rely on dishing damage out fast because most people know when they cannot stand toe to toe with you and will run. Since its not all that hard to run away players will know where you are and only come if they are ready to really rumble. The end result is that because of the badassness of waterforms your only gonna see the toughest people looking for a fight.

That and water shifters rely on melee damage and if your fighting a good defensive person it will be very difficult to take them down (most warriors at hero have strong defenses in one of their specs or legacies)

You managed to prevent my shifting to walrus with immolate and almost got me. So, you avoided actually fighting walrus(I was too hurt to fight you that time in Dragon Sea), but I got you once with osprey in Hillcrest(The none kill in my PBF. Credits to the voker/conjie for softening you down before I attacked you).

Walrus will mow down pretty much any warrior(with few lucky exeptions. And this is providing that they don't flee), but the downside is that it has 2 rounds of murder lag. Most opponents got away because of this. The toughest spec to kill was a flail spec, because they had eyejab and that prevented chasing. Walrus wasn't going to kill a full-grown warrior in three rounds(spec didn't really matter defense-wise since my walrus was hitting the most of the time anyway), so opponents had plenty of time to run. So, you could defeat opponents with walrus, but getting a kill can be pretty hard unless they stay to fight.

Some good tactics against walrus would be bringing a mercenary mob to help against it etc.

In the open sea I beat the walrus straight up (while I was in the village) and sent you running. I then got to about 90% hp and fought a squid on the aryth and drove him off. Then fought a shark on the open sea while near dead and got chased off myself. After healing up I came back to play but you were all working together by then and I was taking off after 3 rounds.

In the open sea I beat the walrus straight up (while I was in the village) and sent you running.

I have no recollection of such thing ever happening to me, exept the one time Ysal beat me up. If was me, there was some important factor involved which you discount(something like me being writhing to begin with.). From how hurt you got it sounds like you fought the walrus one round or so. So, the walrus(me or someone else) refused to fight you to begin with for some reason, as you can't fight off a healthy walrus without being severely hurt. Post a log. I'm pretty much certain that the picture you are trying to paint didn't happen, but rather, it was something different.

Why does a class that is entirely immune to disarm and enters virtually no targetted melee commands during a fight care about dirt kick?

This guy is only concerned about winning.

He's the sort that sits around talking about his forms before hand and praying he'll get either the Case D7000 Heavy Duty Dozer or the M1A2 Abrams main Battle tank.

He's upset because a linear optioned class like shifters has...well limited options.

I can't stand them.

Although I don't see dirtkick to be overly a concern, I can understand why someone would be worried about it.

Mainly, is that a lot of forms are somewhat slow to move. Also, without area attacks and what not, they need to be able to see to re-engage the target. Dirtkicking a walrus for example, (especially early in the tick) should almost always give you ample time to get out of dodge and away from the form.

Also, while dirted, pretty much you just have to sit there hoping your target isn't getting away, at the same time praying there isn't some lagging backup coming back with him which has happened to me a few times. On top of that, if you use wands or scrolls in combat, it's going to be a pain to cycle through inventory to hold the proper stuff.

Just curious.

I'm still on coffee cup #1, I just wasn't thinking.

n/t

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n/t

I've played a mariner ranger. I am 100% positive that you can't dirt kick on water. If you input the command you can an echo back saying 'There is no dirt here' or is it 'There is no dirt to kick'. One or the other.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com