Ok. I was re-reading that one post on Bug Submission board where Paladin-guest posted the log of 'the necro tactic' and Kastellyn stating that it was beatable. How when the sleep spell wears off or you take damage that you should 'Wake up and quaff, man!'. Now this is all fine and dandy. Unless, you happen to be a shifter in form.

Now I know how much of a threat a necromancer is to a shapeshifter from my first character who was an Air/Utility (in that order) shifter, Nixhar. The 'wake up and quaff/teleport/word of recall' solution doesn't exactly work for shifters. Forms can't quaff or cast spells. Sure if you have an air form you can simply fly away. But that is rendered totally useless at the mid-level range when necros can cast forget. Which screws over forms even more since not only do you lose the ability to use any of the forms natural skills but you also -cannot revert- since you forget how to do this along with everything else. What is a shifter supposed to do then? How are they to beat this tactic? Or does it instead become 'Oh snap, necro slept me. Wonder how long it'll take me to get to my corpse'. Note that is entirely possible for a necromancer to sneak up on a shifter since 'detect invis' can wear off while you're in form. Simply wondering. Thanks.

Of course this is not including the other downfalls of being a shifter in form like how impaling/harpooning causing bleeding and bad shifting which causes even more damage.

Inability to revert as a shifter under forget is an oversight.
But it is easier to claim that's done for balance purposes rather than admit the oversight and fix it. }(

Would that be one of those oversights I had to specifically write code to make happen? :P

Two thoughts:

1. What if we went back to the "old way", where running out of mana while affected by "forget" and in-form just causea an automatic revert?

2. Failing the above, what if "forget", when landed on a shifter, were changed so that it causes an automatic revert regardless of the shifter's condition? The thought being that the shifter has to "remember" how to shift in order to remain in form, otherwise he reverts to his "natural" form.

It's hard to imagine these giving shifters a huge advantage vs. necros.

"Failing the above, what if "forget", when landed on a shifter, were changed so that it causes an automatic revert regardless of the shifter's condition"

As someone who never carries around potions, that would suck. The shifter would be forced to fight in natural form until forget wears off so they could teleport. An offensive shifter shouldn't have a hard time with necromancers unless the necro has an army. Just outdamage them, you probably won't kill them, but make them word or teleport and then get yourself to a healer quickly.

>As someone who never carries around potions, that would suck.

Well, the obvious solution to that is: carry around potions.

>The shifter would be forced to fight in natural form until
>forget wears off so they could teleport.

I'm thinking once the forget landed the shifter would be trying his hardest to get out of dodge. Which would be fine with me, considering how hard it is to land "forget" on an awake person.

>An offensive shifter
>shouldn't have a hard time with necromancers unless the necro
>has an army. Just outdamage them, you probably won't kill
>them, but make them word or teleport and then get yourself to
>a healer quickly.

This assumes the necro doesn't sleep you. That's all he really has to do. Should he sleep you, there's an extremely high chance you're going to die. Say he sees you coming. Zap self. Blind. Flee, return, c sleep. Boom, you're dead. This is ignoring the fact that, if he has a zombie army, he's probably going to out-damage your offense form.

Sleep is hard to survive as a shifted shifter, but it certainly can be done.

There are many drawbacks that only shifters have, but there are equally many advantages that only shifters have. It balances out.

>Sleep is hard to survive as a shifted shifter, but it
>certainly can be done.

Ok. So let's say I'm in wildcat form exploring an area looking for wands or just for exploration's sake because I don't feel like ranking or there's no one suitable to rank with for whatever reason. A necromancer coincidentally enters the same area I'm in. I don't see this necro immediately as I'm either inputting another command or my detect invis just wore off or for whatever other plausible reason. I get summoned and slept just as I was about to type where to check for enemies.

Now I'm asleep in form. Maledictions are applied. All the usual suspects: blindness, curse, poison, weaken, power word decay(?), crimson scourge and of course forget. Necro then rests for a few hours to ensure that the maledictions do their stuff properly. Sleep wears off. What is there to do? Can't hide, camouflage, or revert due to forget. Hide and camouflage are also rendered pointless due to poison and crimson scourge hitting every hour. Can't see where I'm going so running is very difficult unless I memorized the path. But if I've been summoned that messes up orientation. Necro can still summon again or chase. If I can't revert then I can't cast teleport or word of recall. Not that recall or potions of return would work with a curse on anyways.

Surviving can certainly be done? Could you tell me how? Because I never figured it out. This would be really helpful to me should I play another shifter or the players currently playing shifters right now.

If any char gets slept its not a good thing.

SInce you cant use potions to quaff it worst for you.

If you know there is a bad ass sleep maker out there, you have to be more vigilant. Attack him first. Or attack a few mobs in the area and flee from them before you begin your exploration. If slept, the mobs will keep tracking...voila..wake up call earlier than usual..

Go on the offensive. Find necromancer and have him running from you instead of other way around.

Find a buddy to group with.

Join marans for certain powers.

Become friends with the necromancer.

Most high end forms have pretty good resists and the necromancer will be casting alot of spells to get you fully spelled up.

Forget doesnt last too long. Keep moving if you can.

Shifters have crap saves.

Charging a necro is damn near a guaranteed sleep-spam kill.

That being said I think playing a Shifter makes you a second rate citizen in what ever country you are native too.

n/t

>Shifters have crap saves.

This isn't necessarily so.

Summon has a lag on it, if you get summoned even if you check where once, you should be long, long gone before he sleeps you. One of the big powers a necro has is dropping his enemy's weapon. As a shifter, you are immune to that power. Sure, the maledicts will hamper you, but not nearly as badly as that human warrior who just lost both of his swords and doesnt have the ability to have a spell that gives him detect invis.

>Ok. So let's say I'm in wildcat form exploring an area looking
>for wands or just for exploration's sake because I don't feel
>like ranking or there's no one suitable to rank with for
>whatever reason. A necromancer coincidentally enters the same
>area I'm in. I don't see this necro immediately as I'm either
>inputting another command or my detect invis just wore off or
>for whatever other plausible reason. I get summoned and slept
>just as I was about to type where to check for enemies.

I'm not going to lie to you. At this point, you've already made so many mistakes, you deserve to lose.

Why can the necromancer even see you?

Why is your detect invis down? Yes, it goes down in form and you need to revert to recast it. So revert and recast it.

Why are you standing there and letting yourself get slept after summoning when you have enough time to revert/word, revert/teleport, revert/quaff, hide/camo, or just walk out of the room before the necromancer gets his next command after casting summon?

Did this necromancer just log on? If yes, he won't have undead and you may just be able to beat the crap out of him loaded up with maledictions. If no, there's less than no excuse to get caught with your pants that down.

>Now I'm asleep in form. Maledictions are applied. All the
>usual suspects: blindness, curse, poison, weaken, power word
>decay(?), crimson scourge and of course forget. Necro then
>rests for a few hours to ensure that the maledictions do their
>stuff properly.

I can tell that you haven't played this out from the necromancer's side. Give it a shot sometime and you'll see how much can go wrong there and/or all the things that can be done to make your job harder.

>Sleep wears off. What is there to do? Can't
>hide, camouflage, or revert due to forget.

You can run like hell until you can revert.

Also, why does the necromancer have the leisure to do all of this to you without interference? What could you do about that?

>Hide and camouflage
>are also rendered pointless due to poison and crimson scourge
>hitting every hour.

Ah, no. (See above: play a necromancer and see why this isn't true.) However, faerie fire would get you there, yes.

>Can't see where I'm going so running is
>very difficult unless I memorized the path.

To really be able to survive a well-crafted sleep kill attempt, yes, you are going to often need to be able to do a certain amount of intelligent running blind.

>But if I've been
>summoned that messes up orientation.

You do get to see where you're summoned to.

>Necro can still summon
>again or chase. If I can't revert then I can't cast teleport
>or word of recall.

Forget doesn't last very long.

>Not that recall or potions of return would
>work with a curse on anyways.

Nope! But teleport is fair game. So is cancellation to get your sight back.

>You can run like hell until you can revert.

This is really the only option. And it's made especially difficult by the fact that scourge/poison (and possibly an energy drain to wake) will have sapped most of his movement. This also assumes he doesn't run out of mana while in form and still unable to revert. If he does manage to run away and revert before running out of mana, he may die to the revert damage (due to maledictions) when he finally does revert.

In my experience, as a shifter, you're better off just avoiding necros entirely, unless you think you can ambush him when he's already wounded. Otherwise, you have a very low likelihood of killing him while he has a very high likelihood of killing you.

>In my experience, as a shifter, you're better off just
>avoiding necros entirely, unless you think you can ambush him
>when he's already wounded. Otherwise, you have a very low
>likelihood of killing him while he has a very high likelihood
>of killing you.

This is true, up to a point, if we assume that the necromancer will get the full sleep duration unmolested to work on you. If you're on the attack, even something as simple as ducking back out of the area, reverting, and telling your cabal/group/random ally what you're about to do can keep that from happening.

Of course, there's also the unsimple options. :)

So a requirement to survive an attack by a necromancer for a shifted shapeshifter is a: Have a cabal to talk to or a group
b: Dont be seen
c: Run away

Seems like the shifter class is getting the short end. Take situations like retriving where you "must" retrive. Or defending.

As for shifters, I lost count of how many I played over the years, but of the 30+ times Ive been slept there has been about 3 times or so Ive escaped. And I cant remember one incident where I have actually gone out of the fight with a victory other than the satisfaction of getting away.

What kills you is the inability to get away, I can live with the plague/blind/scourge +++. But the thing that kills me is the continual tax on mana with the fact that you cant revert/quaff. Short math will solve the issue with the drain on the shifter. 10 hour of sleep, crimson scourge all the way. would take about 1/3rd of the shifters max total mana. 1 successfull energydrain would take half of that, and with you being cursed+++ and unable to call for help due to form. You wont be reciving any aid. But back to the mana issue. As a shifter you have obviously cast the appropirate spells as well, like fly/pass +++. If your lucky then to be able to move about you have to survive 4 tics with forget. Most likely you will die due to the loss of mana and turn into a pulp of goo.

At any rate, while the shifter class is my favorite, some tuning would be appropirate. Not in the dimmension suggested, but some enhancement would do. The penalty for ranking in form is tough enough. And communication is perhaps the strongest ability of any class. Try going one single day without being able to convey your wishes. Or even a few hours at work.

Good luck with any future work with the class.

Note, there's a "revert" in the posts you're replying to.

>So a requirement to survive an attack by a necromancer for a
>shifted shapeshifter is a: Have a cabal to talk to or a group
> b: Dont be seen
> c: Run away

1) No, I specifically said no. Read, damn you.

2) If you're a wildcat (as in the example), a form with strengths in concealment and fast movement, then yes, the answers to many problems will involve not being seen and running.

Is it harder, in the general case, to survive sleep as a shifter vs. many other characters? Sure! Is it harder to survive many other situations as many other classes rather than a shifter? Sure is!

>Seems like the shifter class is getting the short end. Take
>situations like retriving where you "must" retrive. Or
>defending.

All cases in which it should be very hard to put you to sleep...

>10 hour of sleep, crimson scourge all the way.
>would take about 1/3rd of the shifters max total mana.

If only there were a way you would stay slept that long. :) I mean, there is, but your chances of being cleaved in half should be higher if you're not moderately asleep at the wheel.

>The penalty for ranking in form
>is tough enough.

And that would be...?

>>The penalty for ranking in form
>>is tough enough.
>
>And that would be...?

Being bored out of your skull.

The other penalties have gone away (yay!) but not being able to talk/interact is still a serious penalty... mostly in the funstick region.

I don't by it.

With Divine saves I get slept with sleep,flee, sleep, if I fudge a singl command.

I was with a group that all three of u got slept, me Divine on saves or comparible rank. They with what ever they had.

Wake, slept.

The onlything my saves worked against was the maledicts.

I'm not convinced that Sleep isn't bugged in someway that you guys keep missing.

I'm not convinced that Sleep isn't bugged in someway that you guys keep missing.

There is not a single condition which makes Sleep harder to resist than any other generic spell beyond the benefit of Spellcraft. The code is very easy to analyze precisely because it is both short and simple.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Some classes don't match up well against others. Shifters aren't great against necros. Necro's are woeful against conjurers (and sub-36, warrior/AP/Orc bashmeat). There is no one all-powerful class.

I've tried out a couple of necro's in my time and I really think people who argue against necro's either:

A) haven't played one and so do not realise how horribly crappy they really can be

or B) have just had the misfortune of coming up against a guy/girl who is the shiznizzle of necromancy.

If a necro does manage to catch you alone, in form and gets the sleep off, well.. that's your fault.

I compare this argument to say "Well, I got assassinated and I didn't even see it coming. One minute I was sipping tea and the next BAM - dead! Isn't that overpowered?".

Seriously, try a necromancer. I'll roll a shifter, we'll meet in the middle.

> There is no one all-powerful class.

But there are classes that are more powerful than others.

> I've tried out a couple of necro's in my time and I really think people who argue against necro's either:
>
> A) haven't played one and so do not realise how horribly crappy they really can be
>
> or B) have just had the misfortune of coming up against a guy/girl who is the shiznizzle of necromancy.

They are nowhere crappy. It is one of the deadliest class in CF if played properly.
Sure, a newbie necromancer may die a lot, but experienced one is a powerhouse.

> If a necro does manage to catch you alone, in form and gets the sleep off, well.. that's your fault.

Sleep is a cheap kill spell. Like it was "hold person" some time ago or old assassinate.
There is really no good counter against it rathen than avoiding the fight which is not always available if you defend your cabal, for example, and a necro is trying to summon/sleep you out.
Having good saves only means you will be slept not at first but second attempt :)
Player communication is the main thing that makes "sleep" spell look less powerful that it actually is.
Power of "group tell" or "cabal channel" ( or in some cases IRC ) should never be underestimated.
I can't provide exact numbers but I'm sure that more than 50% sleep-saves come from your friends rescuing you. Slept shifters can't communicate and along with unability to revert under forget their chances to survive are only slightly above zero. ( Assuming a necro has a clue ).

Necros can be horribly weak in cetain matchup/situations and horribly deathful in others. I won't elaborate. But that's what makes CF great.

Besides, a necro should never get a second shot at sleeping a good player :P

As for sleep itself, take that away and what do you have? A fairly useless character. You ever tried crimson scourging a warrior in combat (let alone a warrior that is resistant magic and spellbanes)? Necromancers would become FAR too army dependent, and that means they have to be online for over an hour before being able to PK.

Besides, a necro should never get a second shot at sleeping a good player :P

I'll add that if you're alert, the necro should have to work pretty hard to get the first shot. If you can see the necromancer, standing in a room (especially one with significant movement lag, like a forest or mountain, but any room will work if you don't have significant network lag) and spamming "murderousskill <necromancer>" means you'll get the drop. The game favors the defender in this fashion. The Summon/Sleep example given earlier is even more in the defender's favor, given the lag on Summon.

Sleep is one of the easier spells to defend against, all things considered. It's a straight-up spells saving throw (with Spellcraft, like nearly every necromancer spell), and I believe all of the modifiers which can apply would favor the defender.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

First shot is not the only way to sleep people.
If only getting A first shot would make you immune to sleep! :)

If you execute any(with exceptions) skill in combat with a necro you open yourself to flee/return/sleep attempt.
If a necro wishes, he can try it. And it is working. With less chances than the first attempt? Yes, but still chances are far from zero.
With my last sleep-happy characeter ( fire AP ) I didn't have big troubles to make sleep attempts on people and my link isn't great.
Flee/sleep was working alright too. I don't see many reliable ways to prevent that. ( Perhaps entwine is the best ).

The main problem with cheap spells that if you fail it, you lose only a bit of money, but sooner or later you land it and get the jackpot.

>Flee/sleep was working alright too. I don't see many reliable
>ways to prevent that. ( Perhaps entwine is the best ).

To turn that around, do you think being slept as a character not set up well to deal with it is deadlier than being entwined as a character not set up well to deal with it? I don't.

That's why I wish entwine-like skills to be removed from the game :)
It is also a kind of cheap kill skill.
Give whip specs something cool instead.
Any cheap-kill-permalag-holdinplace-whatever skills aren't fun.
Any those trip+cheapshot, quicksand, entwine, sleep, giant+bash+bash legacy+polearm and alike one-pony-tricks look like crutches for losers who whine that they "can't nail the kill! Whaa!"
But, in truth, people die regardless.

When I check my own deathes, they are often caused by various reasons ( my stupidity including ) and those cheap skill/spells aren't necessary to "finish people off".
At least my own deaths usually were caused by something else. Spamming commands, overconfidence, bad luck, etc.
I somewhat miss old days when let's say a master cleric was fighting a rager warrior. Both were unable to lag each other yet still battles were cool and epic. You could also take your chances and rush into group of enemies if you know they need something more to nail you than just type in a single cheap skill/spell.

Now, you know, people just prefer to stay away from Battle cabal if there's any whip spec defending.
However I will start to whine about entwine after sleep problem will be resolved, hehe }(.
At least there are more options to get away from entwine and many classes may just recall away.

Sleep.

Assassinate is easily countered.

I've never been PWK'ed or cleaved.

Entwine costs them a weapon doesn't it?

So there you go!

Necro's and AP's rarely get me.

Or my RNG has been skewed from day one.

===It's a straight-up spells saving throw (with Spellcraft, like nearly every necromancer spell)===

The relevant line from the code:
saves_spell( level, victim, APPLY_SAVING_SPELL )

There are several things that make Sleep impossible to land, several things that make Sleep harder to land, and not one thing that makes it any easier to land than any other spell.

I can't be clearer than that.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

<1983hp 926m 496mv>
Zlisthjor has summoned you!
The Gates of The City In The Clouds


An Arial warrior guard stands firm.
(Ghostly) Zlisthjor is here.
An Arial warrior guard stands firm.
The wife is standing here, sweating over a stove.

<1983hp 926m 496mv>
You yell 'Die, Zlisthjor, you sorcerous dog!'
Zlisthjor utters the words, 'grzzs'.
You feel very sleepy ..... zzzzzz.

<1983hp 926m 496mv> whoi zl
< Human > (PK) Zlisthjor the Spectre

<1983hp 926m 496mv> af

You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You feel unclean.
You are affected by:
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 29 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 29 hours.
Skill: 'sleep' modifies none by 0 for 9 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 22 hours.
Spell: 'stone skin' modifies armor class by -40 for 0 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 23 hours.
Spell: 'fly' modifies none by 0 for 2 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 11 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 11 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 35 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 29 hours.

<1983hp 926m 496mv>
Your skin feels soft again.

<1983hp 1090m 496mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'

<1983hp 1090m 496mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You are blinded!

<1983hp 1090m 496mv> snore

<1983hp 1090m 496mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You feel very sick.

<1983hp 1090m 496mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You howl as the pores of your skin start to bleed profusely.

<1983hp 1090m 496mv> af
You are affected by:
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 15 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 12 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 12 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 28 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 28 hours.
Skill: 'sleep' modifies none by 0 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 7 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 21 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 22 hours.
Spell: 'fly' modifies none by 0 for 1 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 10 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 10 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 34 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 28 hours.

<1983hp 1090m 496mv>
You are thirsty.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1932hp 1040m 446mv>
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
You slowly float to the ground.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1881hp 1008m 401mv> wake
You can't wake up!

<1881hp 1008m 401mv> af
You are affected by:
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 13 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 10 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 10 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 26 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 26 hours.
Skill: 'sleep' modifies none by 0 for 6 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 5 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 19 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 20 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 32 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 26 hours.

<1881hp 1008m 401mv>
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1830hp 968m 356mv> gr
someone's group:
<51 Tra> Juxposona 92% hp 88% mana 71% mv 532873 xp
<51 Sha> Someone 100% hp 56% mana 37% mv 592634 xp
<51 Con> Someone 81% hp 31% mana 100% mv 592073 xp

<1830hp 968m 356mv> gt zlithjor thinks he can kill me, has me asleep.

You can't see anything, you're sleeping!
Someone tells the group 'dead is Chayan'

<1830hp 968m 356mv> You tell your group 'zlithjor thinks he can kill me, has me asleep.'

<1830hp 968m 356mv>
Someone tells the group 'I got him'

<1830hp 968m 356mv>
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1779hp 930m 311mv> af
You are affected by:
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 11 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 24 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 24 hours.
Skill: 'sleep' modifies none by 0 for 4 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 17 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 18 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 6 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 6 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 30 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 24 hours.

Ok, I can still kill him. Only thing he could do to me that would hurt is cast forget on me.....


<1779hp 930m 311mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Your memory seems to fade away.

Hm, there it is. Oh oh.


<1779hp 930m 311mv>
Someone tells the group 'though I cannot find his corpse in the jungle'

<1779hp 930m 311mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'forget' modifies none by 0 for 4 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 11 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 8 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 24 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 24 hours.
Skill: 'sleep' modifies none by 0 for 4 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 17 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 18 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 6 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 6 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 30 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 24 hours.

<1779hp 930m 311mv>
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1729hp 889m 266mv>
Someone tells the group 'whose?'

<1729hp 889m 266mv>
Someone tells the group 'where at Juxposona?'

<1729hp 889m 266mv> gt arial
You tell your group 'arial'

<1729hp 889m 266mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
You feel a momentary chill.

<1729hp 889m 266mv>
You are hungry.
You are thirsty.
You are dying of thirst!
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.

<1679hp 838m 208mv>
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Someone's deathly touch DISMEMBERS you!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1625hp 838m 208mv>
Someone's freezing bite mauls you.
Someone's freezing bite mauls you.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<1580hp 838m 208mv> fle
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!

Maybe I can run around until it wears off.


<1580hp 838m 207mv> n
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 206mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 206mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 206mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 205mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 205mv> n
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 202mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 202mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 199mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 196mv> n
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 193mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 193mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 190mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 189mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 189mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 189mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 189mv> s
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1580hp 838m 189mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1580hp 838m 188mv> n
You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch EVISCERATES you!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1528hp 838m 188mv> No way! You are still fighting!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1528hp 838m 188mv> fle
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!

<1528hp 838m 187mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1528hp 838m 186mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1528hp 838m 183mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1528hp 838m 183mv> s
You can't see a thing!

<1528hp 838m 180mv> s
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1528hp 838m 180mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1528hp 838m 177mv> e

You are hungry.
You are starving!
You are thirsty.
You are dying of thirst!
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Your burning, weeping sores devastates you!
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison wounds you.
Your thirst hits you.
Your hunger hits you.

<1456hp 762m 101mv> You can't see a thing!

<1456hp 762m 98mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1456hp 762m 98mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1456hp 762m 98mv>
Someone tells the group 'ohhh, cool sword'

<1456hp 762m 98mv> s
You can't see a thing!

<1456hp 762m 95mv> s
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1456hp 762m 95mv>
Someone has arrived.

<1456hp 762m 95mv> e

You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch *** DEVASTATES *** you!
No way! You are still fighting!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1324hp 762m 95mv> fle
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!

<1324hp 762m 92mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 92mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1324hp 762m 89mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 89mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1324hp 762m 86mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 86mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 86mv> n
You can't see a thing!

<1324hp 762m 83mv>
Someone tells the group 'where?'

<1324hp 762m 83mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1324hp 762m 80mv> w
You can't see a thing!

<1324hp 762m 79mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 79mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 79mv> gt arial city
You tell your group 'arial city'

<1324hp 762m 79mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 79mv> w
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1324hp 762m 79mv> Someone has arrived.

<1324hp 762m 79mv> s

You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch EVISCERATES you!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1276hp 762m 79mv> No way! You are still fighting!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1276hp 762m 79mv>
Someone tells the group 'flaming rib'
Someone is in perfect health.

<1276hp 762m 79mv> fle
You can't see a thing!
You flee from combat!

<1276hp 762m 78mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1276hp 762m 75mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 75mv> s
You can't see a thing!

<1276hp 762m 72mv> s
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 72mv> s
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 72mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1276hp 762m 69mv> e
You can't see a thing!

<1276hp 762m 66mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'forget' modifies none by 0 for 1 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 8 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 5 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 5 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 21 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 21 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 0 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 14 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 15 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 27 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 21 hours.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 66mv>
The rain stopped.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'forget' modifies none by 0 for 1 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 8 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 5 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 5 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 21 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 21 hours.
Spell: 'control translucence' modifies none by 0 for 0 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 14 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 15 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 3 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 27 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 21 hours.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> e
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> n
Alas, you cannot go that way.

<1276hp 762m 66mv> Someone has arrived.

<1276hp 762m 66mv>
Someone tells the group 'that was mine!'

<1276hp 762m 66mv> w

You yell 'Help someone is attacking me!'
Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You are hungry.
You are starving!
You are thirsty.
You are dying of thirst!
You no longer feel in control of your translucence.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Your burning, weeping sores devastates you!
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison wounds you.
Your thirst hits you.
Your hunger hits you.
Someone is in perfect health.

<1099hp 686m 0mv>
Someone tells the group 'So, ye found it?'
No way! You are still fighting!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1099hp 686m 0mv> fle

Someone's freezing bite devastates you!
Someone parries your punch.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<1068hp 686m 0mv> You are too exhausted. Hm, now I'm in trouble.
PANIC! You couldn't escape!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1068hp 686m 0mv> fle
PANIC! You couldn't escape!
Someone is in perfect health.

<1068hp 686m 0mv>
Someone's freezing bite decimates you!
Someone parries your punch.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<1043hp 686m 0mv> shape lion
Huh?
Someone is in perfect health.

<1043hp 686m 0mv> Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
Someone tells the group 'I got lost in the quicksand'
Someone is in perfect health.

<939hp 686m 0mv>
Someone's freezing bite mauls you.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<916hp 686m 0mv>
Someone's freezing bite wounds you.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<897hp 686m 0mv>
Someone utters the words, 'zawsufuq hajqp'.
Someone's cold touch drains some of your life away!

Someone's deathly touch DISMEMBERS you!
Someone is in perfect health.

<843hp 686m 0mv>
Someone's freezing bite decimates you!
Someone's freezing bite mauls you.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<796hp 686m 0mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'forget' modifies none by 0 for 0 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 7 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 4 hours.
Spell: 'blindness' modifies hit roll by -4 for 4 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 20 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 20 hours.
Spell: 'pass door' modifies none by 0 for 13 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 14 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 2 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 2 hours.
Spell: 'detect invis' modifies none by 0 for 26 hours.
Spell: 'giant strength' modifies strength by 4 for 20 hours.
Someone is in perfect health.

<796hp 686m 0mv>
You are hungry.
You are starving!
You are thirsty.
You are dying of thirst!
You feel a sudden rush of knowledge. Whew, ticked just in time.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Someone shudders and starts to bleed the the pores of its skin.
Your burning, weeping sores devastates you!
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison wounds you.
Your thirst hits you.
Your hunger hits you.
Someone is in perfect health.

<724hp 610m 0mv>
Someone's freezing bite injures you.
Someone parries your punch.
Someone is in perfect health.

<708hp 610m 0mv> shape lion
You flicker and blur into the shape of a lion.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.
Someone is in perfect health.

<708hp 597m 0mv>
Someone utters the words, 'qpurr hajqp'.
Someone's chilling touch *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
Someone is in perfect health.

<600hp 597m 0mv> rake

Someone's freezing bite misses you.
Your claw MASSACRES someone!
Your claw MASSACRES someone!
Someone is covered with bleeding wounds.

<600hp 597m 0mv> You rake your claws across her body.
Your raking claws MANGLES someone!
Your raking claws MANGLES someone!
Someone is gushing blood.

<600hp 597m 0mv>
Someone tells the group 'I hope that appeases ye for your earlier deaths'
Someone is gushing blood.

<600hp 597m 0mv> rake

Someone's freezing bite misses you.
Someone's freezing bite misses you.
Your claw MASSACRES someone!
Someone leaves south.
Someone has fled!

<600hp 597m 0mv> rev
But you aren't fighting anyone!

<600hp 597m 0mv> You concentrate a moment and return to your normal shape.
You maintain your phase as you shapeshift.

<600hp 594m 0mv> c cancel
The magic of the chill touch spell is unaffected.
The magic of the crimson scourge spell is unaffected.
The magic of the poison spell is unaffected.
The magic of your blindness spell unravels.
The magic of the curse spell is unaffected.
The magic of the curse spell is unaffected.
The magic of your pass door spell unravels.
The magic of the aura spell is unaffected.
The magic of the transform spell is unaffected.
The magic of the transform spell is unaffected.
The magic of your detect invis spell unravels.
The magic of your giant strength spell unravels.

<600hp 574m 0mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Zlisthjor Dark Alley.
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<600hp 574m 0mv> shape lion

Rualamu tells the group 'you wnt a crusaders sword?'

<600hp 574m 0mv> You flicker and blur into the shape of a lion.

<600hp 564m 0mv>
Zlisthjor has arrived.

<600hp 564m 0mv>
Zlisthjor leaves west.
Feirshay tells the group 'Pfft, no!'

<600hp 564m 0mv> rake zlisthjor
They aren't here.

<600hp 564m 0mv>
The clouds disappear.

<600hp 564m 0mv> enl stone
Your skin turns to stone.

<600hp 534m 0mv>
You are hungry.
You are starving!
You are thirsty.
You are dying of thirst!
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Your burning, weeping sores mauls you.
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison mauls you.
Your thirst hits you.
Your hunger hits you.

<537hp 458m 0mv> rev
You concentrate a moment and return to your normal shape.
You maintain the hardness of your skin as you shapeshift.

<537hp 455m 0mv> get salmon knapsack
eat salmon
I see nothing like that in the knapsack.

<537hp 455m 0mv> You do not have that item.

<537hp 455m 0mv> g skin knapsack
drink skin
put skin knapsack
You get a water skin from a cowhide knapsack.

<537hp 455m 0mv> You drink water from a water skin.
You do not feel thirsty.

<537hp 455m 0mv> You put a water skin in a cowhide knapsack.

<537hp 455m 0mv> g tartare knapsack
You get blood beast tartare from a cowhide knapsack.

<537hp 455m 0mv> eat tartare
You eat blood beast tartare.
You are no longer hungry.

<537hp 455m 0mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Zlisthjor Claire's Place of Pleasure.
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<537hp 455m 0mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Zlisthjor Claire's Place of Pleasure.
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<537hp 455m 0mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'stone skin' modifies armor class by -40 for 4 hours.
Skill: 'chill touch' modifies strength by -1 for 5 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 5 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 2 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 18 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 18 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 12 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies none by 0 for 0 hours.
Spell: 'transform' modifies hp by 970 for 0 hours.

<537hp 455m 0mv> c slow self
You feel yourself moving more slowly.

<537hp 425m 0mv>
You feel less healthy.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Your burning, weeping sores mauls you.
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison injures you.

<499hp 381m -42mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<499hp 381m -42mv> sle
You go to sleep.

<499hp 381m -42mv> gr
Rualamu's group:
<51 Tra> Juxposona 49% hp 34% mana -8% mv 532873 xp
<51 Sha> Feirshay 98% hp 65% mana 52% mv 592634 xp
<51 Con> Rualamu 98% hp 62% mana 91% mv 592073 xp

<499hp 381m -42mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'slow' modifies dexterity by -4 for 17 hours.
Spell: 'stone skin' modifies armor class by -40 for 3 hours.
Skill: 'chill touch' modifies strength by -1 for 4 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 4 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 1 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 17 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 17 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 11 hours.

<499hp 381m -42mv> whe
In your dreams, or what?

<499hp 381m -42mv> gr
Rualamu's group:
<51 Tra> Juxposona 49% hp 34% mana -8% mv 532873 xp
<51 Sha> Feirshay 98% hp 65% mana 41% mv 592634 xp
<51 Con> Rualamu 98% hp 60% mana 91% mv 592073 xp

<499hp 381m -42mv>
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
You shiver and suffer.
Your poison injures you.

<461hp 347m -82mv> gt I am fine, the forgetfulness wore off and I sent him running
You tell your group 'I am fine, the forgetfulness wore off and I sent him running'

<461hp 347m -82mv> whio rim
Huh?

<461hp 347m -82mv> whoi rim
< Arial > (PK) Rimcal the General

<461hp 347m -82mv> gr
Rualamu's group:
<51 Tra> Juxposona 45% hp 31% mana -16% mv 532873 xp
<51 Sha> Feirshay 99% hp 65% mana 43% mv 592634 xp
<51 Con> Rualamu 100% hp 64% mana 100% mv 592073 xp

<461hp 347m -82mv> l
Dark Alley.
This alley is rather gloomy and shady, even during the daylight hours.
The lack of light creates many shadows, making it almost impossible
to see what kind of stains are actually there on the street. Surprisingly
there are a few noises around, and from this you conclude that this alley
isn't empty.



<461hp 347m -82mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<461hp 347m -82mv> sle
You go to sleep.

<461hp 347m -82mv> af
You are affected by:
Spell: 'slow' modifies dexterity by -4 for 16 hours.
Spell: 'stone skin' modifies armor class by -40 for 2 hours.
Skill: 'chill touch' modifies strength by -1 for 3 hours.
Physical malady: 'crimson scourge' modifies strength by -8 for 3 hours.
Skill: 'poison' modifies strength by -5 for 0 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies save vs spell by 14 for 16 hours.
Spell: 'curse' modifies hit roll by -7 for 16 hours.
Spell: 'aura' modifies armor class by -30 for 10 hours.

<461hp 347m -82mv> wake
You wake and stand up.

<461hp 347m -82mv> c 'detect i'
Your eyes tingle.

<461hp 342m -82mv> r
whe
You rest.

<461hp 342m -82mv> People near you:
(PK) Zlisthjor Claire's Place of Pleasure.
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<461hp 342m -82mv> sle
You go to sleep.

<461hp 342m -82mv> gr
Rualamu's group:
<51 Tra> Juxposona 45% hp 31% mana -16% mv 532873 xp
<51 Sha> Feirshay 99% hp 64% mana 43% mv 592634 xp
<51 Con> Rualamu 100% hp 62% mana 100% mv 592073 xp

<461hp 342m -82mv> r
You wake up and start resting.

<461hp 342m -82mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Zlisthjor Dark Alley.
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<461hp 342m -82mv> wake
You stand up.

<461hp 342m -82mv>
You feel less sick.
You howl in pain as blood flows through the pores of your skin.
Your burning, weeping sores mauls you.

<437hp 296m -124mv>
Feirshay tells the group 'Rualamu, ye get it all?'

<437hp 296m -124mv> whe
People near you:
(PK) Zlisthjor Dark Alley.
(PK) Rimcal Within the Warriors Guild
(PK) Juxposona Dark Alley.

<437hp 296m -124mv> c 'halt person' zlisthjor
They aren't here.

<437hp 296m -124mv> c 'halt person' zlisthjor

Zlisthjor has arrived.

<437hp 296m -124mv> Zlisthjor yells 'Die, Juxposona, you sorcerous dog!'
Zlisthjor suddenly stiffens up, his face taut with agony.
Zlisthjor mauls you.
Zlisthjor is convulsing on the ground.

<413hp 256m -124mv> shape lion

Zlisthjor's freezing bite mauls you.
Zlisthjor's freezing bite wounds you.
Zlisthjor parries your punch.
Zlisthjor is convulsing on the ground.

<372hp 256m -124mv>
Rualamu tells the group 'aye, what do you need?'
Zlisthjor is convulsing on the ground.

<372hp 256m -124mv> You flicker and blur into the shape of a lion.
You maintain the hardness of your skin as you shapeshift.
You maintain your speed as you shapeshift.
Zlisthjor is convulsing on the ground.

<372hp 240m -124mv>
Zlisthjor's freezing bite misses you.
Zlisthjor's freezing bite misses you.
Your claw *** DEMOLISHES *** Zlisthjor!
Zlisthjor is DEAD!!
Zlisthjor's hand is sliced from his dead body.

<372hp 240m -124mv> rev

I realize the original post was regarding a shifted shifter and in this log I am not shifted, but had I been shifted it would have been a very quick fight. I was worse off being unshifted.

This necro slept you once, spelled you up and attacked. Once a necro has you asleep, it is possible to keep you asleep. If the necro manages to keep you asleep as a shifter, unless you have group or cabal communication to call help, you are probably dead without any recourse. I realize the shifters solution to this is to ensure that they either aren't slept in the first place or failing that, don't get reslept, but I disagree with the imms as to how easy avoiding being reslept is.

Many smart necros start spamming c sleep when they know the tick you will be waking up is approaching, meaning that the odds of you getting two commands off before they get one sleep off is poor. It really seems to boil down to whether or not you make a save against sleep. The only thing that specifically benefits the shifter over other classes (say giant warrior) in this regard is they are less likely to be looking at nine levels worth of difference.

>Many smart necros start spamming c sleep when they know the
>tick you will be waking up is approaching, meaning that the
>odds of you getting two commands off before they get one sleep
>off is poor.

Has this changed? Last I knew you still got the lag from sleep if you cast it on somebody already slept. Which means that they'll most likely be lagged when the tick hits. They could try spamming time or something and then sleeping immediately when the tick hits, but then it's a latency race. There's no lag on stand. You could definitely get slept for an extra tick or two, but the odds of you being perma-slept are remote.

I feel I am pretty decent at running away/escaping when I need to, and while it doesn't happen often, I have been slept twice with no chance of escape on enough occassion that I would not call it remote.

That said, to address the larger issues here, I don't see a problem with sleep or shifters as is. When a necro gets you slept in a remote area there is a good chance you're gonna die, but as a shifter that should not happen often at that's the balancing right there. If the necro manages it, it is unfortunately the shifters fault for not have detect invis up or checking where often enough.

Both sides of this fight are pretty pathetic. The shifter letting the necro summon/sleep (as has already been discussed) without getting an attack off is rather sad...

That said, the necro was a dee dee dee. It's called energy drain, and it's the bane of shifters. Even if he only hit the one waking (instead of vamp which is useless in this case) and a single other one, the shifter dies.

838 mana when awoken goes to 419.. One more and you're below 200. After that, you're ####ed. Just because this necro was retarded doesn't mean that shifter vs necro = incredibly bad matchup if necro successfuly lands sleep.

Of course the shifter *should* have been able to just run away... forgotten or not. Being in arial city somewhat hurts that possibility, but running to a certain room would certainly make it *extremely* difficult for the necro to do anything meaningful after waking you.

Honestly this is a very poor example of the shifter vs necro matchup unless you are saying that newbie shifter vs newbie necro is indeed unbalanced.