This is more of an idea for conjurer's. I know that we can only have an archon, and an elemental out there at the same time, but why can't we have an angel out there with us? The angel is stronger than the elemental is, or atleast that's what I've learned. THis would be a viable creature to have next to me. Conjurer's aren't the strongest, and being able to have an angel out there with me while I have an archon would kind of help out alot. I know an archon gives us all our spells, so he is a necessity to have out with us. Without the archon, we just get hit hard. I just think we need to be able to conjure up angels with our archons, or make it so that we control our angels like a necro controls his zombies.

I just think we need to have better control over our conjured creatures. Plus, angels are great for fighting, but fighting without an archon is certain death. We have no defensive spells without them.

I just think an angel is our best asset when fighting, but we need the archon for spells. We just need something. I mean we can conjure them up, but we can't have them do anything for us? I can see i can't control a demon, but i'm orderly, and good. I should have control over what I conjure. Just a though.

>This is more of an idea for conjurer's. I know that we can
>only have an archon, and an elemental out there at the same
>time, but why can't we have an angel out there with us? The
>angel is stronger than the elemental is, or atleast that's
>what I've learned. THis would be a viable creature to have
>next to me. Conjurer's aren't the strongest, and being able
>to have an angel out there with me while I have an archon
>would kind of help out alot. I know an archon gives us all our
>spells, so he is a necessity to have out with us. Without the
>archon, we just get hit hard. I just think we need to be able
>to conjure up angels with our archons, or make it so that we
>control our angels like a necro controls his zombies.

Sorry. I'll call #### here. Conjurers are ####ing incredible as is. You're just playing the wrong alignment for them to be beefy in battle.

>I just think we need to have better control over our conjured
>creatures. Plus, angels are great for fighting, but fighting
>without an archon is certain death. We have no defensive
>spells without them.

You have to be on crack if you think that archon/elemental's your only option.

>I just think an angel is our best asset when fighting, but we
>need the archon for spells. We just need something. I mean we
>can conjure them up, but we can't have them do anything for
>us? I can see i can't control a demon, but i'm orderly, and
>good. I should have control over what I conjure. Just a
>though.

Nope. They're amazing as is. You need to explore them a lot more to find their assets and limitations. The aforementioned bitch is a small limitation for the immense power that the conjurer class has as a whole.

I will go ahead and say I have had a few conjurers in the past, 1 hero goodie, 1 near hero evil, and tons of up to lvl45 goodies, neutrals, and evils of most of the available races.

Why is this? In my mind conjurers are a class that take alot of working and tweaking to get just right until they are potentially deadly. Do not worry, about elems at high levels not dishing out suffecient damage. They can dish out two ***DEMOS*** a turn without using vulns near hero. Another thing to remember is what vulns cover what. Just a piece of advice, but using a fire elem specifically for hunting a felar may seem a bit of a waste, when you can use a water elem that hits the vulns of a dwarf, felar, and arial, and an earth elem on svirfs, gnomes. Also I do not know if you have gotten this far, but look into the use of the 'Elem' command. With this you may find Air Elems to be your best new friend.

The beauty of the conjurer class is playing with mana numbers to see what you get. With a set charisma and level you should consistantly conjure a particular type of elem/angel/archon/devil. (Caveat, the most mana you can put into a conjure is not always the best, and find the magical mana numbers, they exist!) The demon is the exception to this rule, but their relative power is still affected directly by mana put into the conjure. Demons also have the fun fun bonus of trying to figure out what in the world keeps them happy, and which one is ideal for what. Just because it is a higher ranked demon does not nessecarilly mean it is ideal for all situations.

The last thing I wish to bring to your attention that you might hear people speak about later is the use of an unbound angel/demon with a bound elem & Archon. THIS IS HIGHLY DANGEROUS! I cannot stress that enough. But if you are with a summoning class, or when using night gaunts this can be gross. Angels and demons generally have a specified class they will jump on if unbound, and those classes tend to be the opposite-alignment alignment-only classes(i.e. demons jump on paladins/shamans... angels shamans/aps/necros) The problem with attempting to use this tactic is most of these classes can summon you away from your circle and your conjure will follow and I believe normally attack you first. It was better in the days of warlock with the ward that did not allow you to be summoned.. But anyways this is always a tactic that can be attempted and I have seen still used to some success in raid situations.

Truely the last thing, I have a successful character going now, and thinking about conjurers is wanting me to delete and roll a new one... Damn You!

Or whatever it is that conjurers get prevents being summoned.

The only warning I would have about deny summoning is being careful you do not screw yourself into not being able to get away quickly with a word or teleport.

The angel is stronger than the elemental is, or atleast that's what I've learned.

This is generally true, and why a conjurer is competitive with one elemental and one second-tier (angel/archon/demon/devil), yet would be dominant with two second-tier servitors.

I just think we need to be able to conjure up angels with our archons, or make it so that we control our angels like a necro controls his zombies.

Having a servitor that makes its own decisions and chooses from a list of possible abilities is often a lot better than having a zombie that does very little besides fight and/or rescue. Remember that command denial is brutal to a necromancer, but not so much against a conjurer.

You're vastly overrating zombies, by the way. A necromancer with no zombies is a threat, and sometimes the zombies aren't worth the hassle of toting them around. (We had one lich who never used undead servants, and he did quite well.) The necromancer has a host of powerful combat spells available. Animate Dead is a useful spell, but not crucial.

On the other hand, a high-level conjurer with no servitors is lunchmeat. They have a couple of combat spells, none of which are a serious threat to a high-level adventurer. A conjurer with an angel and an elemental, however, can dish out a ton of damage, and it's a great combination from an offensive mindset.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

Ok, I see what you are saying. Also, yes, I know when I have no servitors out there, i am "lunchmeat." Found that out a couple of times.

But honestly, give me your opinion. How tough will it be to beat a high ranking Conjurer who has an Archon and an elemental out in front of him? The elemental can be of anything. I know if the elemental is fire, and I fight a felar, I would win. But, what if the elemental is earth and fighting a human, i dont know.

Do archons fight as much as devils do? I know devils dont heal, but what exactly besides heal, bless, sanc do archons give out? Do they use powerful spells during combat?

Just curious, because I can't get to the rank of the archons yet. i am trying though.

But is an archon and elemental infront of a conjurer going to be tough to beat? Any conjurers know?

>But honestly, give me your opinion. How tough will it be to
>beat a high ranking Conjurer who has an Archon and an
>elemental out in front of him?

Define beat.

A conjurer with an archon, one on one, is not going to rack up a lot of kills. They aren't likely to ever kill someone who is any good.

However, they're also one of the toughest things to kill. In most situations a conjurer with an archon is a strong defender, and in some they are the best defensive character possible.

No offense, but you're clearly a newbie to this class and you're not in a good position to be making game balance calls.

>This is more of an idea for conjurer's. I know that we can
>only have an archon, and an elemental out there at the same
>time, but why can't we have an angel out there with us?

It'd be like giving all good shapeshifters a liger crossbred
with sand lizards (the fearsome sliger).

Qaledus

.

You need more transmuters to chant with you in the market square.

Conjurers have a bit higher than average learning curve, and this may be the reason you're having a bit of trouble with them. But, to put a conjurer with the ability to conjure an archon and angel together, in the hands of a more skilled conjurer player.....well lets just say the outcome would be quite overpowered. Hang in there man, and get a feel for the strengths and weaknesses of the class. Before long I'm sure you'll be able to do more.

Ok, I see what you are saying. I do understand that an angel is incredibly strong, but what i dont get is why can't we control them. I know an angel will rescue on it's own sometimes, but not always. I'm not complaining by any means, because I like conjurer's, they are kind of fun. But, If i can conjure up something, and I am of the same alignment that it is, shouldn't I be able to have it do more things? I mean I did see a thiefs nightwalker start a fight with a warrior and conjurer. Do they have control over their nightwalkers?

ALso, just a question, but why do other classes, and classes that are not even magi, get to walk around with conjured creatures? I know it's something that is for a guild, but I thought us conjurers were the only ones who could conjure up stuff. I didn't expect to see a assassin, or a thief running around with a nightwalker. All the skills of assassins and thiefs and they get a conjured creature too?

It's true, I do not know how strong this nightwalker is, but I watched it attack a conjurer with an elemental, and a dwarf warrior, and made them both flee. That's what I saw.

yes, I am a newbie to this class, and I thank you for not coming out and cursing me because I am a newbie. I am learning everyday what it takes to be a good conjurer. Even when a bard does an area spell that my angel doesn't like, and my angel goes after him. I then try and dismiss the angel, and he turns around and rips me a new one. Gotta love it. Plus, he walks faster than i do, heh.

Anyways, what about controlling them to do more things, that's what I would like to know. Or maybe have them rescue me when i'm being attacked more. My angel hasn't rescued me yet. I hope one day he will :)

>I did see a thiefs nightwalker start a fight with a warrior
>and conjurer. Do they have control over their nightwalkers?

No more than you'd have over your servitors, and possibly less.

>ALso, just a question, but why do other classes, and classes
>that are not even magi, get to walk around with conjured
>creatures?

It's an ability of the Scion cabal.

>It's true, I do not know how strong this nightwalker is, but I
>watched it attack a conjurer with an elemental, and a dwarf
>warrior, and made them both flee. That's what I saw.

The problem here is that this anecdote doesn't account for any number of variables, such as how ready each side is for the fight and how good the players in question are.

Conjurers are nicely set up to deal with nightwalkers.

For one thing, Dismissal.

>yes, I am a newbie to this class, and I thank you for not
>coming out and cursing me because I am a newbie.

We won't curse you, but we will tell you when we think you're wrong. :)