I'd say that the cf population is too thinly spread right now.

Therefore I suggest that the southern (Seantryn etc) and eastern (Arkham) suffer a natural disaster which makes them inaccessible.

I know that this would suck for the people who created areas located in these places, and I'm not suggesting it because there's anything wrong with those areas in particular. Downsizing always hurts, but you gotta be able to do it when resources run thin. I'd be all for reinstating them when the avg. online players grow by some 50%, but right now there's just not enough interaction.

You're assuming everyone plays the game from a PK perspective when you suggest this. Of the usual four archetypes that people divide MUDders into, you'd be harming the Explorers and Achievers (fewer places, fewer quests, less equipment, decreased ranking choice, etc.) to questionably benefit the Killers. (I say questionably because by sharply cutting areas, you also sharply cut equipment, preps, etc. that factor in, lowering complexity.)

On the short list of area management, however, is some area consolidation. Over the past couple years, we've merged a number of very small areas (ex-cabals, old shrines, etc.) into their logical parent areas, gradually lowering our area count despite some development. There's more to be done there, and I just got permission from a couple people to keep working on that. We've also prioritized our area development somewhat towards replacements/upgrades rather than pure expansions.

I don't foresee us ever doing large cuts of the kind you suggest, however.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

****We've also prioritized our area development somewhat towards replacements/upgrades rather than pure expansions.****

Does this statement include a revamp of Arial city? Lord knows that arials could use some better gear, and a revamp of this area would be the perfect way to incorporate some of this into the game.

Yes, it's on the list for either removal or replacement.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com

How long has it been on that list now? =P

Longer then many other currently active areas have even existed. :P

Hopefully a touching-up of the room and mob descs moreso than a completely new layout.

Yes, more arial gear would be awesome.

>> You're assuming everyone plays the game from a PK perspective when you suggest this. Of the usual four archetypes that people divide MUDders into, you'd be harming the Explorers and Achievers (fewer places, fewer quests, less equipment, decreased ranking choice, etc.) to questionably benefit the Killers. (I say questionably because by sharply cutting areas, you also sharply cut equipment, preps, etc. that factor in, lowering complexity.)

I've done that test. They told me that the socializers would hate me, and that I might have problems with the Achievers.

And while I don't think some less areas would make a noticable impact on the complexity of the game, the Cabdru trap I planned would be rendered useless.

>> I don't foresee us ever doing large cuts of the kind you suggest, however.

Color me surprised.

What test are you talking about?

I don't remember the name of the test or the address, it was a long time ago. But it's like a personality test, multiple-choice questions and it checks which type of player you are: achiever, killer, explorer or socialiser i think the categories are.

Edit: I found the test, but apparently it's down at the moment. Here's the address in case it goes online again: http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/

The site also has some interesting resources on player types.

www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm

Is another site from the same author that also discusses these types and their relations.

NT

To the extent that sitting at th cross roads isn't a panaramic Battlerager make out spot?

Just a thought.

While this makes a certain amount of sense from a never ending war PK perspective, this idea would only hurt the other aspects of the game that people enjoy. Believe it or not, not everyone plays this game just to mass murder people. A lot of people really enjoy exploration. Some of the best, most interesting areas of the game are on these continents. (Tower of Trothan, Elven Vaults, etc)

Also, keep in mind the PK aspects of the game this would affect. Think about if there were only two places for Nightgaunts instead of four? How about teleport? Gate?

Just a few thoughts, I can't imagine the game getting anything but bigger from here on out.

I assume what you are looking for is to increase pk opportunities, and decrease areas that are completely safe merely because they are out of the way. Increase the scope of where so that it covers a greater number of areas and people are easier to find.

Either that or enforce the rule that all hero level characters must spend at least 25% of their time in the "Granaak-Rager Box of Death" or lose skills, spells, and supps for being chicken####s.

>> I assume what you are looking for is to increase pk opportunities, and decrease areas that are completely safe merely because they are out of the way. Increase the scope of where so that it covers a greater number of areas and people are easier to find.

I like that too. Maybe make where 'target' cover a much larger area while regular where stay the same.

Could also some shops offer 'eyes of intrigue' service at an affordable price.

I don't think that if the idea is to get new players that this is a good idea. Having someone log on, get ranked to PK and die repeatedly crossing the eastern road, trying* to make it to the Inn, etc. will help anything. One of our claims to fame is the incredible number of original rooms and areas that we have.

Now, if the idea is to spice up the brawls that heros are having, then sure, this is one possibility. So is helping other people to get to hero. So is advertising so that new players join our once-and-for-all playerbase (hooked on C-Fonics). So is sending someone a casual tell or six after you've killed them, and not looting them and stepping into the shadows.

What it boils down to in my opinion is this: Everyone wants more players but many people currently blame the game and the system. If you want people to overcome the learning curve, show them a few things. It doesn't have to be charity work. "I'll show you this or that area but I need you to come with me to get XXX item elsewhere and we may both die." You can trade preparation locations with certain people, it's easy to tell who is going to blab. I personally love working with newbies and I seem to have no problem finding people to interact with. I also feel like the ones we help are the ones that will stay. Many of the changes to CF in past years have been newbie-friendly without being overtly devastating to the seasoned veterans. The Academy itself is a perfect example. It's also the reason that I won't ask people to rank until they pass the cut-off there, because although it may save me an hour over the character's life, if I wait until they ask me or are too high to go in, at least I know they had their chance.

Conclusions: Closing continents and areas is extremism. It's like saying that since there's not enough gold in the CF economy that storeowners should give things away for free until people have 50% more gold on hand and in the bank. Address the problem, not the temporary and harmful "solution"

IMO.

>> I don't think that if the idea is to get new players that this is a good idea. Having someone log on, get ranked to PK and die repeatedly crossing the eastern road, trying* to make it to the Inn, etc. will help anything. One of our claims to fame is the incredible number of original rooms and areas that we have.

>> Now, if the idea is to spice up the brawls that heros are having, then sure, this is one possibility. So is helping other people to get to hero. So is advertising so that new players join our once-and-for-all playerbase (hooked on C-Fonics). So is sending someone a casual tell or six after you've killed them, and not looting them and stepping into the shadows.

I wasn't saying that we shouldn't try to get new players and keep them from leaving - that is already being done. If you have any ideas on how it can be done better, please go ahead and share them. But until that happens, the change would provide enough actions to keep myself (and others like me if there are any) interested.

And about making people not be full looting multikilling assholes, I've been advocating that behavior for years. I generally send tells to people appearing to be newbies I kill to help them make an action plan to get of my hitlist. The problem is, many people think that multikilling, looting and saccing eq is vital to their roleplay and the integrity of their characters.

>> What it boils down to in my opinion is this: Everyone wants more players but many people currently blame the game and the system. If you want people to overcome the learning curve, show them a few things. It doesn't have to be charity work. "I'll show you this or that area but I need you to come with me to get XXX item elsewhere and we may both die." You can trade preparation locations with certain people, it's easy to tell who is going to blab. I personally love working with newbies and I seem to have no problem finding people to interact with. I also feel like the ones we help are the ones that will stay. Many of the changes to CF in past years have been newbie-friendly without being overtly devastating to the seasoned veterans. The Academy itself is a perfect example. It's also the reason that I won't ask people to rank until they pass the cut-off there, because although it may save me an hour over the character's life, if I wait until they ask me or are too high to go in, at least I know they had their chance.

So blame the players instead? :p

But the fact is, if you want people to be less assholish, there needs to be incentives. Games like cf attracts a certain kind of people, and some of them are quite rotten.

>> Conclusions: Closing continents and areas is extremism. It's like saying that since there's not enough gold in the CF economy that storeowners should give things away for free until people have 50% more gold on hand and in the bank.

Lol that places way up in my mental list of bad analogies. Right below the one where my grandmother dissed my girlfriend because she worked for a TV station but couldn't fix my grannie's broken TV.

>> Address the problem, not the temporary and harmful "solution"

Huh? that doesn't make sense.

I think that you're on crack, but, have a good heart. Read on and I'll explain why.

I do blame the playerbase. I also know that there have been characters, even ragers, to find me exploring some of the most obscure areas in the game. It isn't too hard to find someone in the frigid wastelands, but what about sirine island? Still, most of the areas that are untraveled are so for a good reason. Nobody spends 6 hours at a time in sirine. Maybe 1.

So I'm entirely for the idea of you being able to hire out a shapeshifter that will tell you 1: If the person is visible from the skies, after a few hours of delay, and-or 2: Which continent the person is on. That should really be enough for you to narrow down searches if you're just looking for PK. Or on a flipside, hiring an assassin or thief network to locate someone for you. It would add alot to the gameplay, but would be more difficult to balance than not adding it.

Now my assumption was that you wanted people in MS Galadon again yelling 'Level 15 looking for 3rd ok kewl' and for that you need more players.

Honestly, I look back over the years and see a general trend in decreased deathfulness but I don't think it's because of area size. The 100 killer in '98 is probably a 50 killer now. Why? Balance, spreading of knowledge, increased avg_player_skill. There _are_ less players and there _are_ more areas, but there still _are_ tons of fights going on and typically these _are_ in the same areas that they have always been in. I'm not really sure I agree with you about the problem here, Marcus.

To be clear: I am 110% against your idea of how to fix what we're talking about.

PS:
Let's double the money you find on mobs instead of cutting costs, to make it easier to gather coins but you still do have to work for them. Then when there are enough people with coins, I'll be happy and we can switch it back to the way things were and it will just work out.

This is a closer analagy to what you said. I was being dramatic and I apologize.

>> Or on a flipside, hiring an assassin or thief network to locate someone for you. It would add alot to the gameplay, but would be more difficult to balance than not adding it.

Hehe, everything is more difficult to balance than doing nothing.

>> Now my assumption was that you wanted people in MS Galadon again yelling 'Level 15 looking for 3rd ok kewl' and for that you need more players.

Don't assume too much.

>> Honestly, I look back over the years and see a general trend in decreased deathfulness but I don't think it's because of area size. The 100 killer in '98 is probably a 50 killer now. Why? Balance, spreading of knowledge, increased avg_player_skill. There _are_ less players and there _are_ more areas, but there still _are_ tons of fights going on and typically these _are_ in the same areas that they have always been in. I'm not really sure I agree with you about the problem here, Marcus.

It's not all about the pk. I would just like to meet other players more frequently when I'm playing. Even if I'm not gonna PK them, I like the tension and interaction. But it's a fact that the life of my last few characters have been less action-packed than that of the ones I had around 2002-2003. And when i first got started in '98, I could almost be sure to get a few pks by running emerald-galadon-FoN.

>> To be clear: I am 110% against your idea of how to fix what we're talking about.

I expected 99% of the people here to be against it. ;) But you never told you why you think I'm on crack :(

If you took the time to explore all of those far-out areas, you'd realize that there are French and British nuclear power plants underlying the tide and turn of Thera and that one nuke to the east or one to the south or both would start a chain reaction thus ending the game that we love to play. That's what I meant about crack. Oh, and the more-is-better principle of economics. We have more areas and more rooms and more to do, so we are better.

And to address your point about action, I agree. But as I said I see the problem differently. I can typically rank to 40 before someone tries to PK me while I rank these days. In the same places that I did 8 years ago, when you started. So yes, while I find the game to be less action-packed, I do feel like people are actually roleplaying more. Emotes, esays, roles, slurs other than "meh big ####ing kill you" are all typical things now. Also since swearing stopped being standard evil norm, we have alot more "intriguing" and "interesting" that at least makes it _look_ like the evils are plotting, even though they're just team evil all too often. Basically, the RP/PK environment is starting to sway from making RP to justify PKing towards RP that explains and determines PKing. It's a fine difference, but it makes a major impact.

See you out there. Good to know I'm not the only one still looking in E-F-G. PS - I still find people there. But only during certain hours of the day.

"But the fact is, if you want people to be less assholish, there needs to be incentives."

I could not agree with this statement any more. The fact is, since PBF's came in, I've not seen a better change in player attitude, I've seen a worse one. Everyone wants to rack up the 200+ pk count and gives no ####s about who/when/how they got it.

Maybe I am just a jaded cynic these days.

The fact is, since PBF's came in, I've not seen a better change in player attitude, I've seen a worse one.

The PBFs don't only discuss kill counts-- the comments section often says a lot about the kind of character that was played. I think it's fashionable to pine for a golden age, but frankly even a few years ago there was a lot more grief-oriented play.

I don't think you in particular want to go down the road of complaining about player attitudes. You might ask yourself why you change handles as often as you do (or review more or less any log of one of your characters dying) before throwing stones. You might think they're assholes for killing your characters, but I can't imagine they think well of you after hearing one of your post-death tantrums.

Overall, I think the playerbase as a whole has made positive strides regarding how they treat one another. However, certain notable exceptions exist, and as you know we speak to them often.

valguarnera@carrionfields.com